therapy double standard (is a T human or superhuman?)

I guess I just find that to be true of some of the more arrogant practitioners in every field, doctors, lawyers, plumbers, sommeliers.... I've always found there to be people like that, and people who aren't.

I concede though that certain branches of therapy do sell the "we know best" mentality, but I've never bought what they're selling, I mean, I think about therapists who can "cure" homosexuals as exemplary of that branch and just shrug all that ilk off as snake-oil salesman and quacks.

I guess I'm a little immune... I became an athiest before I got out of grade school: I never did buy into the idea of institutionally-conferred superiority.

The work I do I have customers who are not always very nice. I'm well trained to take the abuse and will respond to each person in a caring way, I try to cater how I sound to what they need but I am only human and sometimes I have to go home and cry or not know exactly how to handle something or even defer to someone I know is better at handling a certain type of person than I am. I see T a similar way.

It's painful to read any implication that abuse from therapists is the client's fault through ill manners or abusiveness. When I initiated my termination period, I was so circumspect I called one of my therapists privately, so I wouldn't surprise him or cause him discomfort in front of the other group therapy clients. The therapist was a bully to begin with, and really brought his insults on me when I tried to leave. His female co-therapist joined in.

There are surly customer service people, and snappish customers and I assume that goes for therapists as well. Except therapists know so much more material if they're inclined to be injurious.
(I'm sure you are very nice and recognize you have a difficult job.)

I hope this isn't aimed at me because I certainly didn;t mean to imply this.

A terrible, abusive T is in no way a clients fault and an abuse of the relationship. I was talkin g about regular relationships between T and client.

[quote=Partless;4446124]BudFox, well said, I agree. When it's convenient for them, they're superhuman, they want us to trust them with so much personal stuff and they share nothing of theirs, want us to rely on their expertise and authority, even challenge our autonomy and tell us how to think or feel about issues....

I guess I am fortunate that my T doesn't present herself as being superhuman. She doesn't tell me what is best for me. She gives me other perspectives that would be healthier for me (if I brought it up what I am doing is not working). She never tells me what is best or what I should do just things to consider. She has also mentioned various things in her life that aren't perfect (parenting, marriage, etc)

I think for me there is a distinction between "abusive" T's and those who mistakes.

My T has made mistakes with me and I see this as positive in some ways. It has helped me see that life is imperfect, but that I can acquire skills both in learning about my own reactions to such things and addressing the issues with T. If my T was perfect and never made mistakes then for me, this would not help me deal with others in real life post T.

But maybe this has to do with my T owning those mistakes and being willing to work through them with me.

For me the painful part is that I shared with the therapist some of my deepest pain and my darkest secrets. I have never done that with any doctor or plumber or lawyer or anyone else. He has that information. He wanted me to trust him with that and I did. I thought he was trustworthy and then it ended badly. At the time I thought I had good judgement about whether I could trust him. I thought I had a good therapist. I thought he would be honest with me always and help me and be there. He said he would be there until I didn't need him anymore.

I NEVER thought it would end like that. If there had been any clue to how things turned out I would not have opened myself up like that.

It's so confusing. Therapy is confusing. I know they're not perfect and I know they make mistakes and maybe it could be good if you can work through it, but that isn't always possible. Therapy can cause severe harm.

I didn't say anything about clients turning therapists bad. I said "inside out" by which I meant the T can be triggered and become more concerned with their own needs, which is entirely natural in some situations. But then the process implodes and the client is the one most likely to be harmed.

Pessimistic? How so?

I'm sure you mean well but this is pretty condescending. I never thought Ts should be on a pedestal. The idealization is built into the process, my T encouraged it, and certainly I was prone to it due to personal history. I think a critical point here is what misbella mentioned about "yearnings of parent-child bonding". I might have consciously resisted idealizing and worshipping my T, but very old and painful longings were getting triggered that were much more potent. And it came at a time of extreme vulnerability and loss in my life

Couldn't agree more. Would maybe move the relationship forward, make it stronger.

I was thinking more about when the process breaks down, there is a rupture, forced termination. And especially if the T not only fails to own mistakes but blames the client. Mine did that, subtly but systematically (as did other Ts). Do i think she is a bad person? Nope, just human. And that's me point...

I think people just can't or won't understand and it's frustrating, but I hope it's because they haven't been through something so painful (in therapy) because I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I really wouldn't.

I agree with all of this and I also agree about it being condescending. I do think people mean well and want to be helpful. Personally for me I think time is really the only thing that will heal this, just moving on and living life and getting far away from what happened. I know therapy will not help. I can't even talk about it there. And I don't want to. It would be a waste for me. I have other more important things to talk about.

Apologies, Jane. I misunderstood the point of your post about customer service. I consider the therapist-client relationship different, in its longevity, in its intimacy and in the fact clients understand therapy to be the place to let their pain and irrationality out.

Conversely rudeness to a customer service person is simply boorish.

You know nuttrustin, there are two aspects to this issue, one is about the T himself, one is about the whole enterprise of psychotherapy. Luckily you seem to have a T who has no obvious delusions about herself or her superiority. But in my experience the problem has been it's less the T individually and more the whole enterprise of psychotherapy, how it's been promoted, how people have been encouraged to understand and use it, and how therapists have not been quick to correct misunderstandings....

I can relate to everything you said. I am generally skeptical by nature and and not trusting of authority. And still I got totally caught up in the relationship with this T. Suffered "dizzying loss of perspective" as one writer said. She said she wasn't going anywhere and I could trust her and expose painful stuff.

And yet i now realize that I was attempting to trust someone that I did not truly know. She was playing a role. And then that trust was betrayed.

As the same writer said therapy can be "emblematic and paradigmatic" and have lasting consequences that exceed that of other relationships. ANd if trust is betrayed, how do you trust anyone after that?

Bud,
My harmful therapy reset everything I believed about trust, but not necessarily in a bad way.

Prior to my therapists' damage, I ascribed an "expert" status to them, and surrendered myself into their hands. I didn't realize they were merely people who'd taken some courses in school, played a role and had no special knowledge about life nor were any more emotionally aware than anyone else.

Now I'm much more active evaluating those I go to for advice and services. I listen and decide if my endocrinologist is thorough and seems to know her stuff. I get a second opinion if need be, and double check important things on the internet. I'm still interdependent on the many specialists around me, but the more important the service, the more vigilant I am that I receive quality advice.

That said, my judgment is never infallible, just as my service providers never are. I believe that's part of being human.

I'm with you on all of this. Nicely said. There is something cult-like in all this, almost as if the Ts themselves have lost perspective because of the conditioning and training they receive. Plus the group-think and need to protect the profession.

Challenge our autonomy… yea important thing you said there.

misbella, same here and well put. Though for me the increased vigilance now borders on mistrust of healthcare professionals and even hopelessness (but I have a long history with chronic illness and dead ends, and therapy was a tipping point in this regard).

As for no special knowledge about life, emotional awareness… I have been reading and thinking a lot about just that. My T and I could probably switch places and I think I could, if not formally analyze her, at least deconstruct the process and her role somewhat. The roles could almost be said to be arbitrary.

The famous analyst Ferenczi apparently tried this and called it "mutual analysis". The idea was to reduce the power imbalance and bring some honesty to the relationship.

I intend to seek 1 or more sessions with ex-T so I can attempt this, as a means to restore some dignity and personal power. Probably won't happen but I want to try. I would even like to suggest that T sit on the couch and I sit in her chair. The response to this alone would speak volumes.

I have a rare, persistent disorder and ran the gamut of treatment, raised and dashed expectations and misdiagnosis. Somehow none of these failed treatments had the same effect as therapy--maybe because there's a detachment to physical afflictions, and I wasn't blamed by doctors.

However, I again regret having being convinced my problems were in-my-head and I'd feel better given enough therapy. I wasted years prior to finding the partial physical improvements available through thyroid treatment and physical therapy.

I never received the slightest acknowledgement of error from my therapists and am glad I abandoned that hope. I net-researched early analysts on "negative therapeutic reaction," and nearly all writings were condemnations of patients. The authors were so certain of their own blamelessness and the massive defects of those who rejected them, I can't see any convincing someone like that otherwise. The logic is one big mobius strip.