Could T be right?

Not sure what I need from posting this, except maybe some support in that I'm going through a tough time right now.

I had lunch with my Mom today, and afterwards, I was so upset that I called my T. I left her a message and she called me back a couple hours later.

As I was telling T about my interaction with my Mom, she said that she feels that my relationship with my Mom is so unhealthy and almost toxic. This had me in tears. I KNOW my relationship with my mom isn't great, and I also know that it's my fault. So, if it's really toxic, is it because of me? (I know none of you can answer this...it's more rhetorical...it's how I feel, it's how I'm questioning myself). Am I the one destroying my relationship with my Mom? Shouldn't I be glad that she wants to spend time with me, that she wants to do things with me, that she says she loves me and cares about me? T says I'm just repeating things I've heard and I don't even sound present when I repeat those things. I've always been told how lucky I am to have my Mom, but I don't feel lucky. I feel suffocated. I feel wrong. My relationship with my Dad is a little better, but that's only been in the last few years. Why can't I have the same relationship with my Mom that I have with my Dad?

Anyway, I was so hurt to hear T say that my relationship sounds toxic. I think I was hurt because it really felt true. But, I also know that I could try to change things if I really wanted to, I just don't have the courage to do it. I'm terrified of upsetting my Mom - I don't want to deal with the fallout. Because, upsetting her is always my fault. I don't know how to explain that to T. I know she thinks that is a cognitive distortion, maybe it is...

I had a hard time after that, telling T what was really going on. I couldn't tell her that I'm feeling suicidal. I trust her, but I simply couldn't admit to the depth of my emotions. I needed her to be there for me, and she was, but I also desperately needed her to be a mind reader, which I know is totally not fair. I just wish I could explain to her how I feel right now.

Honesty is so incredibly hard to hear. I send you so many hugs right now. I think your therapist means we'll in what she said, she sounds like she has your interests at heart

Process what she has said and write down everything you feel about it. In a few days revisit what you wrote and see if you feel the same.

You want to protect your mum so badly and that is admirable but don't discount what your T has to say. She is not trying to hurt you but to help you. If you can then email her and just tell her you feel so unsafe since everything happened. I'm sure she will respond.

I don't know anything about the relationship with your mom, but I wonder why you jump to taking 100% of the blame. There's generally a give-and-take in most relationships, and no one side can take all the blame (though often times a lot of it lands on one side). Knowing that your T says you have a lot of cognitive distortions around things, I wonder if taking the blame for the relationship doesn't fall under that category. Others claiming you should feel lucky to have your mom doesn't necessarily reflect on the way you & your mom interact, but more on their perceptions of mothers in general, and on what they see happening out in the open. People tell me I am lucky to have such a generous and loving father, but they don;t see all the abuse and manipulation that goes on behind the scenes. It doesn't mean it's not happening, just means they are not privy to it.
I'm sorry you are struggling so much with all this right now. (hugs) Can you reach out to your T again and maybe tell her more of how all this makes you feel (tell her about the sui)? I think it would be good for her to know...

Thanks for the support guys.

ThisWayOut - you're right - I did need to let T know about the sui feelings. I just sent her a text telling her that when I left her the message, that's how I was feeling, but the feeling is starting to fade.

I meet with her on Thursday, and I know we'll talk about all this. I just am not in a good place right now. Haven't been for a while. I don't know how to explain it to my T. She asks me what "not in a good place" means and I freeze. I can't expand on it. I don't want to expand on that.

I think I'm going to journal about how my T's comment about my Mom made me feel, as well as how my relationship with my Mom makes me feel. Maybe I can gain some clarity in the next couple of days.

I'm going through a similar thing. It does hurt a lot when our t's say negative things about our families. I spent a lot of last night crying and hugging my teddy bear. I know how you feel.

I know I have a toxic relationship with my mother, and yes, I am responsible for a part of it, but I learned about this relationship from how my mother treated me as I was growing up.

When I was diagnosed with my mental illnesses I did not tell her and I told my siblings to not tell her. It wasn't until after 9 years of therapy that I finally told her and I did so in my therapist's office, knowing what her response would be. And do you want to know what her response was? It wasn't "Oh no, what can I do to help?" It wasn't "I'm so sorry." It was "Why are you just now telling me?" It was "Why did you tell your brother and sisters before me?" It was her go to phrase, "Because I am your mother!" She continued to be defensive when I told her it was genetic, that I inherited this. She remained there for the remainder of that conversation.

She tried to remind me of how "wonderful" our relationship was when I was a child. I wanted to tell her "Our wonderful relationship was based on my trying to get her attention."

People also tell me how lucky I am to have her as my mother, but they don't have a mother/daughter relationship with her, they weren't raised by her, they have a friendship. Not the same.

You may have a small, even tiny, role in your relationship, but we learn from our parents. We may have an innate ideal of what we want our relationship to be and that we may believe "we" are responsible for that relationship, but that's not realistic. Relationships work both ways, more so parent when it's a parent/child relationship.

Yes, it is great that she wants to spend time with you. My mother would love it. But what's the quality of that time you spend with her.

Try to not be so hard on yourself. Try to take a hard look at how you were raised, what your relationship was really like with your mom as a child. Be open to what your therapist has to say. She has learned about you from all the sessions you've had with her. She sees things differently based on what you have discussed with her. I believe our therapists understand us better than we understand ourselves.

Your mom sounds narcissistic and maybe your T is picking up on that.

Sigh - I dunno. I know my childhood was kinda messed up - alcoholic Dad, enabling Mom, brother that constantly acted out, and I was the responsible one, the peacekeeper, my Mom's confidant, my brother's confidant, my Dad's "buddy." I was everything for everyone...except me.

My Mom doesn't really fit a lot of the narcissistic characteristics, but then others fit her to a T. Everything eventually comes back to her, even when it's not about her. I know that she has her own severe issues from childhood. I know that she has things that have happened in her adult life that have been difficult or traumatic. I know that she probably needs years of intensive therapy to get through them all. I just don't want to add on to that, so I stay silent and just try to keep the peace. My job in the family has always been the peacekeeper.

If I told my Mom about my anxiety and other issues, she'd either dismiss it as "everyone has problems" or she'd blow it out of proportion and say something like "I'm so sorry, it's my fault, I'm a horrible mother. I didn't realize things were so bad for you." and then we'd commence with non-stop calling to check on me or something. I never know which reaction I'm going to get with her. It's always either a complete under or over reaction and never supportive of me. She throws tantrums and gives guilt trips when she doesn't get what she wants.

And yet, she's a very giving person, always wanting to help me out, help others out. She always compliments me, says how much she loves spending time with me, buys me stuff just because she knows I like it. She says I'm her best friend. She's certainly not mine! But it would hurt her so much if I ever told her that.

I really need to talk to T more about this. i already have a full agenda for this week, but some of it may just have to be put to the side.

BlessedRhiannon - I wish I had some words of wisdom here. Mom stuff is so difficult to get our heads around. I am sorry you're in pain and struggling, and also that your whole family used you as a confidant without really letting you be yourself. That's not fair

Oh gosh, this jumped out at me. Any time you feel terrified of upsetting someone... that should probably be a big red flag about the relationship. (Sorry.) I also can't buy into it always being your fault. Your mom is a grown-up, even with a horrible past, she's got to take responsibility for her stuff... It's truly amazing and awesome and wonderful that you have so much compassion for her, but... how about some compassion for *you*?

Hang in there... and please take care of yourself! ((hugs))

Thanks - this (having compassion for myself) is something I'm working on with T. I don't actually really know how to do it. I don't even know what it would look or feel like. I have compassion for others, I beat myself up...that's the way it's always been, but I'm working on changing it.

Thinking of you Rhi. I relate to this so much. I am sorry I don't have anything constructive to add - but i do relate. Take good care of yourself. Please keep posting.

i have a difficult relationship with my mom. everything is about her. when she was confronted with my depression for the first time, she made it about *her* (ooooh, my daughter haaaates me - when in fact, she was suffocating me by making me listen to all her problems). Then she got enraged when I didn't comfort her and became angry, yelling at me.

so. i don't talk to her about deep things and i live far away. i don't blame myself for this relationship. *she* behaved a certain way towards me and i have had to put in very heavy boundaries to keep myself safe from her over-emoting and trying to get me to be her emotional crutch. i have to deal with my anger against her (because it's not productive for me anymore - it used to cocoon me and protect me), but this is the relationship she built - i had to build the walls because she couldn't step back.

just food for thought. you taking all the blame doesn't sound right.

I felt the same as you...if something went wrong it was because of me. And I struggled with letting go of that, but with therapy I was able to accept that things happen and they aren't always my fault. Now when something happens I really take a look at it for what role I might have played in it. Most times, its not me.

I wonder if your mom saw you as her friend as apposed to her child while you were younger. That creates an unhealthy relationship. You were the peacemaker. That shouldn't be the role of a child. That she buys you things may be her thoughtfulness or may be her way of trying to be the mother she wasn't. These things can't fix your relationship.

You may want to talk to your T about how to re-parent yourself so your inner child can let go of these ideals and thoughts. When I started this process, I used of picture of me as a little girl and I talked to her, I wrote letters to her in my journal. I looked for ways I could connect with my little girl.

Keep at it. It is hard, but it is worth it.

I get it, but it makes me feel a bit sad... you derserve compassion too!

One thing I've heard is to think about a situation you are in, and imagine what you'd say to someone that you really care about (a best friend, child, sibling) if they were in the same situation. How would you feel if they were in this situation, and what would you advise them? Sometimes that sense of distance can make things a little more clear.

Some of the things that I think of, when I think about being compassionate toward myself, are:

- Not beating myself up over mistakes. Humans make mistakes. True mistakes aren't malicious and don't make me "bad", they're *mistakes*.

(Note: Someone here... I think it was NoWhereUSA?... has mentioned using DBT several times, and the "non-judgemental" part of it. I think that could be fantastically helpful here... sometimes we do things that we don't like or that don't get us the results we want... maybe part of compassion is not judging ourselves, and instead accepting what "is", and working from there to make better decisions/actions in the future?)

- Not committing to things that I have no desire to do, just to make other people happy. (I think it's totally fine to do something to help someone you care about, even if it's not something you'd normally "want" to do - as long as its your *choice*, not something you're made to feel guilty about not doing!)

- Not doing things that make me feel unsafe. Sometimes this is hard, especially for me when I feel like I'm not being reasonable. But for example, I haven't visited my mom in... a really long time. She's moved out to a ranch that's literally 2 hours from the nearest city, and her husband scares me a little bit. It might not be reasonable, it might just be me being uncomfortable - it certainly makes my mom unhappy. But nope, I don't feel good about going out there, sorry mom.

- Taking care of yourself: physically, emotionally, whatever else. Sometimes this means blowing off cleaning the bathroom to get some extra sleep, because you're tired and need it! Sometimes it means spending money to get a nice dinner out, because you're too tired/overwhelmed to cook and need something nourishing. Sometimes it means crashing out and watching DVDs in bed. What you consider "taking care of" you might be different than mine.

- Not taking responsibility for others' feelings when my actions aren't unreasonable. I totally believe that if I'm acting in a way that is hurtful or not ok, that I need to take responsibility for that (and apologize, and fix it). I guess it's a fine line - since it's always open to the question of what is reasonable? But for most things... I accept that I'm allowed to have my own opinions and actions, and if somebody (like your mom) gets upset - hey, that's THEIR issue, not mine! And, they're a grown-up, they can figure it out. I don't need to change my behavior to fit somebody elses' unrealistic expectations.

Hmm... I'm not sure what else, or if that's helpful... I'm still figuring this stuff out too, and do find it hard sometimes. Good luck!

OP, I really feel for you. I can definitely relate a lot to this. One time my T called me out on my constant defending and protecting of my mom. She told me that I need to have more compassion for myself, and to remember that her issues with me are her own and not mine. *hugs* I know it's hard. Take care, OP.

I really appreciate all the feedback and support. I ended up taking the day off of work - I just couldn't deal with the pressure today. I'm not going to do anything harmful, though. I have dinner plans with a friend tonight, therapy tomorrow, and an event all weekend starting at noon on Friday. So, I think I'll be safe from harmful urges. I just need to try to figure out where I go from here with my Mom.

It's hard - my brother killed himself 13 years ago. So, it's just me now. When my Dad retired, my parents decided to move closer to me, so now they live just 20 minutes away and always want to spend time with me. I had tried to put physical distance between us by moving to another state almost 10 years ago...only for them to follow me here. There are times I do enjoy interacting with my Mom and Dad, but more often than not, it's just upsetting. I don't want to cut them off, but I need to figure out how to set some real boundaries for our interactions, especially in regards to topics of conversation.