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  #26  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 09:30 AM
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Leah123 Leah123 is offline
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I encourage you to discuss it with him: that will give you more information to work with. See if he's defensive, open, concerned about your concerns or dismissive, etc.
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anilam, StarLight25

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  #27  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 10:02 AM
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Leah123 Leah123 is offline
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P.S. You wondered what was making you feel paranoid- you don't sound at all paranoid to me.

It's absolutely reasonable to question the manner in which he's touching you!
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guilloche, StarLight25
  #28  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 10:17 AM
kraken1851 kraken1851 is offline
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I wouldn't ignore the gut feeling and bring it up with him, even though it may be difficult.

When you do, stick to how you feel (i.e. uncomfortable). We sometimes feel uncomfortable with things even though they may be perfectly innocent, thoughtless, or well-intentioned. If you stick to how you feel about/experience these situations, he will understand that you're not criticizing or blaming him. But I think you need to get this out of the way to be able to concentrate fully on therapy again.
Thanks for this!
StarLight25
  #29  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 11:19 AM
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precaryous precaryous is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarLight25 View Post
Thank you everyone for the replies.

No, my T has never asked me how I feel about touch by him or anyone, and we have never discussed boundaries.

I feel very conflicted. On one hand I feel very supported by my T, but on the other hand I'm worrying that something isn't right. I don't know if it's my history making me paranoid, or the things I read on here.

The only other thing I did not mention is he offered to add a third session a week for a very reduced rate, because I'm processing some difficult things right now. When I declined due to financial reasons, he offered it for free. I thanked him and said I would think about it. I don't know if that's a red flag?

My gut is telling me something seems off, just because I've worked with him for awhile and none of these things were ever issues. I felt like I had a very strong (safe) connection, but now I don't know.
Offering a session discount or even seeing a client for free, by itself, is not necessarily unethical. But when you combine it with the other issues you mention, it would be a red flag for me.

Are you the last patient of his day, by any chance?

Please listen to your gut that something is off.

You have a right to your own boundaries. If you are not comfortable with all this touching, please tell him. Notice how he reacts.
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom, StarLight25
  #30  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 11:23 AM
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Lauliza Lauliza is offline
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Personally, I find it very inappropriate and yes he is crossing the line. I actually find it creepy, especially the massage. Maybe I'm uptight, I don't think therapists should initiate hugs at all unless it's a termination session, a congratulations on a big accomplishment, or something of that sort.

Always listen to your instinct - if you find yourself asking if something is out of line, it probably is. You should tell him how you feel, that is your right as the client to not be touched. And please, don't let him try to tell you this resistance means anything more than it does. Not wanting his hands on you is perfectly normal and does not mean that something is "wrong" with you or that it's a sign of something that needs to be explored in therapy. Touch is not something you should expect from your T , male or female and he should respect your boundaries.

I don't think the free session is necessarily a red flag, but considering the circumstances and how it makes you feel, I would be hesitant. Again, it is your choice as to how often you see your therapist. When a T pressures you into going for more sessions than you want or need, that can be considered unethical.
Thanks for this!
feralkittymom, StarLight25
  #31  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 11:34 AM
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lunatic soul lunatic soul is offline
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Maybe.
I would never let someone touch me if I wouldnt want it just because he said please hug me esspecially some creepy therapist (except if I wanted it).
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StarLight25
  #32  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 01:47 PM
StarLight25 StarLight25 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
Offering a session discount or even seeing a client for free, by itself, is not necessarily unethical. But when you combine it with the other issues you mention, it would be a red flag for me.

Are you the last patient of his day, by any chance?

Please listen to your gut that something is off.

You have a right to your own boundaries. If you are not comfortable with all this touching, please tell him. Notice how he reacts.
I'm not sure if I am his last patient. My appointment is at 4pm both days, however my sessions run over regularly by 15-30 minutes, and there has never been anyone in the waiting room.
  #33  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 02:12 PM
RedSun RedSun is offline
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I think therapy is a place we need to feel safe, as safe as possible.
If he is making you feel uneasy, then you won't feel safe.
It doesn't really matter if he's being inappropriate (though personally I think it sounds as though he is!) if you are feeling uncomfortable and compromised in any way then you need to change the situation, or move on. Hugs xxx
  #34  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 02:30 PM
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Yeah like Leah says, just discuss it with him. We can keep speculating and give opinions but this is not going to help you figure this out. This is not something that happened in the past that we can only speculate on, it's your current relationship and best thing is bring it up wit him and go from there.
  #35  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 02:31 PM
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It's hard to say, but I definitely think that he borders on crossing the line.
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  #36  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 02:32 PM
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Silent Void Silent Void is offline
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I think if you're questioning it then it's inappropriate. You're clearly uncomfortable with it.
  #37  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 02:34 PM
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growlycat growlycat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarLight25 View Post
Thank you everyone for the replies.

The only other thing I did not mention is he offered to add a third session a week for a very reduced rate, because I'm processing some difficult things right now. When I declined due to financial reasons, he offered it for free. I thanked him and said I would think about it. I don't know if that's a red flag?

.
It worries me that a free session may leave you feeling like you "owe him". It could be grooming for other boundary violations.
Thanks for this!
Bells129, Gavinandnikki, Leah123, precaryous
  #38  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 04:03 PM
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SoupDragon SoupDragon is offline
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Would freak me out - if it's him asking for the hug and not you, wonder who this is helping the most?
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Thanks for this!
precaryous
  #39  
Old Sep 18, 2014, 06:28 PM
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junkDNA junkDNA is offline
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im having a strong reaction to this post. i feel scared for u OP. i just want to tell u this. if things ever do progress into something more...something sexual....PLEASE tell someone right away. tell the board, tell your pdoc, tell someone. Ts can be very good at grooming clients much liek child predators do. it happened to me. it starts small but builds up and before u know it ur already involved in something that shouldnt be happening.

im not saying this is gonna happen to you. i KNOW im not being objective because of my history on this subject. i know im having strong reactions to this bc it reminds me so much of what happened to me.

i just want you OP to be safe. i dont even know who u are yet i care so much right now. i know how hard it is. i dont want ANYONE to go through it. please trust ur instincts.
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  #40  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 06:10 PM
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Thinking of you, Starlight.
  #41  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 06:54 PM
justdesserts justdesserts is offline
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My therapist's philosophy is that he never initiates touch that the client doesn't ask for. I can't imagine any therapist asking to massage my shoulders. I think that touch should be client lead, and if you're wondering if he's crossing boundaries, that is you warning yourself.
Thanks for this!
growlycat
  #42  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 07:01 PM
bounceback bounceback is offline
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Please get away from this guy. I feel the creep factor vibe just from what you written here.
  #43  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 07:04 PM
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precaryous precaryous is offline
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Glen Gabbard, M.D. is a published psychiatrist. Here is his opinion, for what it's worth:

By Glen O. Gabbard, M.D.

Patient-Therapist Boundary Issues | Psychiatric Times

Nonsexual physical contact. In routine office psychotherapy, the extent of physical contact should probably be limited to handshakes. However, one is hard-pressed to generalize and say that a hug is never acceptable. As noted above, when tragedies occur in the lives of patients, a human response may be to return a hug initiated by a patient. These boundary crossings can be discussed in terms of their meaning for the patient later. The problem, though, when the therapist initiates a hug or a kiss with the patient is that one can never know in advance how the patient will experience the overture. The impact on the patient may be quite different from the therapist's intent (Gabbard, 1996; Gutheil and Gabbard, 1998, 1993). Patients who have a history of sexual trauma, for example, may experience a hug or even a touch as assaultive. Moreover, therapists cannot be certain of their unconscious wishes when initiating a hug even if they consciously believe that there is no sexual connotation. Hence any form of physical contact outside of a handshake should be an extraordinary event in the course of a psychotherapy process. It should be initiated in most cases by the patient, discussed in terms of its meaning, and not repeated. - See more at: Patient-Therapist Boundary Issues | Psychiatric Times
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feralkittymom
  #44  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 09:53 PM
Abe Froman Abe Froman is offline
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I've never even shaken hands with mine, and I'm fine with that. I might be weirded out if she hugged me, but that's just because we're not big huggers and what not in my family.

I think it sounds on the line or maybe a bit over. If you are worried it might go just a bit further and make you uncomfortable, I'd bring it up now so you don't lose the rapport.
  #45  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 10:35 PM
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RTerroni RTerroni is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abe Froman View Post
I've never even shaken hands with mine, and I'm fine with that. I might be weirded out if she hugged me, but that's just because we're not big huggers and what not in my family.

I think it sounds on the line or maybe a bit over. If you are worried it might go just a bit further and make you uncomfortable, I'd bring it up now so you don't lose the rapport.
I have already told all of my Therapists that I don't like to shake hands. We are also not big huggers in my imediate family (however there are people in my extended family that are). I'm sort of a hug or nothing person.
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  #46  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 10:38 PM
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Partless Partless is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by precaryous View Post
Glen Gabbard, M.D. is a published psychiatrist. Here is his opinion, for what it's worth...
And that's interesting that he is open to more physical contact. Given his psychoanalytical background.
  #47  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 10:59 PM
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scorpiosis37 scorpiosis37 is offline
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Your situation raises a lot of red flags. Your T is initiating the touch. Your T has never discussed the touch. Your T has never asked if you are okay with the touch. Your T keeps you over time repeatedly. Your T has offered more sessions/free sessions that you did not ask for. If these requests were coming from YOU, the client, that would be a different story. I think it is okay for a client to ask for platonic touch, it is okay for a client to ask for more sessions, it is okay for a client to ask about a sliding scale/free sessions. It is then the T's job to DISCUSS the implications of these things-- what do they mean in the context of the therapy relationship? These things should be about the client's needs and the client's growth. The problem is that when they come from the T, they are about the T's needs. Therapy should NEVER be about satisfying the T's needs. Therapy needs to be about the client. Clearly, your T is not attempting to meet your needs--- because he has not asked you what your needs are or whether any of these things he is giving you are even things that you want. Your gut is right here-- your T seems like he is "grooming" you for something more. I would suspect that he will continue to initiate more and more touch. I suggest talking to him about this and making your boundaries VERY clear-- if you want to continue seeing him.

Just to give you a contrast, I can tell you how my T and I approach touch in therapy. I am the one who first brought up the issue of touch. I told her that I wanted a hug, I told her why, and I asked her if it was within her boundaries. She explained why she felt it was appropriate in the context of our relationship and then she gave me that hug. Months later, I asked if it would be okay if she sat next to me when I was crying and having a hard session. We talked about it, and she agreed and came and sat next to me. My T has never initiated touch with me, but she gives touch when I ask for it-- and we talk about it. Touch in therapy can be appropriate and beneficial-- when it's something the client wants and the client and T discuss what it means.
Thanks for this!
growlycat
  #48  
Old Sep 19, 2014, 11:32 PM
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feralkittymom feralkittymom is offline
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I don't know if your T is unethical, or beginning to stray down a slippery slope. But it is clear to me that his actions, taken together, show that he is not a highly competent T. He may be very nice and supportive, but he is thoughtless about his actions and that shows that he really doesn't have an appreciation for the psychological principles which underlie therapy. I wouldn't talk it over with him because if he is unethical, it will simply give him more power in how to accomplish whatever his goal is. And I wouldn't talk it over with him because I just don't think he's competent enough to want to continue working with.

It's worth thinking about whether your desire to not upset your rapport with him is appropriate: therapy should be a place in which you don't want to feel constrained in your expression. That very quality of wanting to please, to be a "good" client can be a vulnerability that an unethical T could take advantage of.
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