[Person66]

I wrote a post below, "is this Malpractice" is extremely unclear.

A few corrections

I meant *warning not waning (as in the waning moon)

-I have been paying my doctor, I paid every session up until my final one, I was referring to one month in which I told her that I couldn't see her but she persuaded me against my better judgment to accept 4 free sessions, we agreed on when I'd pay for it, that time hasn't come yet so she broke her promise

-I have not had a wedding yet, I thought it was clear that it was in the future tense, she now refuses to have anything to do with me

-I do not intend to sue her (I have had doctors malpractice on me before, I didn't sue them) but I still want to know if what she did was malpractice
The word "sue" is not in there, just the word "malpractice"

Most importantly this whole topic is too complicated to write in a post. It was naive of me to think I could do it. My apologies

[wotchermuggle]

Originally Posted by Person66

I wrote a post below, "is this Malpractice" is extremely unclear.

A few corrections

-I have been paying my doctor, I was referring to a few free sessions months ago which I was repaying, just not repaying fast enough for her

-I have not had a wedding yet, I thought it was clear that it was in the future tense, she now refuses to have anything to do with me

-I tried to pay her my balance in hopes that we could mend our relationship, she says it's too late

-I do not intend to sue her (I have had doctors malpractice on me before, I didn't sue them) but I still want to know if what she did was malpractice
The word "sue" is not in there, just the word "malpractice"

No, how is she being negligent? You haven't cleared your bill. She doesn't have to see you for free.

[Person66]

I fail to see how she's seeing me for free when I'm paying her her full fee at every session

If I give you a $100 loan and say "pay me back in a year" yet demand payment in 6 months, who's breaking the agreement, especially if I talked you into the loan

[sweepy62]

What was the actual agreement 4 free sessions And pay me when you can? Or was there a time limit? Just trying to understand , why she thought you took too long.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lauliza]

Unless you signed a contract stating she agreed you could pay her in a year, then you I think you have to pay her. I would be angry that she reneged on the original plan also, but she might have the right to discontinue services until you pay what you owe. I think her behavior is unethical, but still not malpractice.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by Person66

I wrote a post below, "is this Malpractice" is extremely unclear.

A few corrections

I meant *warning not waning (as in the waning moon)

-I have been paying my doctor, I paid every session up until my final one, I was referring to one month in which I told her that I couldn't see her but she persuaded me against my better judgment to accept 4 free sessions, we agreed on when I'd pay for it, that time hasn't come yet so she broke her promise

-I have not had a wedding yet, I thought it was clear that it was in the future tense, she now refuses to have anything to do with me

-I do not intend to sue her (I have had doctors malpractice on me before, I didn't sue them) but I still want to know if what she did was malpractice
The word "sue" is not in there, just the word "malpractice"

Most importantly this whole topic is too complicated to write in a post. It was naive of me to think I could do it. My apologies

So are you saying she told you originally you don't have to pay me for this month for let's say a year or something, but now all of a sudden she wants you to pay up for that month? Did she actually terminate you for not paying at the last session, or did she just say she won't see you until you pay? Just curious.

One thing to keep in mind is if a therapist sees someone without payment for too long that can actually be considered unethical and malpractice. Malpractice to me is more of a medical thing, I don't think the failing to write two months of prescriptions would qualify. Whether she's in the wrong or not, I don't have all the info obviously, but it sure seems like there's a major miscommunication between the two of you. It sounds like she feels burned by you and you by her.

[scorpiosis37]

If you did not pay her for your last session then she has every right to tell you that you cannot come back until you pay for that session. As I understand it, while she agreed to give you those 4 free sessions before, there was no agreement about not paying for this last session? If that is the case, it isn't really fair to show up, attend a session, and then not pay for it-- even if it was just once.

What are the parts you are leaving out? Nothing is too complicated to explain. Just take the time to write it out. It's hard for us to help if there are pieces of the puzzle missing.

[stopdog]

Good luck with things going forward. It can be difficult on threads to get a point across and people do take things off in odd directions.

[missbella]

I understood your prior "malpractice" thread to query whether your therapist was crossing/violating boundaries. The gallery had mixed opinions.

It sounds like you decided the ditch her and go elsewhere. Ultimately if she violated your boundary, that's the only thing that matters.

All the tangents about revenge and suing were others else reading things in you never said.

[Leah123]

But in this thread from February of this year you say she officiated at your wedding:

http://forums.psychcentral.com/psych...evastated.html

Originally Posted by Person66

I feel so devastated and despondent, even suicidal over the events that have transpired lately.

I have to backtrack to explain properly.
15 years ago, I had the best psychiatrist I have ever known. (we're still friends)
He was a psychiatrist and my insurance allowed me to see him weekly and only pay 20% of his fee, through reimbursment
He was wonderful, he treated me for my depression and severe anxiety, eventually I had a psychotic break due to psychotic depression, he was able to treat me without hospitalizing me, through judicious use of anti-psychotics and therapy. Thankfully the psychosis was short lived and he stopped the anti-psychotics after a few months and I never relapsed.
Sometimes the insurance would be late reimbursing me and I couldn't afford to pay him for a week or two and he didn't mind at all, he knew I had insurance and that I'd pay him as fast as I could, which, I always did.
He never even discussed money with me.

I was devastated after over 10 years of seeing him, when he told me he was going to move to California (across the country, as I was in NYC).
But he referred me to his best friend another psychiatrist, he told me that she promised him she would look after me and provide the same level of care.

She did turn out to be an excellent psychiatrist and over the years I grew to have a great deal of affection towards her and her family. She became like family to me. I spent a great deal of money buying expensive presents for her young daughters during Christmas and their birthdays.
When she ran the NYC marathon, I backed her financial cause, and came out to cheer her on.
As I don't work on Wednesdays (the day I see her) she sometimes asks me if .i can come in earlier or later to accommodate other patients who can't make it for their usual times. I almost always say yes, even if it inconveniences me a little.
She even officiated my wedding!
She told me she cared about me more than any other patient!

I often have difficulty getting reimbursement from my insurance, but it always comes eventually.
The last time I saw her, she gave away part of my time slot without my permission . Apparently she notified me by text message and Email, but I didn't get them and never confirmed yes. She had no problem dismissing me 15 minutes early!
For what was the rest of the session, there was no actual therapy, instead she *****ed and complained about money I owed her, as my reimbursment check had not come in yet.
She said things like "I don't do this for free", "anybody else would have thrown you out by now" and "if you can afford to go to the Opera, why can't you pay me?". She has said these things many times before.
I told her my check would come and just to be patient (my check did I fact just come). I just can't afford her $350 fee without help from my insurance

The next week when I said I didn't have the money to pay her immediately, she told me not to bother to come in, and so I didn't see her for the next 3 weeks as my insurance was taking its time reimbursing me.
Previously she had accepted late payments without a single complaint, now she seems so much more money-oriented and greedy. Winter storms caused her to cancel some more visits and I haven't seen her in over a month

I was very upset when I realized that for over a month she never called or Emailed me once to ask how I was doing, not one "Are you allright"? All communication has been via text.
I was planning on seeing her this Wednesday to give her all the money I owed her, but when I called her office I found out she had left the country without even telling me

She'll be back next week.
What do you think I should tell her.

I can't go on like this, I can't see another therapist, starting over is so hard and I don't know whom to trust.

I feel abandoned by her.
I honestly want to end my life

What do you think I should do?

[JaneTennison1]

Ok, I got sidetracked by the word malpractice last time. Taking that out , do I think she has done anything wrong? Not really. This is a business transaction.
Sad but true. She showed you leniency in the past and it seems like it took a while to get her the money she was owed. Maybe she just doesn't want to show the same leniency and get burned.

She has crossed boundaries butyou were ok with that until now.

[Person66]

Wanted to make the following corrections:

the money I owed her was from six months ago when she persuaded me to let her give me four free sessions, she said I had a year to pay, but wanted her money back now after 6 months.
-A big problem with her is that unlike my previous Pdoc (who had a receipt/invoice ready for at every session) she was inconsistent with her receipts and made a lot of mistakes, a big problem when you need those receipts for reimbursment from your insurance

-as for the previous post, it was a mistake she said I owed her for x amount of sessions (sessions that I canceled put supposedly not soon enough, she needs 72 hours notice) and I believed her, I got tired of her complaining so agreed to pay up, then I found proof that I had paid her after all (as I said above she makes lots of billing mistakes
When I showed her the evidence, she apologixed so profusely that I felt mad.
-as for the "she officiated my wedding part, I made a mistake and meant to say she will officiate it, I write these things while I'm upset so mistakes abound.
So ignore the last post it is in accurate and I didn't follow up

I will say this for the last time:
Scorpiosis, I paid for my last session there were only 4 sessions I didn't pay for which she said I had a year to pay, then wanted payment in six months, therefor reneging on her promise

Tell me anything else that is unclear.

The gifts I bought for her family are worth more than triple what I owe her.

[Person66]

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

Ok, I got sidetracked by the word malpractice last time. Taking that out , do I think she has done anything wrong? Not really. This is a business transaction.
Sad but true. She showed you leniency in the past and it seems like it took a while to get her the money she was owed. Maybe she just doesn't want to show the same leniency and get burned.

She has crossed boundaries butyou were ok with that until now.

But she only showed leniency once, for four sessions, I swear I paid for everything else up to the last payment

I had doubts before but let them slide.
If she says I'm her favorite patient, then acts like it, that's OK.
But if she say I'm her favorite.patient and treats me badly then that's not OK

If its a business transaction let her say that, but she kept saying I was much more than a business transaction, therein lies the problem.

[Person66]

Originally Posted by sweepy62

What was the actual agreement 4 free sessions And pay me when you can? Or was there a time limit? Just trying to understand , why she thought you took too long.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In our oral agreement she said "pay me when you can"
I said "I will need a year, I'm not ure if this is a good idea"
She replied "that's fine, don't worry about it"

I have no clue why she thought I took too long.

I'm sorry things have become so undone with your psychiatrist, Person66. I don't see where this woman has been negligent or engaged in malpractice, but I get it that her way of treating you has lead to hard feelings and anger. She has definitely demonstrated poor professional boundaries and that could get her in hot water with her professional licensing organization, but it would most likely be a slap on the wrist.

"The gifts I bought for her family are worth more than triple what I owe her."

Often here on PC, people ask about giving gifts to their therapists. Your post and the feelings behind it are exactly why most therapist will not accept gifts that are expensive or extravagant. Like many people, the expectation is that when you give an expensive gift, it places you in a special category--the person who receives the gift should be beholden to the giver of the gift. Not a good position for a therapist to put themselves in. Sadly, the reality of the situation is that your relationship with your psychiatrist is a professional one, no matter what she has said in the past about you meaning more to her than just a client. We pay for a service and our therapist's provide it for the fee. Do they like us or appreciate us? Sure, in some cases, but the reality is, if we don't pay, they don't make a living. She was wrong in making you believe the relationship meant more to her than it did. She is wrong not to help you make arrangements to get your medication in a timely manner--if she's referring you out, she should refer you, not leave you hanging, especially when you're on the level of benzo's you're on. If there is any professional errors, I think it's that she is out of line medically for prescribing those medications at the level they are for too long of a period. I hope you're able to find a new provider.

She is unethical. Pay her what you owe her when you can and cut all ties. Therapists/psychiatrists have so much ability to do so much damage. It's disgusting.

[Person66]

BTW-I paid her everything now, my balance is zero

The gifts I gave her, were no strings attached.

I didn't think giving her these put me in a special category.
She said I was in a special category because she said she promised my former Pdoc she's take good care of me.
I only mention it now because she says "I don't work for free, I have a family" as if I don't care about her family.

This woman lives in a luxurious cul-de-sac, takes 4 vacations a year (most of them abroad), wears designer clothing and lives a generally luxurious lifestyle, yet she keeps saying:
"I'm not rich"

[SabinaS]

What does it matter whether she's rich or not, you still need to pay for therapy. And why buy her daughters expensive gifts but not pay for 4 sessions?

I agree, she shouldn't have accepted the gifts and it sounds as though she had a fair few boundary problems... but YOU bought the gifts, I think you should take responsibility a little bit (unless you're a minor?).

It sounds as though you're better off out anyway, from what you've said, she doesn't sound like a great therapist... I wouldn't say anything she did was a reportable though.

[missbella]

I think her interactions, including saying you're her favorite and her business practices seem lax and unprofessional.

I'd personally be angry paying out of pocket fees that that I learned were reimbursed by insurance.

I'd also be upset that a once-good relationship has gone so haywire.
I don't agree with the school that boundaries should be all loosey-goosey.

It's good you're leaving.
Therapist Abuse & Professional Misconduct - Treatment Abuse Checklist

[Person66]

Originally Posted by SabinaS

What does it matter whether she's rich or not, you still need to pay for therapy. And why buy her daughters expensive gifts but not pay for 4 sessions?

I agree, she shouldn't have accepted the gifts and it sounds as though she had a fair few boundary problems... but YOU bought the gifts, I think you should take responsibility a little bit (unless you're a minor?).

It sounds as though you're better off out anyway, from what you've said, she doesn't sound like a great therapist... I wouldn't say anything she did was a reportable though.

It matters that she's rich because she keeps claiming that she's not.
I have no problem with her being rich but then don't say:
"I need my money I'm not rich!
She acts like she needs the money to put food on the table, that's not the case.
I just want her to be honest.
Plus she's become so much more materialistic in the past 8 years without making more money.
I think there's a problem when psychiatrists are getting rich and the poor can't afford treatment, you end up with situations like the Newtown, CT shootings and all kinds of bad things happen when a segment of the society can't afford mental healthcare.
Now I'm very far off from being poor, but basically I was quasi-poor for one month and it destroyed everything!

I bought presents for her daughters because I felt affection towards them. I met them and they're such nice girls, so sweet, so well behaved and so extremely thankful for each present.
They were going to be my flower girls, I wanted to give them something in return.

At this point I have paid her every penny I owed her.
Furthermore she lied to me that I had a year to pay her back.

What really ticks me off is, when I offered to pay her what I owed (as hard as it was) and she wanted to terminate., and she made my transition to my new Pdoc as difficult as possible.

It would have been one thing if I pressured her to see me for free for a month.
But no, it was she who pressured me (against my better judgement) to do so and then she went back on her word as to when I had to pay.

Now some of you have been very helpful and supportive and I can't thank you enough, but others have tried everything to side with my Pdoc and basically poored salt on my wound.
I mean, boundary violations versus boundary crossing?
That's equivocating!
Are some of you lawyers for the American Psychiatric Association?
To some of you it seems it's only a true boundary crossing/violation/problem if it involves something sexual.

[Leah123]

Or, it could be that we want to support you by helping you look at an ambiguous situation in a deeper, more realistic way than the black-and-white, victim/perpetrator manner: especially given the inconsistencies in these posts, it's very hard for me to see it as one-sided as you were apparently hoping.

It seemed you initially were asking if the offenses were malpractice. Many of us don't believe they were, others do, and of course, only a lawyer could really address that accurately with you.

I am sorry you two have had a rupture and I hope that the care from your new provider is more helpful than the last.

If there's one thing I've learned over my lifetime is that when I ask for advice and find that I don't like or agree with the advice, I simply say, "Thanks for your time and thoughts on the issue. I have to think about this a bit more." In my book, I don't have the right to scold the person for disagreeing with me. When you ask for advice you can't control the responses you're going to get.

I hope that you gain a solid connection with your new treatment provider, and I'm sorry you had such a negative experience with your former psychiatrist.

[~Christina]

Im sorry you are feeling the way you are.

I hope you find a new T that you can process all of this with from start to finish.

There are always three sides to every story Person A, Person B and the Truth.

One question I always ask myself when I am upset over X problem ... Will this really matter to me in a year?????

I wish you the best

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by Person66

-I have been paying my doctor, I paid every session up until my final one, I was referring to one month in which I told her that I couldn't see her but she persuaded me against my better judgment to accept 4 free sessions, we agreed on when I'd pay for it, that time hasn't come yet so she broke her promise


I will say this for the last time:
Scorpiosis, I paid for my last session there were only 4 sessions I didn't pay for which she said I had a year to pay, then wanted payment in six months, therefor reneging on her promise

The confusion resulted from a simple grammatical mistake. When you say that you paid her UP UNTIL the final session, that means you paid for every session *except* the final one. What you meant was that you paid her up THROUGH the final session.

Just so that I make sure I understand you, WHEN did you pay your T the amount that you owed her for those 4 "free" sessions that she gave you? From reading your posts, it sounds like you paid her between 6am and 7am this morning-- because, initially, you said that you had not broken the agreement because you still had time-- then you shifted to saying that you had a "zero balance" and she was "paid in full." Then, you suggested that you had already paid at the point when she terminated you-- which would obviously have been before today. So, just so that I don't misunderstand you, when did you pay her for those 4 remaining sessions?

It seems to me that the dislike you feel for some of the responses you are getting is a result of confusion/miscommunication. Your posts are admittedly difficult to follow because of little errors and inconsistencies, so we are responding to information that isn't correct. If you clarify these things for us, then we can give you better feedback.

[Person66]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

The confusion resulted from a simple grammatical mistake. When you say that you paid her UP UNTIL the final session, that means you paid for every session *except* the final one. What you meant was that you paid her up THROUGH the final session.

Just so that I make sure I understand you, WHEN did you pay your T the amount that you owed her for those 4 "free" sessions that she gave you? From reading your posts, it sounds like you paid her between 6am and 7am this morning-- because, initially, you said that you had not broken the agreement because you still had time-- then you shifted to saying that you had a "zero balance" and she was "paid in full." Then, you suggested that you had already paid at the point when she terminated you-- which would obviously have been before today. So, just so that I don't misunderstand you, when did you pay her for those 4 remaining sessions?

It seems to me that the dislike you feel for some of the responses you are getting is a result of confusion/miscommunication. Your posts are admittedly difficult to follow because of little errors and inconsistencies, so we are responding to information that isn't correct. If you clarify these things for us, then we can give you better feedback.

Yes all sessions are paid for including the four "free" ones, I paid one week after the final session in which she terminated me.

In the previous thread, there were posts splitting hairs between boundary "crossings" and "violations", which to me is confusing nonsense.
I have no problem with someone saying, "I don't see any malpractice here at all"
I just consider that answering my question.
But there were posts that could be summed up as "You should be grateful, just pay the woman!" and five people thanked the writer for that post.

Other people assumed I wanted to sue or get revenge, when I never mentioned anything of the sort.
I just want to get on with my life as soon as possible, I don't see that as a victim mentality.

I should also note she changed (for the worse) in the past 8 years.
For six years she was an excellent therapist and doctor, even if her boundaries were poor and her billing often erroneous, she more than made up for it in other ways.
It's just very painful seeing her change like this, and heartbreaking.