[shakespeare47]

What do you think? Do you ever feel manipulated to do something, or pressure to change your beliefs because it seems your T is manipulating you?

For instance, I've identified as an atheist for the last year or 2, despite being a Christian for about 40 years... my T has made several comments that lead me to believe he thinks that religions are better....

I've basically convinced myself that despite the fact that T's are supposed to be impartial and objective, they all do have their own belief systems and opinions...

What do you think? Does your T manipulate? How does it make you feel?

[archipelago]

They do have their own beliefs and are entitled to, but they aren't supposed to push it on you and if they do so unintentionally they should be confronted so they stop.

I wouldn't want to go to therapy if I felt manipulated. And I'm very sensitive to that, which is why I don't even like directive therapy. I only respond to non-directive approaches.

That doesn't mean I resist change. It just means that I can't be talked into or manipulated into change.

[NowhereUSA]

no, i don't think my t manipulates me per se (there have been times i've been like 'i'm not talking about x!' and then the conversation naturally ends back up there and i think he probably helped it slightly). i do tease him and tell him he plays professional mind games he has a good sense of humor though.

[shakespeare47]

Originally Posted by archipelago

They do have their own beliefs and are entitled to, but they aren't supposed to push it on you and if they do so unintentionally they should be confronted so they stop.

I wouldn't want to go to therapy if I felt manipulated. And I'm very sensitive to that, which is why I don't even like directive therapy. I only respond to non-directive approaches.

That doesn't mean I resist change. It just means that I can't be talked into or manipulated into change.

I'm still trying to decide whether or not I think it's an issue. I sometimes wonder if he isn't deliberately making manipulative comments... just to get a reaction out of me... in an attempt to help me think about how I think (does that even make sense?).

[NowhereUSA]

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

I'm still trying to decide whether or not I think it's an issue. I sometimes wonder if he isn't deliberately making manipulative comments... just to get a reaction out me... in an attempt to help me think about how I think (does that even make sense?).

have you called him on it? idk. if my t says something and i'm not sure what he's getting at, i'll just say it. 'like, dude, what are you going on about?'

[shakespeare47]

Originally Posted by NowhereUSA

no, i don't think my t manipulates me per se (there have been times i've been like 'i'm not talking about x!' and then the conversation naturally ends back up there and i think he probably helped it slightly). i do tease him and tell him he plays professional mind games he has a good sense of humor though.

Professional mind games... LOL. I like that.
Being made to talk about something I'm hesitant to talk about is an example of something that does feel very manipulative to me. and I have experienced it on many occasions from every therapist I've ever seen.

[NowhereUSA]

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

Professional mind games... LOL. I like that.
Being made to talk about something I'm hesitant to talk about is an example of something that does feel very manipulative to me. and I have experienced it on many occasions from every therapist I've ever seen.

i guess i don't feel like i'm being made to. he doesn't force the issue - it's more like, the reality is, that deep down i want to talk about it and he knows that (i've seen him for a while, so yes, he's qualified to recognize that in me) and so he's skillful. one day i didn't want to talk about my mother, i said it outright, we started conversing and he never once said a peep about my mom, but he knows i have issues as a result of her and before i knew it, i was bringing up my mother lol. and i ribbed him on it (that's where i first told him he was playing professional mind games).

but i have a really good relationship with my t and all of that is very comfortable and i don't think he's pulling one over on me.

[shakespeare47]

^That's what I mean... they obviously do manipulate.... but, I like to think they do it because they have our best interests in mind... If I didn't feel that way.... then, I wouldn't go back.
But, it's a scary place to be... because it's such an intimate relationship, that they could manipulate us in ways that aren't helpful.... because they are, after all human, and do make mistakes.

[NowhereUSA]

i think that's why boundaries are so important. certainly there are is an abusive minority that exists that use that ability to manipulate to gain something they want (power, etc), but that's where knowing the boundaries can be helpful - so you can recognize the red flags.

my t is super friendly and so in our five years together there have been yellow flags here and there, but they turn out to be nothing, just miscommunication. that's how i protect myself though. and for me, i also do group therapy run by different ts so if he did something i was uncomfortable with and couldn't talk to him about, i could go to someone else.

[archipelago]

There are therapies that are confrontational on purpose. Some that use paradoxes and outrageous things to provoke on purpose. And then the types that challenge patterns of behavior and thinking that are considered "irrational" and need "correcting." I don't like any of these things. They may not be classified as manipulative in the strictest sense of the word, but I would feel some pressure and power issues if that happened and wouldn't feel safe anymore.

There are other ways to approaching things that are gentle and respectful and feel more safe and productive.

[HazelGirl]

Not that I have noticed...? But I haven't tried to read into what she is doing to see if she is manipulating me.

[justaname4me2]

This is something I've just in the past week been working through in my own thoughts and will discuss with T later this week. I am sort of coming to the realization, that what I am so powerfully drawn to isn't about him at all. It's about what he represents and what he provides: patience, kindness, reassurance, calming strength and most of all - acceptance. Is he providing these things for me, not because he genuinely IS patient, kind, etc.. (because he may be a complete jerk outside his office - highly doubtful) but because he knows I have to see, feel and taste that sweetness so I can then offer it to myself when I need it? Is it to 'make' me feel safe? Manipulate (gently) me to feel (something I went into therapy for, because I have been numb and life seems drained of light and color), think and act without having such harsh judgments against myself?

Very T - ricky....

[healed84]

Originally Posted by archipelago

There are therapies that are confrontational on purpose. Some that use paradoxes and outrageous things to provoke on purpose. And then the types that challenge patterns of behavior and thinking that are considered "irrational" and need "correcting." I don't like any of these things. They may not be classified as manipulative in the strictest sense of the word, but I would feel some pressure and power issues if that happened and wouldn't feel safe anymore.

There are other ways to approaching things that are gentle and respectful and feel more safe and productive.

T and I just worked through this problem.. He was being confrontational and be picked the wrong time to do it. He admitted his timing wasn't the best and we moved on. He does these things from time to time.. And I am generally ok with it.

[roimata]

I felt manipulated when she tried guilt-tripping me with all that "suicide is selfish" business. It introduced some shame and guilt related distress I did not have before. Her position as a supposed neutral party was completely compromised by an emotionally minded indiscretion and it was not helpful input in the least.

I told her she was an *** for dropping the ball with that and she accepted the judgment gracefully. She pretty much shot herself in the foot however because I like to think I became notably clever with my wording when sharing suicide related thoughts with her after that.

Tit for tat though – when she tries to mirror me and I notice, I turn it into a game called "but can you do this??"

[stopdog]

They set the entire situation up to be manipulative. That they believe they can act in another's best interest, how they talk, when they talk, what they talk about, how the office is arranged, how one pays, where they sit, the furniture they choose and so on.

[shakespeare47]

^are you currently seeing a T? Why do you put up with it?

[guilloche]

I don't think so. There have been a couple things where I thought he was playing games, but when I asked him, he said... "No, I wouldn't f-- with you". He seemed pretty genuine, so I believe him... but I still ask about stuff that doesn't seem to match up for me, so I can find out what he's thinking.

(First time was when he said to me, "What would you say if I told you you that your family is really f---ed up?" - I asked him at the next session if he really meant my family was screwed up, or if he just said that as a diagnostic tool, since by prefacing it with "what would you say..." he really WASN'T saying it, he was just asking for my opinion!

The second time was when he talked about how important good boundaries were going to be for me to feel safe... and then stuck his feet up on the couch next to me! Yikes. That time he said he was actually feeling like he needed to face me better...)

[Notoriousglo]

Yes I have a serious problem with this...but the funny thing is I can't tell if I'm manipulating them or they are manipulating me...or they think I'm manipulating them, so they are giving me other views to challenge my own...

[shakespeare47]

I think I understand... I've tried to manipulate my T... but, I find he is much better at playing the manipulation "game"... I think because he understands the "game" better than I do.
I'm almost always direct and upfront about what I want.... I sometimes have a hard time dealing with those who aren't.

[archipelago]

Saying that the whole enterprise is manipulative from the furniture on is a bit strong, isn't it? I mean that stretches the word "manipulative" so much that it almost loses its meaning. Everything may have some effect or other, and some may be planned or at least considered. Of course. It wouldn't be therapy if it were just neutral and powerless. What would be the point? Manipulation usually has power and ulterior motives connected to it. Having a red couch instead of a black one seems not to rise to that level.

A somewhat amusing type of manipulation was used by family therapists who called themselves Strategic. They would do paradoxical reverse psychology things to directly manipulative clients into changing and would not say what they were up to. An outrageous example of this was a case where a boy was brought in by his parents for masturbating all the time all over the house.

The therapist started by not telling the boy to stop, but instead by asking him to keep a detailed log of all the places and times. Then the therapist asked which were the best places and times and told the kid to double his efforts!

The kid of course stopped. This treatment is called by the therapists "an ordeal," and is designed to make the cure so unbearable that the original symptom goes away.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by shakespeare47

^are you currently seeing a T? Why do you put up with it?

If you are talking to me, because I find it an interesting experiment. I see two of them. I like to see how they approach things differently.

[shakespeare47]

Originally Posted by archipelago

A somewhat amusing type of manipulation was used by family therapists who called themselves Strategic. They would do paradoxical reverse psychology things to directly manipulative clients into changing and would not say what they were up to. An outrageous example of this was a case where a boy was brought in by his parents for masturbating all the time all over the house.

The therapist started by not telling the boy to stop, but instead by asking him to keep a detailed log of all the places and times. Then the therapist asked which were the best places and times and told the kid to double his efforts!

The kid of course stopped. This treatment is called by the therapists "an ordeal," and is designed to make the cure so unbearable that the original symptom goes away.

That is hilarious! and I can see myself doing something similar.... with the other person's best interests in mind.

[archipelago]

Yeah, a milder and more understandable version also comes from this school. To cure insomnia, a client was told that he should get up and go mop the kitchen floor. He hated that so much that he ended up putting down the mop and going back to bed and falling asleep. People tell versions of that now, like clean out the garage or something else.