Verbally attacked in group

I agree that healthy confrontation is good to practice, but this situation is like throwing a tennis player in with a gladiator. It would only be fair to pit tennis player vs tennis player for healthy practicing.

Ultimately, half of being a good group therapist is simply about knowing how to successfully moderate the session, and in my opinion your group T has got a lot of room to improve in this regard. This is important to note since your being ejected from the group that he was incapable of successfully moderating in that session seems to suggest that fault lies with you when it clearly should not! He could very easily, I believe, have guided the session in such a way that would allow the feelings you expressed to have been productive for everyone, meaningful for everyone since being heard and feeling talked over are feelings everyone has in group at one point or another.

I think it's disgraceful you got kicked out, but also not unsurprising as it takes a certain skill set to know how to manage a group, and an actively utilized skill set.

And if the group T "didn't want it to become the focus of the group" in the next session then he should have been willing to address it himself, in which case he could have planned to do so at the outset of the next session in whatever manner he found to be most concise and effective. Give a little 5 minute pep talk and move forward. To me that's standard issue meeting moderation: take care of old business, move on to new business.

I hope you find a better group.... I think it's shameful they would stonewall you like this, but I wouldn't be very confident in what could be gotten out of the experience with them going forward, based on their handling so far.

See, I don't see it as an "attack". I see it as another person, with her own issues and problems, lashing out at anyone or anything.

It's an opportunity for conflict resolution. Successful conflict resolution is a skill that requires lots of time and practice. Over and over and over again. A lot of times with no support at all.

Keep going, talk it out with your therapist and figure our new and successful ways to deal with people like this. Cause they aren't going away.

If I were paying any amount of money to be in such a group situation, it would pisss me off no end that one pouting narcissist would be allowed to hoard the majority of the session. I can see how a T might want one to take a stab at confronting the behavior. But it sounds like this lady in the sunglasses was allowed to go on and freakin on. Sorry, but that is just not good group therapy. It is highly passive lazy or cowardly on the T leader's part not to step in even a little.

I'm so very sorry you were treated that way, Scarlet.

Not every T is a good T or a good group therapy moderator. I would actually look at this as a plus for you. It was done the hard way, but you did learn that this T did not have your best interests in mind. It is very, very important to be able to trust the person and people you are revealing yourself to. (Maybe that was why you were quiet in group?) Now you have a new opportunity to find the right one. And group isn't for everybody. I never got anything out of it myself.

Put it behind you as a learning experience, and try not to be traumatized by it. You will find the right group and they will welcome you with open arms.

Sorry to hear this has happened to you Scarlet. To be blunt, I think group therapy for people with borderline traits sounds more like a dog fighting pit than anything remotely useful. I cannot fathom how putting highly sensitive, conflict prone people in an emotional pressure cooker is helpful.

What I'm about to say, I say as someone with borderline traits, and someone who also regularly gets kicked out of things:

This isn't (solely) everyone else's fault.

When I read your first posting I thought it actually sounded more like a mutual conflict than an attack. See, she talked a lot, you adressed it in what sounds to me like a passive way which nevertheless left her in no doubt that you were talking about her, and then when she was upset she at first withdrew, then gave you her take on your behavior, which you felt attacked over. It sounds like you both felt attacked by the other.

If it had ended there, you probably would have been able to resolve it in the next session. But where the other lady probably said her piece and was done, you escalated things. She kept her beef with you, more than likely. You went to the group T, then to the group T's supervisor. And then, when you didn't get what you wanted from her... you hung up on her!

I mean, come on, let's get some perspective on this, if it's at all possible. You weren't 'attacked' (god that's a charged word). You had a disagreement which escalated into a whirlpool of conflict which ended up with you picking a fight with someone who had the authority to remove you from the play pen. That's never a good idea.

People on this board tend to be very validating, and very agreeable, and to take everything one says at face value, which is nice. But it's not the way the real world works. And it's not how real conflict works. You said the sunglasses lady monopolized the session, but I am betting that the conflict between the two of you really derailed the whole thing. And wanting to address it again (having gone over your group T's head) probably had the capacity to create a complete meltdown. Between the two of you having your feelings at one another, god knows if anyone else in the group got to do anything other than maybe make some popcorn.

I do think that spineless leadership has a lot to answer for here, and I think you both should have been pulled up short a lot earlier. Unfortunately, you were both allowed to do the ol' borderline emotional escalation, and it's resulted in the louder one of the two getting kicked out. That's usually how it works.

For me, what helps is owning the fact that my feelings aren't actually the be all and end all. I think this emphasis on validating every feeling creates a sense of entitlement which results in what happened above, two strong personalities both having their feelings all over one another with little in the way of self control.

This sucks. I hope you can find a group with a therapist who can actually manage borderline people. I know what I've written here isn't 100% validating, and maybe you'll think it is off-base or even wrong, but its my experience with myself and people like myself, so I'm sharing it in the hope it maybe provides a perspective which might help.

Yes, I agree that the impulse to stay silent in group may be a good indication that conditions are not safe to talk. Something is off and you are rightfully picking up on it.

You seem to know the situation very well even though you weren't there...

My individual T wanted me to address it again. You missed that part. I didn't want to.

Btw, I am going to go to group this week... I don't want people to think I quit. The other members who helped me last week told me to come back and not quit. Plus, I want to say goodbye to them.

Hi Scarlet,
You've mentioned this in several of your posts. Do you think you might have had a PTSD reaction?

Scarlet , can you take a break from the group while working on this with your individual T? And the feelings of safety as ex vivo mentioned? We will always encounter these sort of situations in all areas of our lives.

Maybe don't give up on the idea of group, just perhaps this one?

Maybe the weak kneed T is the one that needs confronting even more than sunglasses brat. You can do it Scarlet! T messed up and needs to own it.

Gee. Kicked out for wanting to address the issue? Sorry, it doesn't sound fair. How unfair. I hope you find better group, this one seems to be poorly run

Saying all that I am a bit concerned that you did something even though you didn't want to just because your individual t told you to do so. I worry that this t creates dependence and inability to make your own decisions, it seems that you have to consult her on everything and feel like you need to do what she wants. That bothers me. What if she isn't around at some point?

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Yeah. I'll see if I can find another group...probably. Of course, I'll talk to my individual T first about everything. I might take a break from group though.

The problem with finding another group is that I'm supposed to be in DBT group. There are almost no DBT groups here. The ones that are "real" are too expensive for me. Plus, I'd have to give up my individual T. So I might have to find a different group. There's DBSA, but the woman from group I had the conflict with goes both days and evem sometimes runs the group... I don't know what I'm going to do.

So you are going to defy both the group T and the supervisor and go to group? Sounds like 1. You've already talked to the other group members and had a chance to explain and say goodby. 2 you want to cause more drama.

It is an issue of mine. I like pleasing people, so I do what they suggest. I don't think it's a problem with my T though. Probably most Ts would have suggested confronting the woman once more. And yes, I didn't want to confront the woman because she scares me when she opens her mouth. But I agreed with my T that if I didn't confront her, there would be an awkwardness btwn us because I wouldn't feel like things were resolved. That's why I pushed my group T. I went over his head to his boss because I was tired of his bs.

Funny how this all started because I didn't speak up, and now that I have several times, I'm punished. Even a few here have deemed what I did to be "bad". And to be judged as "loud" is hilarious again because I'm one of the quietest people you'll find.

???

Think what you want. I'm not going in the actual building. I'm just saying goodbye. And I have no outside contact with these women. So assume all you want.

I honestly think that is a bad idea. You have been asked not to attend the group. Going to see the members outside the building could continue to be disruptive to the remaining members of the group. Better to just not return.

I have been in several different types of group therapy over the years. Usually they have had ground rules. which everyone is made aware of at the first group. No interrupting being the first one. only one person talking at a time. I am currently in a DBT group, than since we are working on Mindfullness skills, During Checkin, The only people allowed to talk are the Therapist and the person checking in. Once they have finished, if someone wants to offer something related, or ask a question they can. But never are two people talking at the same time.. I would suggest that you talk with your therapist, and if something can not be worked out. maybe look for a different group.. Good luck to you..

Honestly, I think this is a good thing.

I applaud you for giving it your best effort, but these recent events only seem to prove that you and the treatment team just don’t communicate very effectively. The fact that you felt the need to go over the group T’s head says a lot about the (lack of) therapeutic alliance there, and that you needed to hang up on his supervisor would seem to indicate a similar lack of mutual respect.

I’m sorry this had such an ugly ending, but—like all less-than-stellar outcomes—hopefully it will prove educational at least. Take care.

ScarletPimpernel Quote: "Probably most Ts would have suggested confronting the woman once more."

I don't think my therapist would have made such a suggestion, even with my fear of confrontation. She most likely would have helped me look at various options suggested by me, and maybe add one or two if I was scarce in thought. And once I made my decision she would have supported it. I would always have had the option to ask what she would have done, and she would not hold back in telling me. Most likely, I would have asked to converse with her outside of group, either by myself or with a staff member. I personally would not feel my continuing the discussion in group would be fair to the other members. That's just me.

The way they terminated you stinks, was very unprofessional, and I'm very sorry this happened to you. I know thinking about another group atm is not what you want to hear. But I hope that with the support of your therapist that you can find a group therapy that fits your needs, and that has a more than capable leader(s).

Good luck.

Good for you!

The bolded part: I could have agreed to this. It didn't have to be in group. I wouldn't think talking to her alone would be wise. Think we need a middleman just in case because of what happened last time. But if we showed up to group earlier or later and the group T helped us... I would have been okay with that option.

I'm sorry the group T was not more helpful. I think you and the group member in sunglasses both made mistakes, but that's what therapy is for- to learn how to handle things like this. The group T dropped the ball. You would not have thought to go over his head if he had handled the situation better.

My first reaction remains the same: I'm glad you don't have to pay more money for this. I wouldn't pay to be treated this way.

I don't know if going back to the group is going to be helpful...whether you say good bye in the parking lot or wherever. This is just me- I would not want to invite more hurt.
Maybe your experience will be different, idk.

Wishing you the best, though!

Scarlett, I personally don't think that this treatment team handled things very well. When you hung up on the supervisor, she should have calmly called back and said, "I think we got disconnected. What you're saying is important and we ALL need to figure this out." Then she should have worked with you to set up a time that you and the group therapist could meet and come to some way of handling the ramifications of what happened. This kind of stuff happens all the time in real life and their job is to help all of us lear to deal with real life situations through therapeutic situations. They had a perfect learning situation to demonstrate their knowledge of DBT by using the skills themselves! That's what certified DBT trained therapists do--they use the DBT skills themselves.

I also agree with someone else that going over the therapist's head probably wasn't your best move. Guess what mental health workers call that when we do that? Splitting. They love to use that word and as soon as they use it, it puts all the blame for everything that has happened squarely on your shoulders. If you show up outside the building to talk to the other group members, that is also going to be "labeled" splitting. I get why you want to do that--you don't want the other members, who you like and feel you've built a solid rapport with, to think that you quit. You know that the therapist can't explain to anyone else what happened outside the group and why you're no longer in group. In other words, you want your say. I get that. But it isn't a good solution in this situation. I really think you should consider just walking away and chalking up what happened to the poorly trained DBT therapists. As you said, they aren't "certified" DBT therapist and that makes a big difference. In actuality, the therapist are "splitting" and not understanding how to maintain the balance in a DBT group. Very sad. You're better off finding a better trained group.