My best friend asked me to go with her to see THAT film. This is really not a constructive way to view therapy but I'm imagining a contract similar to the one that Anastasia, as the submissive was asked to sign:

Clause A: you may not text or email me between appointments.
Clause B: you may contact me if there is an emergency, I shall determine what an emergency is.
Clause C: you may not ask me personal questions.
Clause D: I will reveal some personal information to you relating to subjects of my choosing.
Clause E: When the appointed time is up you will leave the building promptly.
Clause F: you will pay me regardless of whether you attend the session with me, this includes when you have forewarned me that you are going on vacation.
Clause G: if you become distressed during your appointment there will be no physical contact between us, but you may take a tissue from the box provided.
Clause H: After our therapeutic relationship has ended, there will be no further contact between us.
Clause I: At times I may push you too hard, if you are nearing your limit of what you can bear, use the safe word 'teddy'. If you have reached your limit, use the safe word 'bear'.

Interesting. It does seem like therapy is like that sometimes.

How was THAT movie? I have heard so much negative stuff about it that it almost makes me want to see it. LOL.

[Ellahmae]

Best thing I've read all month.

Sigh. Sometimes I can't believe I pay for this.

[sailorboy]

Ha! Thanks for the laugh.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by puzzle_bug1987

Interesting. It does seem like therapy is like that sometimes.

How was THAT movie? I have heard so much negative stuff about it that it almost makes me want to see it. LOL.

Talking about that BDSM movie? Yeah I guess some people saying it looks like she is in abusive relationship. I say if two adults, in the privacy of their bedroom want to do whatever, are we gonna police what's wrong and right? Heck, argument can be made that the whole BDSM is pretty abusive no matter who does it or how.

Anyhow, as far as I can tell this is a fantasy and nothing less. No need to care for the characters as if reading a real story of real people and worry for them or see it as a tragedy or something. It's a vehicle for women experiencing some edgy and rough sex fantasies in safety of a book/movie.

[JustShakey]

I haven't read the book. I have read this: (snerk)


http://redlemonade.blogspot.com/2012...vol-1.html?m=1

Darnit, can't get the link to work... I think the profanity filters are messing it up...

You can get to it from here
http://redlemonade.blogspot.com/?m=1

[WrkNPrgress]

Originally Posted by Partless

Talking about that BDSM movie? Yeah I guess some people saying it looks like she is in abusive relationship. I say if two adults, in the privacy of their bedroom want to do whatever, are we gonna police what's wrong and right? Heck, argument can be made that the whole BDSM is pretty abusive no matter who does it or how.

Anyhow, as far as I can tell this is a fantasy and nothing less. No need to care for the characters as if reading a real story of real people and worry for them or see it as a tragedy or something. It's a vehicle for women experiencing some edgy and rough sex fantasies in safety of a book/movie.

BDSM is a consensual relationship wherein there is a safe word and the submissive has an equal amount of power if not more so. The sub 100% has the power too stop anything they don't like or want, and the terms are agreed upon in advance. I have a friend who is a part of that scene and she said a lot of people who have suffered abuse in their lives explore the community and consider it empowering because of that condition.

As far as I understand, the criticism against the story is that there is no consensual relationship. She uses the safe word, says stop and no and he ignores her. Furthermore he controls her everyday activities. Because she had no agency, that is abuse.

From what I understand a lot of the BDSM community is rather miffed that people are calling this " BDSM" at all.

And though I appreciate the joke, I'm also a little squicked out by the comparison between this and therapy.

[SkyscraperMeow]

As someone with an extensive background /affiliation with the BDSM community, one of my first impressions about therapy was how very much like a Dom/sub relationship it really is in many respects. And actually, how much a bad therapy relationship seems like a bad D/s relationship and how much a good one seems like a good D/s relationship.

I found this post funny, and closer to the mark than may be thought by some!

[WrkNPrgress]

I also found this critique:

BDSM is a community that believes in safety & comfort. Consent is always necessary, and partners take care of each other. After acts and roleplays, partners comfort each other to help transition out of that zone. FSOG does not include any of this. Mr. Grey gives Anastasia (a then-virgin) an ultimatum; to sign a contract or leave. She is sexually inexperienced (being a virgin) and he manipulates that to push her boundaries to make it seem like the sexually violent things he is doing to her are okay. There are instances where after an act, he is mad at her for being upset, but does not comfort her. He uses alcohol to sway her consent – this is by law rape. There is also an instance where she uses the safe word, yet he continues. That is consent being retracted, and Christian ignores the retraction of consent. That is sexual assault.
More at the source

[WrkNPrgress]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

As someone with an extensive background /affiliation with the BDSM community, one of my first impressions about therapy was how very much like a Dom/sub relationship it really is in many respects. And actually, how much a bad therapy relationship seems like a bad D/s relationship and how much a good one seems like a good D/s relationship.

I found this post funny, and closer to the mark than may be thought by some!

Fair enough, my point was more too how the film and story depict it.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by WrkNPrgress

BDSM is a consensual relationship wherein there is a safe word and the submissive has an equal amount of power if not more so. The sub 100% has the power too stop anything they don't like or want, and the terms are agreed upon in advance. I have a friend who is a part of that scene and she said a lot of people who have suffered abuse in their lives explore the community and consider it empowering because of that condition.

As far as I understand, the criticism against the story is that there is no consensual relationship. She uses the safe word, says stop and no and he ignores her. Furthermore he controls her everyday activities. Because she had no agency, that is abuse.

From what I understand a lot of the BDSM community is rather miffed that people are calling this " BDSM" at all.

And though I appreciate the joke, I'm also a little squicked out by the comparison between this and therapy.

Interesting view, thanks for sharing, especially with your insider friend too, appreciate the info.

[stopdog]

I can see the resemblance. Except I think the client can switch.

Then therapist can ask any question but the client does not have to answer.
The client gets to quit but the therapist may not find them to ask why
The therapist may not contact me outside of appointments except to change the schedule
The therapist may not touch the client even if it would reassure the therapist (and it does for some of them)

and so on

[SkyscraperMeow]

In real BDSM (not this 50 Shades stuff) the bottom has most of the power. They are the ones who set limits as to what is and is not acceptable. They are the ones with the ability to stop play if it exceeds their desires. In fact, they are almost always the ones who initiate activities and choose what activities they want to experience.

50 Shades is a perversion of BDSM because it removes the consent entirely and shifts the driving power to the top, not the bottom (which almost never happens in real life) in real life bottoms and submissives hugely outnumber dominants and good dominants are in high demand.

Having said that, 50 Shades is a work of fiction, so treating it like was ever supposed to be a manual for a healthy relationship is a bit silly. There's a lot of people getting their panties in a serious bunch over a book which was written for a bit of fun and ended up getting a lot more exposure than the author probably ever bargained for.

Puzzle I see the story as a relationship/love story with some graphic sex. The film started well, but became mediocre. Anastasia never agrees to sign the contract, and the story, over the three books (which I have read) is essentially about her refusing to have the relationship on his terms, he feels he cannot have a relationship on any other terms as he has to be in control, for instance she is not allowed to touch him, he is initially incapable of a relationship on equal terms, but eventually agrees.

Partless I did care about the characters, I cried at one point, and I do view the story as having elements of tragedy.

Stop dog, I liked your post showing how the boundaries control the T's behaviour too, I guess you could relate this to work n progresses post stating that the sub has the power in the relationship.

I'm glad many have enjoyed my post, and sorry that some may have been squicked. It's not a comfortable way to view therapy.

Even though I had no idea what movie you were talking about (until SM mentioned the title in a later post), and though I see no actual resemblance to therapy in your list of items, and though it is not a film I would want to watch nor a book I would be interested in reading, I found your post very interesting, Brown Owl. I like to see different people's different takes on things - especially when I'm not too invested in a point of view

That's only half the the therapeutic story.
There's more to it than that.

I look forward to discussing fifty shades with T and telling her that I feel like a submissive in her office.

[Partless]

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

Partless I did care about the characters, I cried at one point, and I do view the story as having elements of tragedy.

Oh I see. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, but read summary of it and have looked at some reviews and discussions of the movie and that's where I saw some people talking about it working better as fantasy than real story (complaining about superficial characterization and other aspects of the story that were unlikely or far fetched). So I used the fantasy argument as a way to bypass the discussion about whether it was more BDSM or abuse stuff.

But having read the books yourself, you're obviously in a very good position to form an opinion about its merits. My information is secondhand.

This discussion reminds me of Bill Hicks talking about how people get all excited when semi-porn enters the mainstream culture. Did we forget that we can get actual porn? He used the example of Madonna selling a 'sex book' for 15 dollars and pointed out that you could actually HAVE sex for that much.

Originally Posted by Partless

Oh I see. I haven't read the book or seen the movie, but read summary of it and have looked at some reviews and discussions of the movie and that's where I saw some people talking about it working better as fantasy than real story (complaining about superficial characterization and other aspects of the story that were unlikely or far fetched). So I used the fantasy argument as a way to bypass the discussion about whether it was more BDSM or abuse stuff.

But having read the books yourself, you're obviously in a very good position to form an opinion about its merits. My information is secondhand.

I'm probably one of very few who cried though - mainly the movie theatre was full of laughter, girls having a night out, the movie was not taken very seriously. It kind of hit a nerve for me when Anastasia cried. And I think I might have talked up the books, its pretty rubbish romantic fiction really, I think there was a lot of lingering eye gazing, that sort of stuff.

Originally Posted by _Mouse

That's only half the the therapeutic story.
There's more to it than that.

Mouse I know. And I think the boundaries are totally necessary (especially after reading on here of how it can go wrong for people without them). I think control is a bit of an issue for me - being controlled as a child (I elected to be submissive to survive, not a submissive though), and the issue of control is there in my relationship with my T to be worked on. (You may remember my recent posts about me wanting less analysis, more space for me to talk about things I want to, that could be looked at in terms of control).

[Myrto]

Originally Posted by WrkNPrgress

BDSM is a consensual relationship wherein there is a safe word and the submissive has an equal amount of power if not more so. The sub 100% has the power too stop anything they don't like or want, and the terms are agreed upon in advance. I have a friend who is a part of that scene and she said a lot of people who have suffered abuse in their lives explore the community and consider it empowering because of that condition.

As far as I understand, the criticism against the story is that there is no consensual relationship. She uses the safe word, says stop and no and he ignores her. Furthermore he controls her everyday activities. Because she had no agency, that is abuse.

From what I understand a lot of the BDSM community is rather miffed that people are calling this " BDSM" at all.

And though I appreciate the joke, I'm also a little squicked out by the comparison between this and therapy.

Yes. This is my issue with the novel.
Also the writing is terrible (I've read excerpts, just to know what all the fuss was about). Shame that this is what most people think constitute fanfiction.
There are some really great fanfictions out there. 50 Shades isn't one of them.

[ThingWithFeathers]

Originally Posted by Myrto

Yes. This is my issue with the novel.
Also the writing is terrible (I've read excerpts, just to know what all the fuss was about). Shame that this is what most people think constitute fanfiction.
There are some really great fanfictions out there. 50 Shades isn't one of them.

This.

IMHO the Australian morning show host who said it is domestic abuse dressed up as erotica was spot on.

Good fan fiction? Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality! lol - no, seriously

[Partless]

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

I'm probably one of very few who cried though - mainly the movie theatre was full of laughter, girls having a night out, the movie was not taken very seriously. It kind of hit a nerve for me when Anastasia cried. And I think I might have talked up the books, its pretty rubbish romantic fiction really, I think there was a lot of lingering eye gazing, that sort of stuff.

I sometimes take time to reflect on scenes that make me real emotional. Sometimes movies have a way of going beyond words, beyond defenses we build, and get to that vulnerable side inside of us. They're amazing (and sometimes scary) for that reason. So something in the movie connected with you at a deeper level, something tragic. Maybe you saw deeper into it than did the crowd.