[musinglizzy]

I sure wish I could come up with words to describe how it feels having my T take touch away. I have just not been in a good place lately and I have so much going on in my life, and she's the only real person, face-to-face person that I feel like I can get support from. I'm working on that but right now it is what it is. She offered me comforting touch for like five months and then just took it away just like that. I can't seem to come up with an explanation as to why this was so damaging. Except that any little bit of well-being I had, self-worth, is gone because of that. I know it's pathetic, but it is what it is again. She is a great therapist, and we worked so well together up until she took it away, and now I just sometimes feel like I can't trust her. I feel like I'm dirty, untouchable, not worthy of it. If anyone else has been in the same boat and has a way to articulate their feelings behind it I would love to hear. Because I just can't come up with a reason that this was so damaging to the point of being dramatic for me. I'm afraid I will never be able to let it go, I've been trying for five months. But I just can't seem to tell her what it meant to me and what it feels to me having it taken away abruptly without any discussion. I know I did nothing wrong, but I can't help but think that I did. And I just feel unworthy. It just hurts immensely, every single day. And my relationship with her seems to affect my relationships in my real life, which isn't right. It just hurts so much. And every session with her, I think about that every time. And I see her twice a week. I have talk to her about it until I'm blue in the face, but I don't think she understands. And I'm afraid you all here are tired of hearing about it. But I don't really have anyone else to talk to about it, when I know there are some people here who understand. I know there are people here who don't understand, and I really don't think it would be helpful to me to hear why it's not OK or why you think it's not beneficial. I'd really like to hear from people who feel the same way I do.

I've read a few of your posts on this and each time I read them, I want to send you virtual hugs.

It sure sounds really painful, and I can imagine how touch being taken away fuels the feeling that you're "dirty" or "untouchable".

(Hug)

[Leah123]

I don't think you should let go of the hurt.

The hurt is your sense of self-worth, of self-awareness.

If you bury it to be able to bear with her unprofessionalism, not only in this but in other episodes you've described, such as her insistence on justifying inconsistency in therapy, then I think you're giving away your power.

I know how powerful and healing touch can be, how grounding and caring and useful.

I hope you hold onto *yourself* more than her, to your own integrity which is most important- and I have a feeling it's at risk here if you give up on what you need to keep her, because you don't trust that the universe has anything better for you.

I don't understand either why you need to come up with why it's so damaging, because I think it's completely obvious.... and I think... deep down you really know that too. I conclude that because you've agonized over this for months and don't seem to have come to peace with it, and that's I'd say, is because

You're right Lizzy!!!

I do feel like you do- that losing touch, safe, therapeutic, appropriate touch, is deeply damaging, damaging to the client and damaging to the relationship. It's like a mother figure telling us we've outgrown loving hugs, that you reached some magical place after which that type of nurturing was bad for you, but that's not real life. In real life, those who care about us don't just cut us off from that necessary affection, not in healthy relationships.

[iheartjacques]

Makes me glad current t doesn't touch me. I don't think I could cope if that stopped.

[ruh roh]

I understand your pain, Lizzy. I just wish you could break free of this person and find a good therapist. Often, you'll defend her and say she's a good therapist and has been good for you, but the results (your hurt and confusion about your own worth) don't show that. The fact that she shut down discussion of this is enough to show she's not that great. You don't owe her anything just because she wants you to email or text between sessions, or because she lowered your co-pay. That doesn't give her license to send you on a spiral without complaint.

Could you consider looking around for a therapist to at least consult with? Maybe they can help refer you to someone who does somatic therapy or who can help you process what's happened so that you can get through it.

[atisketatasket]

I'm new here, but I just wonder why you think she's such a great therapist? She seems unprofessional, not just with touch but with other stuff you've mentioned, like last-minute cancellations. If you think she's great because she's helped you, there are other therapists out there who can help without creating drama.

You have mentioned insurance as a problem for seeing someone else, but might it not be possible to take a break from this one for a few months and try another therapist in the meantime? Just meeting someone who does things differently might help you have more perspective with the original therapist.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[rainbow8]

I understand and feel the same way you do about my T's touch. It satisfies something deep within me, and makes me feel safe and secure. She has tried to change the way we touch and I fear she will take it away again. At my last session, she wanted to put her hand on top of mine, or put it on my arm. She says the touching is for support. I know what I want, and that is to hold her hand, with me being in control. She thinks that might feed into my transference feelings for her.

So, after my session I emailed her that I was really upset that she tried to change the way we touch. I was scared she wanted to stop again! With my H so sick, I said this is NOT the time to change anything! I don't know why she didn't seem to understand, and why she would rather put pressure on my hand instead of just letting me hold her hand normally!

She emailed back and asked if can trust her that she's not taking touching away, but that she has to check periodically (especially since I am physically attracted to her her) to be sure the touch is helping me and not feeding the transference.

So, I understand! I need the touch the way it's been, as it satisfies something deep within me. I know it's a Mommy/baby thing. It's nothing to do with my "in love" feelings for her, but she's not sure of that.

I wish your T had handled the touch differently. I totally understand your pain. Maybe you can see a T who does body work or somatic experiencing for a consultation, to see if it would be helpful? Or at least to validate your needs?

Better yet, get a massage! The first time I got a massage while in therapy, I thought to myself, Oh my gosh a professional is actually initiating intimate touch with me. It took away some of the physical neglect from only being able to talk to someone...

[divine1966]

Even though I do not feel the way you do about t I do not trivialize or minimize how you feel at all. I know how it feels just maybe not with t.

I am sorry. I really wonder if she truly understands how you feel? And even if she refuses to touch could she give some other form of love to you? Like warm conversation or at least acknowledging how you feel? Have you told her how much you hurt?

I know others suggested that too but would you look for a t who offers touch?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BayBrony]

Leah said everything I wanted to say.
Your feelings are 110% normal. You don't need to justify them further!
Have you considered sharing your posts with your T so she realizes how deeply this has affected you???

I freely admit that I'm a person who is not in the least interested in a therapist's touch, but I do understand that this is a personal issue for me and that not everyone feels the same way--I get it that people often find touch in therapy as something healing and significant.

One of the things that has struck me about your struggle to deal with your therapist's change in approach is her refusal to allow you to discuss your sadness, anger, resentment and other feelings in regard to this change for as long as you need to do so. I understand that you believe in your heart that your therapist is a good therapist, but it troubles me that she doesn't get that it's YOUR therapy and that means that you get to talk about your feelings/reactions to therapy for as long and as often as YOU need to. It means that if you want to bring the topic up a thousand times, and then again for another thousand times, then that's what you need to do! I truly believe that it isn't up to your therapist to decide that she's tired of explaining why she's done what she'd done. It's her job to listen to you a million times, if that's what you need to do, in order for you to process and examine what lies beneath this hurtful betrayal . . . and I say "betrayal" because that's what it perhaps feels like to you. I get it that your therapist believes that she's made this change in approach because SHE feels that she did it for your benefit, but that's not how it feels to you. I think a big part of your hurt and confusion is because she hasn't allowed you to talk about what you feel you need to discuss--it's a repeat, a replication, of what you have experienced as a child when the adults you trusted shut you down and negated what you felt and experienced under their care. I wish she was strong enough and committed enough to understand that. Talking and revisiting themes in our lives is one of the most important things we can accomplish in therapy. We decide when it's time to move on because we've reached some closure or acceptance.

[Petra5ed]

Im so sorry. I don't think it's right. Everyone says a therapist should be consistent so they feel reliable, I think I would be in the same boat as you. My T hasn't withdrawn touch. I don't think he ever did so much touch with me though, just regular hugs for the most part ... Still I've been paranoid he would take hugs away if I divulge the wrong feeling, and when he hasn't it's improved my trust. I wish I was more help, other than to say don't best yourself up or say you're "pathetic" because I would react the same or worse and I'm not pathetic! If you ask me she screwed up.

[musinglizzy]

Thank you all for the support. I feel so pathetic for feeling this way, and I'm SO thankful none of you, even unintentionally, made me feel self conscious about how I feel. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. There are many posts, but the first post on this subject was titled Touch in therapy...it's gone. Or something like that. If you want to read it.

I would have been JUST FINE if she'd never started doing this. Things were going FINE. I was happy with her, the touch she did provide was a hug at the end of session, and I was happy with that. But when she'd sit by me and rub my back or let me lean on her shoulder....she'd play with my hair and rub my back and just let me CRY. The tears were hard to come by at first. She said she felt she needed to do this to help gain my trust in her and not feel so alone, and when she got that trust she wanted me to use my own internal resources. Actually, it felt like a betrayal of my trust. I was crushed. We argued back and forth by Email about it, and we spent two sessions talking about it. But she did say, in the end, she felt like this had a "beating of a dead horse quality." I was heartbroken. She said we were wasting therapeutic time bickering about this. After all that, for three months, I was shut down more than engaged, and three months later she said we haven't done therapy for three months, and maybe I need to consider finding someone else who would provide what I needed. She did say she understands I am one who needs touch. NO to massages. I've gotten gift certificates for them, I don't want them. I want touch, but only from people I know and trust. I have to see a physical therapist, and it took her months before she could touch me from behind without me jumping. So I find touch very therapeutic. And I've been obsessing over this since March. I've bought books, three of them, specifically ON touch in therapy. She loaned me, recently, Loves Executioner. Asked what I thought of it... and I told her it was ok, I didn't care much for the guy, but I told her he, a well known professional in her field, offered touch/holding when the situation required it. She said nothing. She does not know I have these books.

My T has been wonderful in other ways. I have UNLIMITED contact outside of session via text or Email, even phone if I want it. But I don't call. She self discloses enough to make me comfortable, and we have SO much in common, so we can talk about plants, poetry, paintings, music, astronomy, all these things if I just need an easy session. She knows. I have told her things I have told no one, and she takes it very well. her voice is calming. Sometimes I almost feel touch in her voice, but it's just not enough some times. She has had to cancel sessions, but finds me a space somewhere else when she can, which isn't easy, she has a full practice and I see her twice a week. She will text me pictures of things she knows I'd appreciate, even when on vacation. We both have plants from each others yards growing in our own. I don't always take advantage of it, but she has given a lot of herself, and given me a fair amount of her own time. She used to tell me she loves me, but she stopped that, too. Her hugs used to be long and warm and comforting, and now they are more limp, more times than not, and she stops them after a few seconds. She's making me feel so rejected, but will not tell me the real reason she changed. I just want to know. I've felt rejected my whole life, and finally found this person I felt like I loved enough to trust with anything. But I also know she is my therapist, and I've never asked her for more, nor would I ever. I don't think she's my mom, or wish that she was. She is my therapist. And until March, she was the most perfect T I could ever dream of. I just want to know what I did to change things. Yes, I want it back, but after the fit I threw, I know she'll never offer it again. I didn't throw a fit per se, but I got angry and defended myself. Part of me thought it was a test to set me off. Because anger is something I carry, yes, but never felt safe to show. I just miss it. I've been telling her some horrible things. I dissociate sometimes. That's when she started using the touch, when I would dissociate. Somehow I seem more able to stay in the moment now. This just looms over my head, it's the white elephant in the room. She is SO PERFECT to me in every other way. I hate to lose her over this, especially when I try to convince myself I'm overreacting.

I just can't understand why I can't let it go and move on. I wish she'd told me it was only a temporary gesture. I wish she'd told me she was going to end it. Instead, it took me almost a month to realize she wasn't providing it anymore, and I asked her why. Her initial response is in the post I referred to above. YES, it makes sense. BUT, I spend too much time worrying what's going to change next...because she's already proven she doesn't have to tell me first. I've been dying inside since this...but I just don't want to leave her. I think that would feel worse than I feel now.

Sorry I'm just responding now, I've not been on PC since I posted that. I was a bit afraid to read the replies. I will be gone for the afternoon, but will check PC tonight I'm sure. I'm so thankful for this place, and for all of you who just kindly keep putting up with me and all my whining..... love you all!

[Restin]

I think it would be helpful if you could speak of this with T, but I also see why maybe you can't bring it up because you fear the possible rejection. You've felt some rejection already by her not touching anymore, and don't want to risk more. I'm sure she is aware of her not continuing it, as any therapist knows how much effect it has whether they do or don't touch. Maybe she isn't quite with you on how much she means to you because you can't talk about it much, but you can't help that. It isn't your fault when you can't trust T. That comes out of your past. What I would do is what the others suggested. Try to see someone else, too. Not to replace this T... you're too attached to her to bear that now. But just to fill in some, and get help with your feelings.
Just saying for the future, but sometimes the second T becomes very important, too, and actually turns out to provide more sensitive therapy. I know this is so hard. No one can understand how hurt you can be when you aren't ready for T to make such a change, but you're in too deep just to drop her because she isn't up on her technique.

[Crescent Moon]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

I was crushed. We argued back and forth by Email about it, and we spent two sessions talking about it. But she did say, in the end, she felt like this had a "beating of a dead horse quality." I was heartbroken. She said we were wasting therapeutic time bickering about this.

She's making me feel so rejected, but will not tell me the real reason she changed. I just want to know.

This just looms over my head, it's the white elephant in the room.

Lizzy.. what I think is so bad about this whole thing is that she won't let you talk about it.

If you could talk about it with her for however long you needed to, even if she didn't go back to giving you the affection she took away, you very well might be able to find a place of peace with it.

Her not allowing you to talk about it in therapy seems dumb. It just makes it so she doesn't have to face her poor judgment. And it prevents her from having to be wholly aware of the pain her poor judgment has caused you. The other thing it does (for you to not be allowed to talk about it), is it has taken over your whole world. No resolution. Talking about it isn't beating a dead horse. It's tending to a wounded horse.

If there is any way you can find another therapist to discuss all this with, then that might help you resolve it for yourself.

[musinglizzy]

When this first happened, we spent two sessions talking about it, but then she seemed frustrated with me that I couldn't drop it. She said "I'm sorry you feel this way." What about "I'm sorry I didn't discuss it with you?" Anyway....since then, it's been brought up a couple times, she WILL let me talk about it if I want, but there's really nothing more to say. She knows all I have said here. It won't change anything. She won't tell me what made her decide to stop. Just that it was only temporary, and that touch in therapy, aside from a hug at the end, is not her modality. Well, it was! So I just want to clarify that she seemed defensive at first and didn't seem to want to talk about it any further, because we were wasting time...she called it a "red herring." But now if I bring it up she will talk about it, but doesn't tell me anything more than she's already said. I don't know what I expect to get by talking to her about it further...she just defends herself.

[Bill3]

Given that she says that touch is not her modality, has she said why she started it in first place?

[musinglizzy]

Because I was in such a dark place and feeling so alone and she thought it was the only way to reach me. I've been worse since.

[Bill3]

So touching helped, but after she stopped you became worse off than you were before touching started?

[AllHeart]

"She's making me feel so rejected, but will not tell me the real reason she changed. I just want to know. I've felt rejected my whole life, and finally found this person I felt like I loved enough to trust with anything."

This is what you need to tell her. She needs to help you understand why she did what she did. Her excuse of "that's not what I do" is fine, but why on earth did she start it to begin with?

"I just want to know what I did to change things."
Unless there is something we don't know about, you didn't do anything. It was all her. It is unacceptable of her to make you feel like you did something you shouldn't have.

Does she know how deep in the gutter you have been in since this happened? What does she attribute that to? She needs to understand that you need closure on this in order to move on. She should be able to see that anyway. Is she that broken herself, or is she so full of herself that she can't grant you peace of mind and admit she made the mistakes here? I know the relationship you have with her outside of this "incident" is great overall and I am thankful for that because you deserve good care. She does sound like a great t otherwise. But she needs to step it up and give you honest answers. It's high time because it's causing you too much damage.

[Lord protector]

Somehow I get the feeling that she has no idea how you feel about this. Like she just doesn't get it.

And you know, damnit, she should. Unless she is a crappy therapist.

This is a HUGE issue for you and, Imo, this topic should be all your therapy is about, right now.

You have to work this through, with her or another therapist. Your personal self-worth is in the tank because of her and this.

I would be exactly where you are, if this had happened to me. I completely understand where you are coming from.

I really agree with others that suggest that you consult with another therapist. Because you have to get through this. It's too big to just not. It is too big.

Hugs
Pam
(Gavinandnikki-having problemo with my account)

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by Bill3

So touching helped, but after she stopped you became worse off than you were before touching started?

yes I did.

[musinglizzy]

Do I want it back? Heck yeah. But I have also accepted that it will never happen. Especially now that she knows how much hurt it caused me, and still causes me about 5 months later.

I wish she'd tell me why. Exactly why. We were both going through a rough patch in our lives then. She was under a great deal of stress, and canceling sessions left and right, and I was having a hard time with the lack of consistency. I suppose perhaps that made her think I was too dependent on her and she quit, I don't know. She says she quit gradually. No, she did not. I kept a therapy journal, and could tell you every time she would sit by me for the last 5 minutes or so of a session, and it happened three sessions in a row, then never again. That's not gradual. I pretty much quit keeping a therapy journal at all after that, I planned to quit.

I hate that she couldn't tell me it was temporary. I hate that she took it away when I was in such a bad place, I would have appreciated some warning. But, I really wish that she'd told me. Instead of letting session after session go by and when I finally realized she wasn't offering that anymore, I questioned her about it. She says that behavior can foster regression and dependency. I told her I was not regressing. She agreed. I told her I was NOT dependent on it, that I appreciated it and after nearly a month, realized she stopped. She agreed I was not dependent, and said that's why I didn't need it. I wish she'd have apologized for not discussing it with me. Either before, during or especially after. I had to notice for myself, then ask her. She used to occasionally sign her Emails with "Love, T" and once in a great while she'd even say she loved me. She stopped that. I've also noticed her Emails are much shorter, IF she even responds. She used to always respond. Now, maybe half the time, and very short. Yet if I don't Email her, she questions me as to why. She encourages them. I've even told her that I don't want to set myself up for disappointment by Emailing her and not getting a reply. She acted like, wow, she'd not thought of that. Like it made sense. She used to give me longer, healing hugs. Now they're typically short and almost feel forced to me. So much has changed. But aside from deciding it's ok to change boundaries without talking to me about it or at least just informing me, she is a very good T. She shows compassion in her words, in her voice....but I'm just so hurt over these changes, I feel rejected...abandoned...even though she'll be right there in front of me. And in the past couple of months, I have revealed to her some HUGE things. I've put myself through a great deal of pain, horrible pain, in that room. Trying to prove I can continue, I guess, I don't know. But I hate feeling so darn pathetic for being an adult, and feeling this way. I hate the thought of leaving her....I AM attached to her. Everything's just so scary...however I look at it. She was SO perfect....why did she have to change things? And why can't I let it go?

I appreciate those who said I have to continue to talk about it, but really, there is NOTHING left unsaid. Everything I've ever said here on PC about this, she knows, I've told her. I wish I knew what could make it better...so I can suggest it and move on. An apology for how she handled it? I don't know, maybe. A promise that she won't change things without talking to me about it or at least informing me? Sure...but I've kinda mentioned that, and things still changed. But the biggest thing for me is that RIGHT before she refused to leave her chair "from now on," I disclosed something to her reluctantly. Not anything huge or anything, but she was trying to nudge me to talk about it, and I told her I was afraid something would change if I talked about it. She assured me "nothing will change HERE." Then, one thing after another, things DID change. I have these three books on touch in therapy. I'd like to get them read....to help me perhaps understand, or at least not feel so pathetic for feeling the way I do. Maybe they'll help me feel more validated. More kind to myself. Because when T did this, I became even more depressed, and even self destructive. It was not a manipulation tactic, because I didn't tell her. A couple months later she flat out, specifically asked me, and I answered truthfully. Ugh. Thanks for letting me vent. I want to get started on those books..... I want to understand.

[Leah123]

You seem to be selling yourself down the river for her.

She is acting inconsistently and unprofessionally. If it was going to get fixed, it would have I think- 5 months is a LONG time to have a rift remain open.

[Daystrom]

Originally Posted by musinglizzy

I sure wish I could come up with words to describe how it feels having my T take touch away. I have just not been in a good place lately and I have so much going on in my life, and she's the only real person, face-to-face person that I feel like I can get support from. I'm working on that but right now it is what it is. She offered me comforting touch for like five months and then just took it away just like that. I can't seem to come up with an explanation as to why this was so damaging. Except that any little bit of well-being I had, self-worth, is gone because of that. I know it's pathetic, but it is what it is again. She is a great therapist, and we worked so well together up until she took it away, and now I just sometimes feel like I can't trust her. I feel like I'm dirty, untouchable, not worthy of it. If anyone else has been in the same boat and has a way to articulate their feelings behind it I would love to hear. Because I just can't come up with a reason that this was so damaging to the point of being dramatic for me. I'm afraid I will never be able to let it go, I've been trying for five months. But I just can't seem to tell her what it meant to me and what it feels to me having it taken away abruptly without any discussion. I know I did nothing wrong, but I can't help but think that I did. And I just feel unworthy. It just hurts immensely, every single day. And my relationship with her seems to affect my relationships in my real life, which isn't right. It just hurts so much. And every session with her, I think about that every time. And I see her twice a week. I have talk to her about it until I'm blue in the face, but I don't think she understands. And I'm afraid you all here are tired of hearing about it. But I don't really have anyone else to talk to about it, when I know there are some people here who understand. I know there are people here who don't understand, and I really don't think it would be helpful to me to hear why it's not OK or why you think it's not beneficial. I'd really like to hear from people who feel the same way I do.

I know exactly how you feel. It's the feeling that you have somehow been judged and found wanting, without ever knowing what you said or did to spur the judgment or the verdict. It's the feeling that somehow you were bad, that you did something wrong, that there IS something wrong with you but you can't know what. It's the feeling that you are fundamentally deficient in ways that aren't fixable.

Once, someone I had known for years and who was close to me cut me out of her life without any explanation or warning. I knew that I had done nothing wrong, but for years I have struggled with WHY. Since there was never again any contact between us, I was left to ponder just what in the hell could possibly have happened, and I still think about it every day. Though I know that what she did was a result of her own personal issues and actually a pattern of her past relationships, it didn't stop my mind from shooting off into all kinds of notions about what was wrong with ME. I felt pathetic, dirty, unworthy -- just as you do with this.

Your T took away something intimate and comforting, and now won't give you a straight answer as to why. That would drive me nuts and send me into all kinds of terrible places too. My guess would be that she must have decided for some reason that touch had ceased to be an effective tool and may have been becoming counterproductive. I would still be bothered, though, because for me it would confirm my fears about inauthenticity and distance in the client/therapist relationship. We want something as intimate as touch to be real, not just another practiced technique.

I will say to you what I have to remind myself of during my own struggles with abandonment: For whatever reason it happened, and for whatever reason you can't be told why, the answer is not that you are bad or unworthy. I don't believe that can be.