A ? for the ladies...

We're not all depressed and anxious. But a lot of people observe mood changes during the latter phase of their cycle, and given that there are significant hormone changes during that time, and given that hormones are pretty powerful (they can cause us to grow breasts, to create uterine lining, etc etc etc,) to discount them as a potential cause of mood changes is frankly, ridiculous. I don't care how many articles TIME runs on it.

Hormones are mood changers. Period. Increased testosterone is linked to heightened aggression, you probably don't disagree with that, but for some reason you think that progesterone and estrogen changes have 0 effect. That doesn't make any kind of sense to me.

Not every woman is significantly affected by her period, I believe that you aren't. However, I also know for a fact that I am. I'm also sensitive to the BC you throw out there as some miracle cure. It's not an option for me.

Also, it's not a guessing game. If your mom beat you every night of your life, you don't have to guess that has some impact on your life. If every month you find yourself in a similar mental space, it's safe to say it's your period. Let's not pretend that there's no such thing as a cause.

Everyone's experiences are different. Everyone's causes for their troubles are different, but that doesn't mean they're completely unknown or completely unknowable. Some of us aren't 'blaming' anything. Some of us are aware of the causes of our various issues and working to deal with them, and having someone come along and say that we can't possibly know our own bodies because some study in TIME magazine says so is more silly than offensive.

It's offensive only because you describe it as an opinion rather than an actual experience. The article is just a sexist story citing a random study that doesn't really say much of anything (and it Actually acknowledges the existence of PMDD, if you read closely). Hormonal changes effect women (and men) - that is a fact, not an opinion. And differen women have different symptoms - I never had cramps until recently, but I didn't dismiss claims that other women did as BS.

Plus I think you're missing the general point that I got from the OP. No one has claimed that has written that hormones/menstrual cycle is the root cause of their depression. What I've read here is that some people's depression worsens during PMS- much like it can with other physical conditions like hypothyroidism and pregnancy. Depression is caused by something - it doesn't just appear for no reason. What causes it can be one or a number of different things, often experiental but also sometimes physical. To state that this isn't true is dismissive and doesn't make much sense.

It's easy to argue against a made up opponent. The fact is I never said hormones had "0" effect on anyone. Nor did I say I only had one link. If you want I can post better links of an actual study which just collected data showing only a small fraction of women truly experienced PMS in their group, the same fraction were more moody during or after their period than before, hence they concluded it can't be that JUST pre-menstrual hormone changes that cause mood swings. People are moody, it's the human condition, but when is it elevated to disorder? Also, on the one hand you agree depression is caused by "something" and on the other you say then you say "let's not pretend it's not caused by something" as if that was my argument and then "some of us aren't blaming anything." I just didn't follow where you are going there...

Anyways Lauliza, you win. I agree your period may exacerbate your depression and anxiety (which I broadly said we all had mainly because it's a chat room full of such people in therapy, mainly to make my point that there are many causes none of which are thought by anyone to be primarily related to having a period) When I originally read the question I read is PMS causing my depression anxiety, can I discuss this with a male T, and it touched a personal hot button for me of being dismissed all my life for the real cause of depression which has nothing to do with my gender or being hormonally moody. Clearly I misread the question which was I am more moody during the time leading up to my period and can I discuss it with a male therapist. My bad!

The first sentence of my first post said: For those of you who suffer with depression and anxiety, do you feel that your symptoms get worse around that time of the month?

I never once said that PMS was the cause of my depression and anxiety. I'm sorry you misread and took offense, but you have been way off base from the very start of the thread.

I'm sorry that happened to you. But you should have put aside your own biases and realized she was looking for help and support. She WASN'T looking for someone to discount her. Fair enough if we are discussing a scientific data or an article but she was not looking for someone who was bent on trying to prove her experiences wrong. You sounded very condescending from your second post on whether or not you realize it. and that's why people were upset. But hey it happens and hopefully we can all move forward.

I've noticed I can track when my period is going to start sometimes by a severely decreased mood that comes on suddenly, even while I'm diligently taking my medications and are having no significant stressors in my daily life. I have the blessing of a female T, and we discussed it just this week. She suggested PMDD, which is a disorder that elevates irritability and depression just before your period.

I asked her if I could have "just" had PMDD instead of severe depression my whole life, but she said that the disorder is usually manifested by a case of depression, not the other way around.

I wasn't looking to discount her, nor bent on trying to prove her experiences "wrong." I don't know why it has to be so dramatized, or why my opinion on a thing has to be misconstrued as a personal attack. It seems like you are just missing my point entirely, but don't worry, I will stop making it. I hope everyone can move forward. It can be really difficult when people believe differently than you.

Anyways, I'm entitled to my opinion and you to yours. Sorry if you don't like it, but I don't like being bullied out of expressing MY truth either.

Is PMS a culture-bound syndrome: The evidence that your bad mood has nothing to do with hormones.
The myth of premenstrual moodiness
5 Gender Stereotypes That Used To Be the Exact Opposite | Cracked.com

I think this is the post everyone responded negatively to. Hormones affect mood, even the articles you post, though they have click bait headlines, support the link. So PMS is not BS created by the man, it's a real experience people have. Of course you are entitled to believe they don't have moodiness and it's just what they've been told but that would beg the q of why you would be trying to convince us our opinion is wrong?

This is what an invalidating personal attack looks like, smh

Jane - I like to question, that's who I am. I don't believe things just because I've always been told they are true. Not sure if you've noticed but medicine has been wrong, a lot. People are wrong frequently. Every girl and woman has heard of PMS and expects to be irrational and moody because of her gender. No wonder so many women blame their period.I'm saying I don't buy it, the part where female biology is the root cause of mental disorder. It's not anything against you personally!! All the links cite the same study which was a meta analysis of all PMS studies showing they could find no common link between pre menstrual hormone changes and moodiness. We are made to believe that almost all women have PMS and fact is science does not support that. People have mood fluctuations at all points of their menstrual cycle. Even men have mood fluctuations and hormones. Don't you think it's curious no one has lumped normal male hormones into a disorder of some kind?

What I find sexist and dismissive is the use of the word moodiness in reference to a worsening of depression that's related to changes in hormones. I think that's the very thing the OP was concerned would happen if she brought this up to a male therapist, except that it happened here in her own thread. I think the way to view this without perpetuating sexism is to recognize that depression is real and has many causes and things that aggravate it, which is what most of the posters here are recognizing. It's not moodiness. That's what I would consider a very old, stigmatizing view. To the OP: I think it's worth telling your therapist your main concern about being dismissed by having your depression considered moodiness.

Except your truth is that no, you don't get changes in your depression symptoms with your cycle fluctuations. That is your truth. Nobody is upset about that particular truth. Perhaps another truth is that you experienced minimization of your symptoms of depression because you're a women. So maybe you'd advise her that a male therapist might not be a person to talk to about it. I think that would have been a potentially helpful post which still would have encompassed your truth.

http://www.uptodate.com/contents/pre...ond-the-basics

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3462360/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9100599

I think its called war.

How can I get this thread closed?

By reporting it (the warning triangle beneath the 'x hugs given' badge). I've already clicked it for you.

Thank you! This post is obviously no longer productive.

Unfortunately, even after my post asking to stay on topic, there still seems to be antagonistic posts and replies to one another. This is what happens to make a thread become unsupportive, off topic and closed.

How is this supportive to the OP and others who found this thread interesting and keeping on topic?

The OP and the Support Team have deemed this thread unsupportive and will now be closed.