[knicksgirl]

Hi all, I just got my test results back a few weeks ago and although I've been trying to do a bit of research myself, it's hard to find the time to sort through everything for useful information.

I have very large discrepancies between my verbal comprehension score and literally everything else. To give you an idea, my VC score was 152 and my perceptional reasoning, working memory, and processing speed scores were 114, 111, and 107 respectively.

I'm a high school graduate taking a gap year before I start college and I'd love to look into what this means for me academically and what I can do to make things as easy for myself as possible.

I don't want to take up too much of anyone's time, but essentially my question is this: although clearly none of you know me and test results can't be interpreted the same way for everyone, what does this kind of gap generally mean?

[pmbm]

I work with people with learning disorders, and while I am not a clinical psychologist (so I cannot diagnose learning disabilities), I can point you in a couple of directions. Your verbal comprehension score is very high. The rest of your scores are in the average range, so even though there is a large discrepancy, you are not scoring so low it means that you do not have skills in those areas. I have seen spreads like that be diagnosed as nonverbal learning disorders. Look it up and see if it fits.

[ragsnfeathers]

I should be off the computer but I have to respond to this as it's what I've been grappling with myself. My vc is 131, pc 103, wm 130 and PS 103 but my pc subtests are all over the map, along with some additional tests I took.

As you know, you're verbal score is really high and the discrepancies are big. This is consistent with Nonverbal Learning Disabilities if you have the problems associated with them. I do. Do you? It's also consisted with giftedness so only you know if you also have NLD characteristics enough to be a problem. These range from not being able to pick up nonverbal clues easily, including socially, to doing things slowly, to having bad body coordination. Google NLD or NVLD. I was on an NLD forum once and we were puzzling over why the discrepancy by itself indicates LD's if the lower scores are in the normal range.

Some thoughts:

Last week I was talking to my therapist about this and we figured out that I wasn't doing the performance subtests like most people do. I was using my verbal reasoning to do nonverbal tests. This, and the fact that for me a quiet, structured environment is my optimum, skewed the results to an unknown extent.

Related, with that large of a discrepancy the lower scores may not be as available to you so they function like LD's. My t explained it this way: my verbal understanding operates so much faster than my nonverbal understanding that my mind has trouble integrating it.
If you took any tests for executive functioning (trail-making is one) look at those, too. That shows how well you put the various aspects together.

You have gifts but if you are experiencing the problems that can come with that kind of discrepancy it's really good you're finding out now so you not only can learn how to maximize your effectiveness at life but more importantly so you don't blame yourself for your struggles like so many of us in my generation did (and, unfortunately in many cases still do).

People have gotten accomodations at the university level for this such as note-takers and longer times to take tests, if that's what you need. There will also be many people, including people who should know better, who will see your verbal skills and won't believe that you have other problems (if you do). Hard. Hopefully people who are tested early like you and are more aware earlier will have an easier road.

I hope this helps. If I can help more ask me questions and I'll do my best to tell you what I know.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by pmbm

I work with people with learning disorders, and while I am not a clinical psychologist (so I cannot diagnose learning disabilities), I can point you in a couple of directions. Your verbal comprehension score is very high. The rest of your scores are in the average range, so even though there is a large discrepancy, you are not scoring so low it means that you do not have skills in those areas. I have seen spreads like that be diagnosed as nonverbal learning disorders. Look it up and see if it fits.

I hope I'm not going too far off topic, but can you suggest a link re:nonverbal learning disorders? My T once suggested I may have this.

Do any of you know what order the parts of the test are given in? I'm curious because I had to take the WAIS some years ago as part of a disability evaluation, and I remember that I did well for the first part, and by the end I was an exhausted wreck and could barely think.

[divine1966]

All your other scores are still in average or high average range there is no disability, so I am not sure why people even suggest disability? Sure your performance iq is lower than verbal, but your performance iq is still high. Just iq by itself cannot determine disability.

Were you were given achievement tests (for example woodcock Johnson) of your iq is that high but your Academic achievement is not there then maybe there is something.

I am not sure why people suggest you can get accommodations in university. Just based on your iq? But it is high or high average or average in all aspects.

Why were you given the test?



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Wow. I just read a couple of summaries of NLD and typical problems associated with it. It was emotional and eye-opening. I found several things there that I either still do or have problems with, plus a lot of things that I worked really hard as a child to learn to do.

So the next time someone asks me how anyone over 3 can be as bad at "Draw Anything" as I am, I'm going to tell them that I have NLD.

I know that you were writing to the original poster, but I also had that kind of gap in my WAIS scores. If I understand correctly, that kind of gap MAY mean that you have a nonverbal learning disability. The score gap would indicate a need for further testing to see if you do and what kind.

I'd be interested to know why the processing scores are still normal. My guess would be that those parts of the test included tasks that the taker did well at and parts at which they were awful.

[divine1966]

Op's performance iq score is too high to claim disability even if there is discrepancy

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[ragsnfeathers]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I hope I'm not going too far off topic, but can you suggest a link re:nonverbal learning disorders? My T once suggested I may have this.

It's been a long time since I looked online but I remember one site in particular which was really good, NLDline. Unfortunately I just tried it again and the 2 parts I tried to open got the "malicious virus" popup warning. When I'm at the library I'll look at the other sites I used to use. This was 10 or so years ago so there are probably newer sites. I'll try to compile a list later.

[ragsnfeathers]

........

Originally Posted by divine1966

All your other scores are still in average or high average range there is no disability, so I am not sure why people even suggest disability? Sure your performance iq is lower than verbal, but your performance iq is still high. Just iq by itself cannot determine disability.

If it's not just the scores but also the general functioning, that kind of discrepancy is indicative of a disability. Re my t who is a psychologist and re other specialists. Read my original response more carefully; I gave some possibilities as to why, but from my active participation in a NLD forum years ago I can tell you that this is real and serious, even when the lower scores are in the average range.

It doesn't necessarily show up on achievement tests. A lot of us do well in school, which plays to our strengths and allows us to complete a lot of the work on our own, taking the time we need and in our optimal environment. Jobs require the ability to work fast, tolerate interruptions, read nonverbal signals, etc. They assume fairly even across the board skills and assume you're slacking when you can't deliver that. A lot of us with NLD excel in school and struggle with life. Others struggle in school even though they have the general ability.

I gave some possible reasons why but whatever the reason, high score scatter is often more than the sum of its parts.



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[ragsnfeathers]

Sorry for making my response part of the quote. I kept getting and getting my response rejected because "it's too short". I did what I thought I needed to for it to post.

[ragsnfeathers]

Originally Posted by jo_thorne

Do any of you know what order the parts of the test are given in? I'm curious because I had to take the WAIS some years ago as part of a disability evaluation, and I remember that I did well for the first part, and by the end I was an exhausted wreck and could barely think.

My test was spread out over 2 days so I never got tired.

[ragsnfeathers]

Originally Posted by jo_thorne

I know that you were writing to the original poster, but I also had that kind of gap in my WAIS scores. If I understand correctly, that kind of gap MAY mean that you have a nonverbal learning disability. The score gap would indicate a need for further testing to see if you do and what kind.

I'd be interested to know why the processing scores are still normal. My guess would be that those parts of the test included tasks that the taker did well at and parts at which they were awful.

I can't speak for the op but for me, yes. My individual percentages ranged from over 99% to under 10%. But even in areas where my scores were average I have trouble in real life for reasons I'm just beginning to understand.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by knicksgirl

I have very large discrepancies between my verbal comprehension score and literally everything else. To give you an idea, my VC score was 152 and my perceptional reasoning, working memory, and processing speed scores were 114, 111, and 107 respectively.

Your writing style indicates that you are very well read. Could the large difference actually be due to all the reading you do rather than a learning disability?

[scorpiosis37]

As others have suggested, the fact that your scores are all average or above average means that you do not have a disability. There is a disrepancy which can be frustrating when you perform better in one area than another. It may be helpful for you to read about NLD and see how you relate, on a lesser scale, to those who suffer from NLD. But I do think it's worth recognizing that your scores do not place you in the disability category. I only say this because for those of us who have struggled with a diagnosed disability, there really is a difference between a discrepancy in scores and a true disability. I did my testing when I was 17 so I can't recall my exact scores, but I do remember my doctor explaining that I was in the 99% percentile in every category except one-- I was in the 13% in processing. Whatever that translates to in numbers, it was well below 50% or average. Because I was gifted in other areas, I'd gone years with no one believing that I was having trouble with processing. Even after getting my paperwork documenting my learning disability, I suffered a lot of descrimination and professors who tried to refuse me my accommodation (50% more time on exams). I made it all the way through a PHD, but I struggled with things no one around me was ever able to understand, and I was routinely told that my disability wasn't real or, even worse, my peers would say , "oh, I'm a slow reader too" or "oh, I think I have that, too." It can be invalidating when you have a disability and others minimize your struggle by saying they have it too, when they are still within the average range.

[The_little_didgee]

Here is a good NLD website: Home

[ragsnfeathers]

Not true. I have a diagnosed disability not based on my low scores but on my large discrepancies. For some reason large discrepancies can act like ld's.

I feel for you. I had and have very similar problems, not so much in school but in life. I wish I was diagnosed earlier.

And no, it was not caused by reading a lot. I suspect it's the reverse: if reading is your strongest point you end up there. In my case I've spent a lot of time trying to do other things well. Just have little to show for it.

I understand well how it's invalidating for people with problems in the normal range think it's the same as having a disability. It's just that big discrepancies often do function as bona fida disabilities.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by ragsnfeathers

And no, it was not caused by reading a lot. I suspect it's the reverse: if reading is your strongest point you end up there. In my case I've spent a lot of time trying to do other things well. Just have little to show for it.

I'm familiar with NLD and know it isn't caused by reading a lot. I asked the original poster just to consider the possibility that reading can influence the score. Anyway someone who reads a lot will generally have a more extensive vocabulary than someone who does not.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

As others have suggested, the fact that your scores are all average or above average means that you do not have a disability. There is a disrepancy which can be frustrating when you perform better in one area than another. It may be helpful for you to read about NLD and see how you relate, on a lesser scale, to those who suffer from NLD. But I do think it's worth recognizing that your scores do not place you in the disability category. I only say this because for those of us who have struggled with a diagnosed disability, there really is a difference between a discrepancy in scores and a true disability. I did my testing when I was 17 so I can't recall my exact scores, but I do remember my doctor explaining that I was in the 99% percentile in every category except one-- I was in the 13% in processing. Whatever that translates to in numbers, it was well below 50% or average. Because I was gifted in other areas, I'd gone years with no one believing that I was having trouble with processing. Even after getting my paperwork documenting my learning disability, I suffered a lot of descrimination and professors who tried to refuse me my accommodation (50% more time on exams). I made it all the way through a PHD, but I struggled with things no one around me was ever able to understand, and I was routinely told that my disability wasn't real or, even worse, my peers would say , "oh, I'm a slow reader too" or "oh, I think I have that, too." It can be invalidating when you have a disability and others minimize your struggle by saying they have it too, when they are still within the average range.

Thanks for posting it. I was concerned that people were telling op she has a disability. Based on what?

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[unaluna]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Here is a good NLD website: Home

Thanks for this! This excerpt certainly explains a lot for me.

FROM THE WEBSITE:
Remember that watching you do something is not the best way for your child to learn. Instead, instruct them in a step-by-step manner. Reminder lists of even basic tasks such as daily hygiene and simple chores are very helpful. It is all right to point out to them what they may not yet have recognized about themselves, i.e., "You do much better when you know what's going to happen than when you get unexpected surprises." Constructive suggestions rather than criticism work best.

[ragsnfeathers]

Supervisors need to know this too. And that it may take more than once to learn. And that clearly written manuals are the better. And that, when I was taught a procedure and did it for a few weeks and was then put back on it a few months later and forgot everything, that's not something I could control. In spite of my excellent grades. Those grades were gotten by different methods. Try to find an employer like that.

[ragsnfeathers]

To OP: I hope I'm not hijacking your thread. I really want to know what your take on all this is and how it all is for you.

[unaluna]

I was THE biggest dummy when i went to beauty school in my early 50's, surrounded by high school dropouts - but i was in the top 1 percent when i graduated high school (7th out of 710 students, big baby boomer class!). But in beauty school, i was clumsy (despite typing over 130 words per minute) and couldnt remember the processes. Definitely something wrong with this picture! I knew all those girls were "smarter" than i was - i could FEEL it - but i couldnt put my finger on it. Meanwhile i excelled at the written exams.

[ragsnfeathers]

Originally Posted by hankster

I was THE biggest dummy when i went to beauty school in my early 50's, surrounded by high school dropouts - but i was in the top 1 percent when i graduated high school (7th out of 710 students, big baby boomer class!). But in beauty school, i was clumsy (despite typing over 130 words per minute) and couldnt remember the processes. Definitely something wrong with this picture! I knew all those girls were "smarter" than i was - i could FEEL it - but i couldnt put my finger on it. Meanwhile i excelled at the written exams.

YES!!!!!! All the time!!!! Knowing the theory does not equal being able to apply it. And, there was a time when I would've killed for 1/2 your typing rate. Or even 1/3. And I was doing it 40 hours a week.