I'm under appreciated and underpaid, therapist says

Excerpt from a blog post:

The most under-appreciated and under-paid profession | Marina Williams, LMHC

Just wondering what you think?

There are many, "you're never going to get rich doing this," jobs and therapy is one of them for most.

Also, wages and pay scales are determined by not only the value of the service, but the number of people who *want to do that job* compared with the demand for the service.

This is why garbage men can make good money -- you have to offer more pay to make someone *want* to do that job. With therapy, lots of people are willing to do that job for low pay, and if one isn't willing to do it, someone else will take his place.

Do you think therapists are under appreciated and underpaid?

My MA T makes a ton of money. He is private practice though.

My CBT T however, here in CA seems to do a lot of consulting outside of working in a medical system. So he may be making less than I think.

I also wonder if that is a new T who is blogging --starting off as a new T in MA where there are a glut of established T's---is skewing the discussion.

Many rural/less desirable to some --areas are actually in great need of T's. But who wants to live in the Dakotas when you can live in NY or Boston?

Many of my t friends don't make much. They often work two jobs (one full time which can often be 60 hours a week), then they have a part-time job on nights and weekends. My mentor had 5 jobs at one point: one f/t position as director for an agency (with 24/7 on-call for her employees), a clinical supervisor position 1 day a week for training clinicians, her private practice on the weekends, consulting with a former agency at least once a week, and on an advisory board for the state that met one weekend every month... definitely not a glamorous or well-paid field. Even the clinicians I know who do primarily private practice also hold more than one job to make ends meet (especially the ones who offer sliding scale or payment flexibility for their clients)...
Prior to licensing/credentialing, they make even less and work unpaid internships to meet hours for credentialing requirements...
I do know a few who make significantly more money, but they work in private practice in very wealthy areas.

i get the impression from my t that while he isn't "rolling in it" he makes an average living.

I think part of the reason a lot of therapists and others in caring professions don't make a lot of money is because they don't focus enough attention on caring for themselves. continually working 60 hour weeks to barely make ends meet is not good self care. There comes a point where you have to say enough is enough.

Yeah, this. I get doing a job for the love of it rather than the money, but you *do* have to make enough money to live. I currently have a low-paying job that I love, but I'll have to move on very soon because I don't plan on being married much longer. Life's about choices. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

I think she is a whiny therapist who is very concerned about business and money. I read some more of her posts and they seem to focus on business and clients who don't take her advice.

I would rather live almost anywhere than new york or boston.

i agree with SD. she seemed whiny. i also didn't like her portrayal of doctors. i know doctors. i go to church with doctors and they genuinely care for their patients. not everyone in every field is altruistic... but they also aren't all money grabbers (except maybe the wall street guys lol).

while my t makes an average living, i do wonder at times if he's getting stiffed by working at a clinic.

Yes. Insurances always under pay doctors, hospitals, and even Ts and Pdocs. My Ts rate, I think, is $120/hr. She won't tell me what my insurance pays her, but my guess is in the $50 range. She doesn't charge for emails, texts, or phone calls. She is smart and charges my insurance phone calls to my Pdoc.

Her husband is a teacher, he makes a low amount of money. T teaches 3 classes at a college on top of her private practice, but she only works 4 days a week. Plus living in our area, raising a baby, and paying off both hers (ph.d) and her husband's (ma) student loans (from an expensive university)...yeah, they aren't "rich".

And I do think they are under appreciated. There are so many "bad" Ts out there. The ones who are actually "good" get a bad rep from the bad ones. I actually takes a lot of skill to truly ve empathetic, to learn how to listen and not just hear, to maintain their emotions and boundaries, all while processing the clients issues and helping them process things in a healthy productive manner. Plus, for some reason, people tend to think of Ts as "perfect". They expect them to have great relationships, no mental health issues of their own, and to never make mistakes. Reality: they are human like all the rest of us. It must be hard to have the majority of theur clients put them on a pedestal.

But that's just another reason why I appreciate my T. She is real with me. I, of course, can easily see her strengths. But she also lets me know her weakness...to keep my perception of her real and not ideal. She considers us equals and that both of us are actually teaching each other. She actually practices what she preaches. She says if she expects her clients to do something, then she needs to do it too: going for walks, meditation, deep breathing, etc.

My therapist does fine. Makes a solid middle class living. Therapists do choose their careers like any other professional: if they had the talent and desire to be doctors or bankers instead, they could've chosen those more lucrative fields. And if they only want to serve the most lucrative clientele, they're entitled to move, market and give it a shot, just like any professional who may want to make more. Hey, they didn't fall into minimum wage at McDonald's so I don't feel sorry for them or like they're in particularly bad straits.

Many professions are more lucrative in one regional area than another; I've moved up to a 1,000 miles at a time to keep myself in coin for the right job.

So it does seem like sort of a sweeping generalization to say that it's "not a lucrative profession" when these observations are specifically about practicing in Massachusetts (and as a therapist who themselves suggest they are not "seasoned"). Where I live, it is on average about a 20-phone call process to locate a therapist who is even taking on new patients, regardless of how good your insurance is, and I'm only a couple of states away. I know my last therapist, just last year, was getting close to $100 in reimbursement for each 45-minute session I spent with him, so even conservatively he'd only need to see 3 clients like me a day to be making twice the annual salary that the blogger reports making. Obviously there's expenses, but 4, 5 clients a day and overhead is a done deal. Not that any one profession can be compared to another, but just in terms of pure math I have to work quite a bit harder for every hundred bucks that I make.

Obviously no one should have to change locations to secure a salary that covers their living expenses. But to be honest I hardly know anyone who hasn't, and I know many who have taken on a 2-hour commute (each way) just to achieve it.

I worked in a special school for severely emotionally disturbed children. I have two master's degrees in the mental health area. I worked long hours, often including nights and weekends. If there was a crisis at night or on weekends, I was often called. BUT I was paid well, was given insurance as part of my benefit package, a decent pension and had generous vacation time. I could have worked in private practice, but I choose not to. I never had any regrets. My colleagues working in mental health agencies and in private practice, often looked down on me and my fellow colleagues working in schools because we weren't doing "real" therapy. It always made me smile. They saw a child for a 50 minute session once a week (usually every other week) and they were positive they knew what the child and the family needed more than any school mental health worker. I saw that same child every morning as he got off the bus, in the cafeteria, on the playground, in my office, in the music room and in the school nurse's office numerous times during the day. I ate lunch with him, went for walks and on field trips and knew his stumbling blocks and his dreams.

The crowning silliness of this bias was when the private and agency mental health workers would moan and groan to me about how well I was paid and how much vacation time I got. But none of them would THINK of moving over to the education system because it would bruise their ego LOL And the few that did, often came to me later and said, "Wow! I never realized how intense the work would be in a school! The kids just burst into my office when in crisis and want my attention right then! And if a teacher is having trouble in the classroom, they think nothing of paging me to come to their classroom to help! When am I suppose to get any work done!" I'd always just nodded and said, "Yeah, it is intense work." But those were the things that made me stay and enjoyed every minute of the intensity. I wouldn't have given up being in the trenches rather than sitting in an office waiting for the child to be brought in by his parent and then escorted out the door at the end of 50 minutes. I don't have a lot of sympathy for the woman. We work in a job that we choose or we move on. I respect my therapist, pay her the fee that she feels she can charge and don't worry whether or not she is getting enough. If she isn't, it's her responsibility to up her fees. Working privately has its advantages. No boss breathing over your shoulder. No dealing with organizational craziness. Lunch on a daily basis without a client--my lunch was usually with a child or two who had been asked to leave the lunchroom due to disruptive behavior We all have our crosses to bear. They are just different shapes and sizes--the weight of each is pretty much the same.

She visited my blog, (I learned later she was researching a book chapter) and got extremely angry with me for reasons I'll share only privately.

On herself:"True expert: I am the published author of five books on the counseling process. Other therapists look to me for leadership and guidance, why not see the best?
Why Choose Me | Counseling with Marina

She also knows power struggles with clients are completely due to client interactive style.
On clients and power struggles | Marina Williams, LMHC

Her website is full of advice on bill collecting, how to stick the client for cancellations etc.
9 steps to becoming a better bill collector | Marina Williams, LMHC

Well, isn't she a treat

'True expert' indeed. The word deluded springs to mind.

Wow! What a witch . . . although I'd substitute another letter for the "w"
I have no problem with a therapist wanting to be paid. They work, they should get paid. But that lady is riding a broomstick rather than a couch!
Sorry you had to put up with one of her rants, missbella.

Why am I reminded of my mom here...

Reading all of the articles she has written, I find her annoying. I do believe that there are probably lots of T's out there underpaid and overworked. Just as there are teachers, nurses, etc. with any of these professions some places pay better than others,Have different benefits, Better hours.

As for my t... I know he works hard but tries to put boundaries up in his life so he gets to relax. I also know, he makes just fine money... Enough for him and his family to get away many times a year to recharge.

So... I find the women writing the article annoying and complaining... If she wants better she should find better.

My therapist is very underpaid and unappreciated. So is my husband who is also a therapist.

Job fields dominated by women have historically paid less. I really think that's why...but I don't know if I believe the statistic used by that therapist. Maybe that is the average pay of an entry level social worker, not psychotherapist (they can be and often are mutually exclusive) who knows. I recently read somewhere that the average pay of a psychoanalyst is over $100k a year.

My therapist jets all over the world, so he doesn't seem to be doing too bad though i wouldn't know where all the money comes from. He travels a lot.

I feel therapists are very appreciated. I didn't read her blog and am not interested after reading what Stopdog said.

Eighty percent of the working population is miserable in their jobs. And underpaid/underappreciated.

Boo hoo.

Here's a pay chart for psychologists by setting. A clinical psychologist isn't always a therapist.

Starting salaries for psychologists

...this is back from 2001, but it still shows the ranges. And that is starting pay. Still kind of low since psychologists have PhDs. I wonder how it's gone up since then.

ooooooo there's a whole salary, employment, etc. statistics site at APA..and updated through 2009. I data. lol

CWS Publications

My phd therapist charges 260$/hr so I suspect she is not starving....

That's not bad. Starting pay for a PhD scientist is lower than that.

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