[scallion5]

*Potential self-harm trigger (self-hitting)

So, before holidays, I showed up to session after having a couple drinks at company holiday party. Was 20 min late. I was thinking, given upcoming holidays that in the 30m left, we'd just have a lighter, rapport building session. I start kind of chatting about things. Then T says, "I have a question,"

"Have you signed your lease yet?"

I'd been planning to move and found a place, since my current apartment had lots of problems. BUT the property management company hadn't signed lease yet, they had to run background checks.

I got ticked off. Felt judged and kind of taken aback by the abrupt change of topic.

Things went downhill from there. T kept telling me he thought I was "afraid" that they wouldn't give me the lease. I couldn't figure out why they wouldn't give me the lease (I'd already been approved income-wise) and said, "why wouldn't they?" T telling me, "well, they haven't yet." I'd been snapping a hairband on my wrist (I have history of SI, but haven't seriously SI'd in over a decade) and he called my attention to it. I felt judged again, took hairband off.

He went back to apartment and kept pushing about it.

Finally I just lost complete control (prob. the two drinks at holiday party did not help in this regard! ) But so it goes - I started violently hitting myself and self-criticizing.

Felt humiliated and embarrassed after that. Then T asks if I can ask So-and-So to help with stuff. I'm out of sorts and just ask him "why are you telling me what to do?" He tells me he's not, he's just asking if I *can*

(well, like, why ask if I can if you don't want me to do that?)

It just didn't even feel like therapy. It just felt like this awful, painful interaction.

Went in for session right before 2 week holiday break and handed him a check (fuming inside that I *pay* for this kind of awful interaction!)

Then just sat in relative silence for 45 minutes (some talking, but mostly not) before I asked if he had anything he wanted to say before I left. He said a few things, that he was concerned, that he knows the break will be hard, that he'll be there when I get back. (He's the one leaving, btw!) hopes I have a nice holiday, etc.

I left.

I am still seriously considering just no-showing this Tuesday. I just don't understand how the above can be considered therapy. Isn't there some kind of 'processing' that is supposed to happen? Is it all up to me? Is his job just to sit there and provoke emotional responses then abandon me?

Guess I'm just looking for some kind of reality check. It's so hard to be a 'consumer' of something that one can't assess and has no way of knowing whether it's "good" or "bad" - just continually told it will take time and doesn't feel good.



P.S. - The lease was signed the next day, I wasn't afraid at all before that session (we had a move-in date and had seen the unit) but then I was consumed by anxiety that - for some unknown reason - the proper managers might go back on their word and 'unapprove' me. Maybe it was 'unconscious' fear? Or maybe *T* was afraid? I feel like I can't tell, once T "tells" me he thinks I feel a certain way whether I do or I don't...

[Mountainbard]

Hi scallion5-- it seems like people get unhappy with therapy for two reasons: because it's not helping, or because it is. Sometimes when therapy is helping us get at difficult issues it's painful, and it's natural to blame the therapist for that pain. I don't know whether that's happening in this case or not. From what you write it sounds like it is not helping, but only you can honestly judge whether that's the case. If it's not, it's time for a mutual parting of the ways. There's no law against changing therapists, or trying to find one that's a better fit. If however you feel it is helping, it will be up to you to keep going, even though the going is tough and painful.

[Petra5ed]

I guess I don't think that your therapist would have some kind of ulterior motive for asking about your lease. Seems more likely he was trying to chat about what he remembered you had going on... moving is kinda a big deal for some people. It seems like maybe you were concerned about the lease and projecting that feeling onto him?

I think when a therapist leaves for vacation clients often get mad. You even say above it feels like abandonment... my thought is that's probably the bigger issue going on. You showed to the last session late and drunk and probably a bit angry about the upcoming break. I would just think about it before reacting too harshly. Do you really want to no show to the next session, or do you want to get him back?

[stopdog]

I have found taking breaks quite useful as well as telling the therapist to stop, in no uncertain or equivocal terms, doing the things that are not useful or that I dislike. There are times when a client simply must, in my opinion, clearly set the rules for the therapist. If the therapist brings up something I think is not useful - I give them a chance to explain why they are bringing it up - if they fail or cannot or refuse to explain in a satisfactory manner, I tell them I am not going to do so. And I move on. Without explanation and my consent, I do not let the therapist do whatever they want. I cannot compel the therapist to explain, but I can refuse to go along if they do not.
It has been quite useful for me.

It sounds like your T was getting it wrong in what he was saying about your lease. I can identify with that, my T sometimes picks on something and seems to me to be wildly off the mark with it. I get a bit wound up by it. At other times she is really helpful. I figure no T is going to get it right all the time. I too feel that I may be suggestible to what my T suggests and could lose sight of how I originally felt. I have said this to T but I'm not sure she has really got what I'm trying to say about it.

Is your T helpful at other times?

[scallion5]

I'm really having a hard time telling if my T is helpful at other times. I don't ever leave feeling "helped," and I am not - objectively speaking - getting "better" in terms of symptom relief. I have a great amount of difficulty in sessions and lots of emotions come up.

I guess I just don't understand what is "supposed" to happen and whether what is happening is therapeutic, and I don't trust my therapist enough to make those calls on what would be therapeutic or not. At the same time, I'm not a therapist so I don't really understand what T should be doing.

I just feel dissatisfied without any one reason. I feel disappointed that it's not helping and I feel hopeless, like I'm just not going to be able to change.

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

It sounds like your T was getting it wrong in what he was saying about your lease. I can identify with that, my T sometimes picks on something and seems to me to be wildly off the mark with it. I get a bit wound up by it. At other times she is really helpful. I figure no T is going to get it right all the time. I too feel that I may be suggestible to what my T suggests and could lose sight of how I originally felt. I have said this to T but I'm not sure she has really got what I'm trying to say about it.

Is your T helpful at other times?

[scallion5]

I don't think he had an ulterior motive, I just think he abruptly changed the topic and then didn't seem to care that it was upsetting me.

...Well, whose projection is it? I wasn't aware of feeling concerned and didn't walk in feeling concerned about it at all. He's the one that raised the topic and he's the one who said he thinks I'm concerned. Maybe he's concerned and projecting it on me? While I understand there's a lot of room for "whose emotion is this?" - that's a game I'm frankly sick of. I didn't raise the lease, he did. To me, that says it was on his mind - not mine. Which, to me, means the emotions he attributes to me are, perhaps, his - not mine.

Yeah, I agree wrt the abandonment thing. Although, I wasn't drunk. Two beers over five hours does not a drunk-Scallion make; though I'm sure it had a role in lowering my impulse control. I was late - the second time in four years, as I was at a company-mandated social event and mid-conversation.

I don't want to 'get revenge' or 'get back' at him. If anything, what I really want is to go back and somehow have it work. At what point do I stop 'throwing good money after bad,' or hoping and hoping - with little improvement to show? How do I measure this? How do I ensure that I'm getting the best treatment possible? Honestly, I don't even understand this psychodynamic approach except that he doesn't explain very much and I feel very alone in it all.

I want it to work and I want to feel better. I don't want to spend most of my time outside therapy wondering what I can do to try and make that happen.

Maybe I am angry and I do want to 'get back' at him for being a kind of snake-oil-salesman? It is hard to have so much hope invested in something (along with thousands upon thousands of dollars) and still be in the same place, and knowing that - if he's a good therapist - then the only reason why I'm still feeling this way is ME. And I am just flummoxed about how to go about getting out of this state. I feel really scared that I'll never be happy again, to be honest.

And, I imagine him being quite happy and relieved over the holiday break - not having to deal with clients, in his new home, with all his expensive stuff...while I write out another check and wish that my life were better.

It just seems - in this warped imaginary story I'm telling myself - that I'm being used. I'm giving, but I'm not getting anything out of it.

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I guess I don't think that your therapist would have some kind of ulterior motive for asking about your lease. Seems more likely he was trying to chat about what he remembered you had going on... moving is kinda a big deal for some people. It seems like maybe you were concerned about the lease and projecting that feeling onto him?

I think when a therapist leaves for vacation clients often get mad. You even say above it feels like abandonment... my thought is that's probably the bigger issue going on. You showed to the last session late and drunk and probably a bit angry about the upcoming break. I would just think about it before reacting too harshly. Do you really want to no show to the next session, or do you want to get him back?

[scallion5]

I like this.

One question though, how do you decide whether something will be useful or not?

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have found taking breaks quite useful as well as telling the therapist to stop, in no uncertain or equivocal terms, doing the things that are not useful or that I dislike. There are times when a client simply must, in my opinion, clearly set the rules for the therapist. If the therapist brings up something I think is not useful - I give them a chance to explain why they are bringing it up - if they fail or cannot or refuse to explain in a satisfactory manner, I tell them I am not going to do so. And I move on. Without explanation and my consent, I do not let the therapist do whatever they want. I cannot compel the therapist to explain, but I can refuse to go along if they do not.
It has been quite useful for me.

[NowhereUSA]

I think there's a lot more going on here than I can figure in a single post. If you don't want to go though, I think you should at least cancel, not just not show up.

That said, I know even when I've only had a couple of drinks, I have a shift in cognitive abilities (people often think they don't which is how we end up with people driving under the influence). So, I think going if for no other reason than getting clarification would be worthwhile.

Did you say you had been seeing him for four years? That puts a different slant on it.

[scallion5]

Hi Brown Owl,

Yes, actually a little more than 3.5, but I rounded up. I'm curious what slant that gives instead?

-Scallion5

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

Did you say you had been seeing him for four years? That puts a different slant on it.

[scallion5]

Thanks, NowhereUSA. I agree - it's pretty rude to just no show (especially as I see him later in the day, not sure if I'm the last appointment or not)

I agree that the couple of drinks had a lot to do with the way the session went, but I still wouldn't describe it as "drunk" or showing up drunk. Note: we had a session *after* the "couple drinks" session where we just didn't even talk. I hadn't imbibed before that session!

Originally Posted by NowhereUSA

I think there's a lot more going on here than I can figure in a single post. If you don't want to go though, I think you should at least cancel, not just not show up.

That said, I know even when I've only had a couple of drinks, I have a shift in cognitive abilities (people often think they don't which is how we end up with people driving under the influence). So, I think going if for no other reason than getting clarification would be worthwhile.

[Lauliza]

I don't know exactly what is supposed to happen in therapy, but in my opinion, the purpose of therapy is to get help for issues that you struggle with on your own. In the long term, therapy should affect your life in a positive way. If you do an inventory of your life since beginning therapy and see no improvement or that things have gotten worse, then that would tell me that something's not working.

I agree with StopDog too that if your T brings up something that's off the mark then say something. It's totally fine to ask your T why they bring something up. Often they'll take note of something that was significant in prior sessions and will follow up. If you don't want talk about it or if the situation was resolved just tell them. Ts usually won't run sessions on casual chit chat because many clients don't need or want to spend time and money on that (especially if they have people in their life to chit chat with for free).

[Syra]

I've had something similar. Part of me says - those are really bad red flags, and have felt the same "why am I paying for this" thing that you said. And part of me says - if you leave after a big red flag, if things have otherwise been good, I wonder if you will second-guess yourself. That's what happened to me - except I didn't leave after the first red flg, I left after several red flags, talking about it that never resolved anything. And I still feel lousy about things not being resolved. That hurts all by itself.
The question of when to leave (be it therapy, a spouse, a fiance, abusive parents) and when to keep trying is a hard one. I wish there was an easier
answer.

[missbella]

In my opinion, if therapy disintegrates into interpersonal conflict rather than self-exploration, I'd seriously question being there.

I also believe that personal respect should be fundamental. Being a therapist doesn't excuse anyone from being a jerk or exempt him from basic human courtesy. If I would not like the behavior from anyone else in my life, it's not OK coming from a therapist.

I would abhor anyone telling me what I'm thinking or feeling. Likewise badgering me on a subject. The therapist isn't omniscient and shouldn't pretend to be. We're the sole authority regarding our own lives.

Therapists are no more than regular people who went to school and got degrees. They're not mind readers, possess any special status or powers or are necessarily smarter or know anything about life we don't. They're merely paid for a service. Anyone pretending otherwise is out of line in my opinion.

Originally Posted by scallion5

Hi Brown Owl,

Yes, actually a little more than 3.5, but I rounded up. I'm curious what slant that gives instead?

-Scallion5

I have only been seeing my T for a number of months, so I don't know what that length of time feels like. Have there been positives in the nearly four years? Have you felt helped? Do you feel in any way changed?