I'm under appreciated and underpaid, therapist says

Middle class would be a dream! Try living below poverty level, working your rear-end off, and paying out the nose for the privilege of having insurance, and paying out of various other bodily orifi to cover the deductible.

I made a choice as a high school graduate to not continue my education. I have a choice every day to go back and get a degree. I picked a job with some security, but based on my education and experience, I make barely a living wage.

We are looking at some very frightening stats tonight, tuition and various other expenses for my oldest to get a teaching degree. Let's just say without a masters and tenure, she has no hope of paying for that education as an elementary school teacher.

Choices. I can change my mind, this blogger can too. I can't feel sorry for her.

I didn't even read her blog, but i'm thinking after reading all of the responses--if someone has choices or made the wrong choice, does that mean that they don't deserve any compassion?

If I made a bad choice that led to becoming homeless, do I have no 'right' to be upset about it before I get past the stage where I find my will to overcome adversity again?

The blogger is not saying she made a bad choice - she is upset because as a therapist she seems not to feel super admired by society (oh no therapists are made fun of in movies) and she feels underpaid for her valuable services.

Of course you have a right to your feelings. Feelings are valid. But what do your feelings cause you to do? Do you need to go on a rant on a very public forum and disparage your profession?

Yes, I def. think that's a bad idea for a therapist to do that. If I were her client, which I wouldn't be in the first place, but hypothetically..i'd likely never return.

I think PhDs in the hard sciences do have low salaries. I was also surprised to read on the APA website that research psychologists start higher than clinical psychologists. I always thought most research jobs paid relatively low since they are so competitive.

There's funding issues, but sometimes I think its the fault of the researchers themselves, because universities can limit the slots in their programs if they wanted too I suppose. Just like medical doctors do, which keeps their salaries higher through their management of the supply side of physician labor.

Take a look at her blog, Skies. I would have compassion--I guess I feel a combination of pity and dislike for her more than compassion--if she were not so strident in her beliefs that clients who don't change under her "expert" guidance in 12 sessions or less (I don't remember if it was actually 12, but a very short term, nevertheless) aren't working hard enough. She just seems to me to have a giant chip on her shoulder that she can't seem to recognize or shift and so it plays out in a very grandiose impression of herself and less than insightful treatment of her clients.

One could also say that she is the one in control of her practice philosophy, and if she is going to believe that clients should be out the door in relatively few sessions (and she doesn't accept insurance and explains why in a lengthy rant), then she is, by design, going to have a practice with high turnover. She apparently doesn't have clients beating down her door for her services, so her income will be limited. She seems angry that others (including some within her profession) don't see the miracle of her approach and talents.

ETA: I think Universities assume that researchers in the sciences will be getting some of their compensation from grants they bring into the University. At least at research universities, it's very difficult to get hired in the hard sciences without grant-attracting experience.

Most researchers don't work for universities, and all limiting places would do is reduce the amount of talent in the industry. I used to work in drug development ( and hope to again soon). The people in the industry generate the funding through the ideas they develop. Less people working on novel leads means less funding which means less new drugs which means less successful leads to make the money for the returns on the venture capital which makes venture capital less lucrative which means less funding.
We don't make great money (and I'm an RA, not a scientist), but most are comfortably middle class. And like a good therapist, a good scientist isn't in it for the money either.

But if I look at her blog, how can I continue to remain neutral?

Maybe the 12 session thing has to di with insurance only paying that for some; that could make her angry iis leading to less accounts receivables.

Nope, not reading the blog yet. Lol

I can see the pity and disklike...but I sense hostility too and wonder why.

Ohh Shakey I just meant universities who train them. If there are less grads there are less jobs and yes less talent but higher income.

The medical physicians who run the medical schools don't seem to care about generating less talent.

I would think before one gets an advanced degree in a chosen profession they would perform due diligence so they know what they are getting into. I didn't choose becoming an LMHC because of the high salary. I originally planned to go for psychiatric nursing just for that reason- they are the ones who get the real money - higher than many doctorate level psychologists. My T is getting her second masters in psych nursing just for this reason (they make second to the MD's in some practices).

The counselor route was my choice because the masters program suited my life better, and I still think it was the best choice. Will I make six figures like the psych nurse? No way! But I think I will be able to make a good living if I'm as competent as I hope to be. I do think it's worth noting that some Ts have the illusion that going into private practice right away is a good idea, but salary wise it probably isn't practical (nor is working for a state agency). New Ts have that fantasy of a full private practice but in reality there is so much competition it's not likely, at least not at the start and especially in Boston. So I think this blogger is very naive. And under appreciated? All human service and public service professionals could feel the same. Many people don't get the recognition they feel they deserve- it goes with the territory. This T needs to find a new career I think.

Not hostility--I'm not invested enough for that. But without reading her blog, you really can't assess her tone, which I find to be very hypocritical. And she doesn't accept insurance for philosophical reasons.

People will always need doctors, but without scientists doctors will be severely limited on treatments. And it's not really about the number of grads. Doctors and hospitals make profits. Startups do not. And there are many more doctors than scientists. It's very prestigious - medical schools limit their places as much to try and weed out the people who are only in it for the prestige as anything else - though they are not necessarily successful...

I can still have opinions without reading it, which was largely about salaries and labor of people in the profession, and was aside from her blog.

"I agree. Life is about choices - and accepting the consequences of those choices."

I can also have opinions about statements like that ^ without reading the blog. I wouldn't call it hypocritical, but oh well.

I just want to say, I never read her blog. Too busy. But as someone who complains about my own career, and a person who knows 95% of people complain about their careers, I'm not surprised. Where I live there was just an article on 10 worst college degrees in terms of making money, and psychology was on there. I know people who work for 30k a year in psychology with college degrees and certifications. I'm sure to piss people off no matter what I say, but that's not a lot of money, statistically, for a job you need to pay four years of college minimum for. And most of the therapists need masters degrees, there's another 100k down the tubes before you even start working. Anyways, the psychiatrists in contrast rake it in. I bet my psychiatrist is probably loaded, and they have an easy job as far as I can tell, talk to people for 10 minutes and bill $200. In the US though you are pretty hard up unless you're in the top 5-1%.

I do see the value of scientists and across many disciplines and economic sectors. There are many foreign scientists in the US, which makes it appear that there is lack of people willing to become scientists in my country. Which is it, do you know?

It's over $30K per year at a local not very prestigious college! Add in licensing and continuing education and insurance and overhead. You would have to work a lot of overtime to pay over $100K for the credentials!

At the same time, if you know the pitfalls but feel called to the job because you love it, why vent and complain?

Lack of jobs. There is simply not the kind of money you need to fund research in many parts of the world. If I hadn't left home I would likely have worked in quality or in hospital labs.

I think the the hostility comes from the under appreciated comment. It sounds somewhat arrogant to me. There were many factors that shaped my decision to study counseling, but receiving actual appreciation was not one of them.

Some Ts forget that their clients are usually intelligent, savvy people who have an interest in psychology and often read blogs like this. It can be insulting - clients don't need to read about the negative reactions some Ts can have about clients. It undermines the concept that therapy is the one place we are free from judgement. I know Ts have a right to express themselves but that's what supervision and/or their own therapy is for.

I don't see many public defenders or defense attorneys whining about being underpaid or appreciated (yes I have one of those in my family). It is his job and he knew it when he chose it. And as a lawyer I don't think he's be finding much compassion for his woes either.

I didn't find your tone hypocritical--I was referring to the blogger's tone which only comes across after reading her blog, independent of the issues that are related to the topic.

True. In the US, bachelor degree level therapists or social workers make very little income - in the low 30's without not much growth unless they get a masters degree or higher. But with a masters and a license you can make a very good middle class income (especially if they didn't go to a high priced private masters program!).

Thanks for answering my question about the overall hostility I'm sensing, whether right or wrong. I don't agree with blogging such things but she might benefit from a therspist if she saw one

Oh, it's fine to whine Skies, just not to place blame unfairly, and particularly not publicly on the people you rely upon to keep you in business.

Regarding the pay again...

I think theres a big difference with social worker pay and psychologist pay. Both can also be therapists or not.

Too tired to go on the bureau of labor site.

When I was unemployed, indeed.com was my best friend-- best job search site, better than monster etc because it aggregates jobs from everywhere.