Reminder: We don't question other people's experiences or history

The terms of service specify that already.

From the community guidelines:

Glad you found that then.

Good Heavens, I've participated in enough different on-line communities to recognize that there are a number of ways to maintain multiple accounts/personas. Generally all sites can do is ban by IP address, but that won't stop anyone who is determined and somewhat technically savvy to create new addresses. There is no substitute for astute judgement, and the reality is that there will always be a degree of risk involved. If reminding members of community guidelines and deleting threads which violate such guidelines is treating posters as children, more invasive and pro-active actions by moderators would be doubly so. It is not the site's job to caretake participants.

My impression is that this site is remarkably free of trolls, and that is an achievement. To expect it to act as a protective parent is unrealistic. To cast it in the role of a punishing parent is, I think, equally unrealistic.

This whole thread and issue are an enigma.

The trouble is that in this kind of thread they are casting themselves in the role of punishing parent, and I think it is natural that people might see an unbalance and unfairness where we are 'told off' for questioning a poster's authenticity, yet any dishonesty goes unchecked. I think it was lickety that pointed out that for a lot of people on this board, not being allowed to question and call out dishonesty replays situations from many of our pasts.
I'm not saying there is an easy answer to this, but I feel sure that censorship of the other thread is not the answer. Especially as people were taking care not to name individuals.

Echos, I guess I don't read the OP's use of "we" as a euphemism. I read it at face value, that "we" includes both posters and admin. So I don't react to the post as coming from a punishing parent. Some of the suggestions here are that PC somehow patrol members in such a way as to prevent situations of suspicion arising. I think that would be stepping into a parental role, and that I would find condescending. Putting the responsibility back onto posters to handle our individual reactions to content seems functional to me. Trying to make the community in some way answer for our reactions seems infantilizing to me. Posters post content others may find objectionable for a variety of reasons every day; but there is an assumption that everyone has an equal choice to post, read, and respond--as well as an equal choice not to post, read, and respond. I've been involved in community boards that tried to run in a purely democratic self-moderating way, and they usually self-destruct. The bigger and more public the board, the more likely it is to need moderation. At the end of the day, I think there has to be an organizing presence whose goal is to maintain whatever the community standards are in as fair and equitable a manner as possible. Sometimes ending a discussion which will not find resolution within standards is the only option.

I can certainly see that point of view, feralkittymom and I must confess I don't envy the mods having to untangle all of this. The nature of these boards is that they are very fluid and I suspect this will blow over fairly quickly (at least in terms of its presence on the board-perhaps it may take some time for some of the more emotionally involved PCers to process this, and to them).
I think the positive thing that has emerged is that we have all been reminded that a healthy degree of skepticism is required in all of our online relationships.

I apologize if the tone of my note was offensive.

I forget human curiosity is innate. And so, too, it seems is skepticism. But when multiple members express such skepticism publicly, it can feel like the member is being ganged up on. It can feel neither safe nor supportive.

We have no way of verifying a member's story, nor is that our role here. So I take everything others tell me at face value, until they've shown me that something they're telling me is not true. If I fear the person is not being entirely honest with me, I'll usually end my interactions with them. Life is too short (for me, anyway) to interact with dishonest people.

As per a few requests, we've returned the (now closed) Amy's Journey thread, minus most of the questioning/skeptical comments at the end.

Haven't a clue what any of this is about. Thank gawd.
*pats self on back*

I'm unaware of the exact circumstances that necessitated this post, but from what I gather there is some suspicion surrounding the legitimacy of a member and the potential gathering of gifts and/or monies under possibly false pretences? I agree people shouldn't be jumped on based on assumptions or gut feelings; however, I've just been through a situation myself where a so called 'close friend' on another support forum was found to have been running an almost 12 year scam pretending to have a long term and ultimately terminal illness. Not only did she rip people off for thousands of dollars worth of fundraising donations and gift packages that were sent, she also completely betrayed the trust of a lot of people who went out of their way to devote an enormous amount of time and emotional energy into caring for someone they thought was dying. Her scam was revealed when some holes in her story, along with traceable stolen photos she had taken from legitimately sick people's blogs and tried to pass off as her own. Questions were first raised on a private forum, and despite the stolen photos and inconsistencies, there were a few of us who had been particularly close to her (as well as deeply invested in what we thought was a true friendship with someone we were preparing to one day lose) and we felt we needed more evidence before we could make a judgement call of that magnitude. Well we got the evidence, as a matter of fact so much evidence was accrued against her that there was absolutely no doubt that we'd all been conned, it was irrefutable. Once we had an airtight case against her some of us decided to go public with it - we correlated every bit of evidence we had against her and directed as many people as we could towards it, a website was set up where the evidence was laid out in full, the moderators and admins of forums and groups she was known to frequent were notified, and eventually the police and legal advisers were contacted regarding possible criminal proceedings.

I had to eventually step away from all the chaos and hurt that came out of the above, because it just got too much. This was someone I had known on and off for over a decade, and who I had considered a very dear and trusted friend, and she had lied to me, repeatedly, in all that time - and not only lied, but scammed, manipulated and emotionally abused other people I also cared a lot about. Once I felt I had done what I could to try and warn and protect others, I decided I had to let the whole thing go for the sake of my own health and stability - legal proceedings were potentially underway as it was, so there wasn't much more that could be done as it was. I guess my point is I do understand what it's like to be suspicious of someone, or to have your worst fears confirmed and to find out that someone you trusted wasn't so trustworthy after all, and I get that if this is something you've already been through at least once then you do tend to become a lot more wary and mistrusting in future. The thing is though it's no use throwing accusations, casting aspersions, or even voicing potential suspicions until you have some solid evidence to back things up. Otherwise you inadvertently play into the scammer's hands, because you end up looking like a potential bully who's jumping down this poor person's throat for no good reason. The best way of handling a situation like this, in my personal opinion, is to make sure you gather as much evidence as possible and then in this case, turn it over to a PC Admin or Moderator and let them deal with things from there.

And just be clear, we don't allow members to fund raise for themselves or an organization they have a direct stake in here. If you ever come across someone asking for money on the forums, please report that post immediately so we can take care of it.

We hold occasional fundraisers for individual members when they go through our non-profit arm and fill out an application that is indeed checked.

DocJohn

Maybe you should start a subforum for Münchausen by Internet, since you encourage that here.

I think they like the increased page views from it. We are the product.

Not to go off topic or be difficult, but...

What if someone comes on here and gives a history that is obviously false? For example, says they are 30 years old and fought in WW2 and are pleading for help because their therapist doesn't remember them and they lost their bayonet on the flight home. In that situation would it be ok to point out to them they might be delusional, or should we just avoid the thread?

Or, a little more tricky, what if someone comes on here and says they were abused by aliens and their therapist doesn't believe them? I mean, could be, but likely not true. Just respond as if they are certainly telling the truth or avoid the thread?

I honestly don't know what to believe anymore, but I don't want to see you or anyone else hurt by this whole thing. For me, it all comes down to core issues of trust, betrayal and being silenced, which all of this has triggered. Right now, it's just too muddied to make sense of. Mostly, I'm just pissed at PC for the way it's been (mis)handled.

DocJohn, I don't know if I speak for anyone else..but I believe we need a thread to process our feelings of possible betrayal...a topic that has come up as a result of questions surrounding Amysjourney. It is a recurring issue/theme in my life.

Now I am hesitant to start such a thread. Where is my support?

Willowbrook, thank you for sharing all that you did. It sounds terrible and I'm so sorry it happened to you and others. I like to think, what Anne Frank wrote in her diary, that people are basically good at heart (sorry I forgot the exact phrase), but unfortunately that's not true.It's sad but that's the way the world is. To be betrayed like that can tear away your trust in anyone, but certainly teaches to be wary on the internet. Lots of hugs to you.

Usually may direct them to a forum where there will be others who have similar issues......but other than that.....I basically avoid those threads & let others who have similar thinking band together & share where they are coming from. In reality, it's usually not worth the time or the effort trying to tell them that they are delusional because they don't grasp that fact anyway. (might add a comment that it might be good if they were open with their T or pdoc about what they are experiencing....but that's about all.....& wish them the best of luck.

I had it happen in real life & everyone said that things like that just don't happen to a nobody person like your mom with a home care person.....claimed they only go after rich people....but her house was worth a great deal of money & even though I was never able to find out because the police didn't have enough evidence to file a case against her...it was pretty obvious what she was after. I caught most of what she was doing & was able to stop some.....but other things she got away with due to lack of evidence. We have to beward no matter where we are IRL or on the internet....but being aware doesn't mean one has to be frozen by it. No one says you can't do your own research when a gut feeling hits you & you can check other posts & put the pieces together in your own mind & make the determination if a red flag is flying in your face.....you can make your own wise decision as to whether a thread is fake or not & there is nothing in the guidelines that says you can't PM someone else & ask them what they think about what you found.....it just can't be posted in public. It doesn't stop us from handling it from a PM level if one feels that there is something not quite right. The support won't come from the thread postings themselves but it can come through PM's with those who are involved on the thread.....as long as it's kept private......then if many find something like the other lady.....you can then take it to the admin & they can handle it from there & do what research they are capable of doing.

In reality, the only thing that's understood now is that the posting can't be public on the public forum where the questionable action is taking place.....nothing stopping if from happening behind the scenes if there is any questionable action taken place.....how else do we protect ourselves if we don't investigate something we question......we just don't put our findings out on the public thread.

I guess your support ends where other ppl's could get hurt?
We (posters/mods) still don't know whether this poster's story is false. You might think so but you don't know it- the only person who knows is the one posting it (delusions aside).

I miss Amy, regardless of who she was or what her real story is. Her beautiful replies to some of my older posts when I was struggling helped get me through. I always wonder if there are any covert therapists here, helping us along.

Understood that many of those who were more involved with her feel duped. We may never know the whole story.

This is something i had to work out for myself. How to "be" on pc. At first, i felt as if i HAD to respond to everyone - i had the "right" answers, and it was my duty to tell people what those answers were. Then i started reading things that i did not have answers to. Fortunately around that time they came up with the hugs and thanks buttons!

But the simple answer is, like our moms were supposed to tell us, if you cant say something supportive, dont say anything at all.

You dont HAVE to answer every post. If you feel like you do, you may have some transference that you need to work out. If you ignore someone, it feels like youre being ignored, and you know how bad that feels. That is what a troll counts on.

I think is important to be true to yourself. People DO recognize and appreciate it.

No, not true. "Our moms" were only supposed to tell us that if we grew up in a specific culture. What you quote is a cultural script that is not universal, and in many cultures (including several English-speaking countries) that script is not part of correct or polite behaviour.

If that very specific cultural script is supposed to be a norm on this international discussion forum, the mods have to make that very clear. Because to many of us, that script is foreign; we can adjust to it, but it is not something we are supposed to know.

Unfortunately, we can't allow a thread to be started furthermore on this topic. We don't allow topics where members talk about other members here (and certainly not to engage in continued speculation about the veracity of their story).

If you feel betrayed by a member, you have a couple of choices. You can work it with them in private (if they're also interested in working it out with you). Or you can work it out with your therapist or friends via PM.

I would kindly ask members to remain on-topic in my thread, which is about respecting another member's story, even if you don't agree with or believe it. Remember, some of our members may be suffering from symptoms of a mental disorder that may include delusions or delusional beliefs. How validating is it to be told one's delusions aren't real and they're making it all up? To me, it's no different than someone telling a person who suffers from depression that their depression isn't real.

Thanks for your cooperation and understanding.

DocJohn

There is nothing either good or bad,
but thinking makes it so.

William Shakespeare, "Hamlet"