Is there a difference?

So, my T and I got into quite an argument. As I stated in a previous post, I don't plan on going back to see him anymore. I said some nasty things to him and even though I feel like he is just as much at fault for what happened, I sent an email and apologized. He emailed back and said he accepted my apology and that was it. Of course I started overanalyzing and here's my question...

Do you think "apology accepted" and "I forgive you" are the same? Do you think when someone says "apology accepted" they automatically mean they forgive you, too?

I believe they are the same thing.

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They are the same to me. I don't think it has to be about forgiveness, and my guess is that your T probably would respond that there is nothing to forgive. I think you may feel a need to be forgiven, but often times things weigh heavier on our own minds than they do on other people's minds. I'd say accept that your therapist is probably just accepting your apology and moving on.

I think accepting an apology is a pro-reconciliation move - I think it's roughly the same as forgiveness in a general context, but I agree with Lola that the term forgiveness implies there is something to forgive. I think the concept of forgiveness puts the power in the hands of the forgiver, which in a therapy context may not be quite the right emphasis.

If I said things I meant, I would neither apologize nor would I seek forgiveness.
I don't think I have ever pondered if someone accepting an apology meant they forgave me. Upon reflection, I would not equate the two.

I want to be like you when I grow up!

I have a really bad habit of apologizing when there's no need to. I worry that people won't like me, will abandon me, etc. if I don't say I'm sorry when there's a problem. I've definitely been a people pleaser my whole life. I wish I could be ok with speaking my mind and not feeling bad about it if it upsets someone. Obviously my T didn't feel bad for being an *** to me. He's the professional - shouldn't he be the one to make things right?

I don't know exactly what happened during your argument with your therapist, but I do think that simply stating "apology accepted" isn't quite what I'd expect from my therapist following an argument. It's fine for an argument or disagreement between myself and a friend, but when a client apologizes to a therapist, I expect more. As the person in the "power position", I expect a therapist to be the one to not only accept an apology but to begin his/her part in repairing the rupture. I'm not saying that I'd expect a dissertation or a "fall on his/her knees" begging me to return to session, but I would expect a sentence or two about: "Apology accepted, Twistedangel. I know I owe you one too. Things really got off track yesterday, didn't they? If you're open to it, let's sit down and talk about it, okay?. I'm betting that if the two of us put our heads together we could figure out what happened."

When people have an argument, ONE person isn't at total fault when things go south (even if one party ends up throwing a few F bombs or things deteriorate into name calling) It is usually a situation where both parties go off the rails, especially in a therapeutic situation and the reality is, we're the client and the therapist is the one who "supposedly" has the skill and expertise to stay calm, even if he/she triggers the client into an enactment that results in name calling and rage. Ruptures can be a healing experience if a therapist handles it with clinical skill and empathy--simply saying "apology accepted" and leaving it at that just doesn't cut it in the clinical skill/empathy department, for me anyway!

Thank you so much for this!!! Sometimes I feel like I'm just being overly sensitive. I definitely feel like T should also apologize, but I'm sure it will be a cold day in hell before that happens. He's always been so consistent and professional. Guess I hit a sore spot??

I don't think you're being overly sensitive. I guess what I'm saying is that Iconsider his response to be "unprofessional" and insensitive. I consider it cold and unrelentingly boundaried<--and NOT in a good way. In my book, a well-trained and empathetic professional therapist doesn't respond to an argument/rupture in this way.

Example: Say I went to my session and misinterpreted something my therapist said and called him/her a "f'ing" something or other. He/she is shocked and doesn't react before I get up and leave in anger. I go home, post here about what happened and several of the wonderful other posters suggests that what he said might not have been what I thought. They suggest that I might have misinterpreted his intent. I think about it and start to feel bad. So, I shoot off an email and apologize for being rude. Even though I was the one who engaged in the rage and name calling, I'd still expect my therapist to say: "Apology accepted, Jay. Let's talk about this at our next session because I'm sure that we can figure out what got triggered. And just so you know, I apologize for not realizing soon enough how hurt you felt by what I said. See you next week!" See how he/she could accept my apology but still demonstrate how willing he/she is about repairing this rupture? It isn't a one way street in this rupture/repair thing that happens in therapy and any therapist who sees it that way is missing a MAJOR opportunity to help his/her client heal and move on.

I don't know if you "hit a sore spot". I'm guessing you're referring to your therapist having a "sore spot" in this situation. Does he struggle accepting his part in disagreements/arguments/ruptures? I think this is one of the most CRITICAL areas of clinical work. One can have all the knowledge of psychology in the world, but if he/she is unable to be "in service" of their client's needs, then he/she is useless in my book. A well-skilled therapist MUST be able to be the bigger one in helping to heal ruptures. If he is always focused on placing blame, then his ego is getting in the way and he is going to be of little help to his trauma clients. Just my own take on things.

To me, there's a difference, yes. Apology accepted I would take as, we are okay, but not necessarily forgiven.
I think it's so hard when a T gets defensive. Mine can sometimes, and I think 'you can't always be right, dumbass'

This is the first time we have had a disagreement, so I'm not sure if it's typical of him to behave in the manner he did. I'm really sad that he thinks he's not at all at fault. It just scares me that if I tried to fix things it would just eventually happen again, and I don't want to get into a cycle like that. I spent too much time in an abusive relationship to let a T bully me the way he did.

I think it's dangerous for anyone to think they are always right - especially a T!!!

You had an argument, you have apologised, it has been accepted, you move on. Why would want forgiveness? Do you need to be forgiven? Have you done something that needs to be forgiven. I think not.

I wonder if this tiff is not therapeutic in its way and perhaps something to build on?

I think there's a difference between the two, but I do not see a need for forgiveness unless you caused harm to his office or person. It's too bad that apology accepted was his only reply. From what little you've shared, it's hard to know his end of things, but even when my therapist has nothing to apologize for, she expresses regret if I've struggled over an interaction, being sorry that her action or words didn't have the result she intended. It's not something I looked for, but it sure has helped. She is the least egotistical therapist I have ever had. It makes a big difference when the therapist's goal is rebuilding and repairing, rather than guilting.

Does your therapist know you're not planning on seeing him again? I wonder whether he thinks that you can have a fuller discussion of this next time you meet. Do you think he understood that this email could be one of the final opportunities he would have to communicate with you?

I could accept an apology but not forgive the person, so for me, they are not necessarily the same.

I don't really need forgiveness. I just want to know if he harbors ill feelings towards me because of what happened. If he does, I need to find a new T.

I would totally feel different about the situation if he expressed regret about what happened. He made it pretty clear that he felt he was right, end of story. No trying to understand my side of things. I can't do therapy like that.

I didn't come straight out and say I don't plan on coming back. I'm not sure he would even try to make things right if I did tell him that. I'm not asking for him to beg me to stay. I just want to clear the air.

From your posts, I'd venture a guess that you are still questioning and wondering about how he feels about what happened. It might really be helpful to go back and ask him how he "feels about the situation" that happened between you. Did he really feel that he was "right" and that was the end of the story or was he totally clueless as to how difficult things were for you in the session? Believe me, our therapists can be clueless at times and totally out of the loop as to how much they have ticked us off. Is he willing to "understand"/explore your side of things or does he truly believe that nothing happened or he was right to say what he did and you are blowing things out of proportion? Those would be pretty powerful things to know about your relationship with your therapist.

Yes, it would have been nice if he had recognized how you felt and that he'd put on his big boy therapist pants and made the first move to indicate that he is willing to explore those issues with you, but perhaps he was having an off day. You mention that this is the first rupture that the two of you have had. I'd really suggest giving him the benefit of the doubt and go in and talk about how the whole incident, including his abrupt email, felt to you. It could be a pretty powerful conversation, especially if he's a good therapist and checks his ego at the door and really engages in a deep and healing conversation with you about what happened between the two of you. You'd probably come away from that conversation with a better understanding of where you stand in your relationship with him--is he open to criticism or is he so entrenched in being right that he can't step outside of his own feelings and see how you might have felt? All important things.

Only you know if this is what you want to do or if it will be helpful to you. You have to ask yourself, do I want to give him a chance to repair this rupture with me or am I done. You're right, he isn't going to "beg you to stay" and believe me that wouldn't be helpful. But going in and having one more session to see how the repair process could happen could be really helpful. If he isn't willing to meet you half-way, then you can decide that he isn't the right therapist for you, you can tell him exactly that and then leave knowing that you were the brave one and attempted to deal with things in a healing way for you. Or if the thought of having that conversation is too upsetting, you could decide to simply move on, but I'd say that since you're trying to figure out what he meant with his words and email (mind reading never works ), that having the conversation with him in person would bring some closure for you. Good luck with whatever you decide!

Very good point. I feel however that you are possibly over-reacting.

I feel that Ts necessarily have disagreements, possibly full blown rows with their clients. They are trying to talk about the most personal and perhaps painful parts of your life.

Sometimes they will get it wrong and sometimes the client may be hurt beyond endurance. Harsh words may well get said, but then again a difficult barrier to healthy thoughts may have been breached.

If I understand you correctly you are not so angry you want to drop your T, but you are worried he will harbour ill will. I feel that it is unlikely that your T will nurse a grievance - he has accepted your apology and he is paid to get the rough of distressed people's tongue from time to time.

Accepting an apology is a way of moving on in a grown up way. There is by convention no need to mention the matter again.

However if you are anxious you may wish to tell your T that and perhaps further draw a line under the matter by shaking hands on it. Again by convention as I understand it a disagreement once shaken upon is forgotten.

Ah, I wasn't thinking you wanted him to beg you to stay - I was wondering more if he knew how badly you were feeling about this, and whether he knew you saw this email exchange as being so important. I worry that you are putting so much weight on these couple of words in his email reply and he may have no idea of the import of it - I would imagine if he's expecting to see you again that he's probably thinking you can have a fuller discussion of the issue then. If you've had a good working relationship up to this point, it's likely he has no idea how threatened it is by this situation, particularly since you've apologized and he's accepted your apology. It's possible that he's interpreting this as the situation has been at least mostly resolved, or at least resolved enough that it can wait until your next session.

I would definitely tell him explicitly how you are feeling, either by phone if that is an option, or at another session.

I think I'm just looking at things in light of my career. I work with clients on a daily basis. No, I'm not a therapist, but I do hear all of their problems and I do my best to offer helpful advice. I have some clients that I absolutely LOVE to work with. Others, not so much. I just don't want to continue to spill my guts to someone who doesn't exactly like me. Especially when I am paying that person to listen to me. He can pretend all he wants, but I'm pretty good at discerning when someone is simply acting like they like me and care about my well-being. I've questioned if he's being genuine with me for some time now. This was just the last straw. I hope that makes sense.

I agree that he has no idea how much the disagreement (and how he handled the aftermath) has affected me. I still haven't made up my mind on what I'm going to do. What's meant to be will be. Thanks for your input!