[Petra5ed]

I had been doing well, but lately I am feeling depressed over my therapy. I was feeling confident that my therapist loved me, I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about caring for me as a person. Anyways, this all came crashing down over weeks/months with various little things, being late, cutting my apt short, not knowing my name, then finally refusing to say how he felt, and now most recently suggesting I see someone else.

It got to the point where I had to know if he loved me, so in a round about way I asked him. I'm not sure I can adequately express how heartbreaking it has been for me that he will not say he loves me. And I'm sure some of you will respond in shock at this, but this is someone I've been seeing and pouring my heart out to for years. Maybe I am loose with the word love, but I felt that we had a connection, again this is me completely removing sex from the dialogue, as just two humans, I thought he cared enough about me to call it love.

I don't need to be the most special person ever, but I need to be special, to someone. But now I feel just lost. I must look so pathetic. I really feel like if he doesn't love me I don't want to keep doing this, I'm going to be too hurt by it, if I'm not already. And I feel like he doesn't. It's like the fantasy of it all came crumbling down all around me, and the person I thought I was close to all along hasn't really even been there, I don't know how else to describe the loneliness of feeling like you are not special after all.

It seems like people will say to me, well you need to love yourself first... but isn't it a human need to feel loved? Doesn't everyone need to feel like someone finds them special? I thought if he said he loved me, then that would be healing. I would have believed it 100%, and then I would have felt loveable and worth something. Why would that be such a bad thing? Why is that I always need to feel this horrible, and never be special to anyone?

[Argonautomobile]

Of course we need to feel loved! But feeling loved and being loved aren't necessarily the same thing; That is, the subjective experience of feeling loved isn't necessarily directly dependent on what the other person is doing.

Some people can be told over and over again "I love you" and they still won't feel loved because they don't believe they are lovable or something. I think that's why a lot of T's refrain, on principle, from telling clients they love them--the T might care about the client and want them to be well and have fond feelings for them, but the T also doesn't want to (re)create a dynamic where the client relies on external forces for validation/approval. The ultimate goal is to feel like a lovable person even if you run into an invalidating jackass, right?

Of course, it's all well and good to say all of this and even intellectually to know it, but it sucks beyond the furthest reaches of suckitude not to feel loved. So I'm sorry you feel that way

PS: forgetting your name is kind of a big one, in my book...Was it, like, T forgot your middle name? Or pronounced it a little wrong? Or lost it on the tip of the tongue for a moment? Or, like, had literally no idea who you were? Because that would test even the most self-assured person and is a big red flag for me.

[AllHeart]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

It seems like people will say to me, well you need to love yourself first... but isn't it a human need to feel loved? Doesn't everyone need to feel like someone finds them special? I thought if he said he loved me, then that would be healing. I would have believed it 100%, and then I would have felt loveable and worth something. Why would that be such a bad thing? Why is that I always need to feel this horrible, and never be special to anyone?

Yes, we humans have an inherent right to give and receive love. We need love from others whether we know how to love ourselves or not. Btw, I always call bulls**t on people when they try to tell me to love myself first. Worst line ever!

Anyway, I am sorry things aren't going well with your t anymore. I want to ask you if you felt loved by your t? Some t's refuse to ever say the words to clients. Some t's say it to clients with no meaning. So I think it is most important to recognize whether or not you felt the love because feeling is more telling than hearing words.

Know that you are loveable and special with or without this t. Never give up. You will find that love you so deserve.

[divine1966]

I agree it's a human need. To be loved. But does it have to be your therapist? I don't think he can replace love that you might not be getting from others. Is there anyone you can feel it like your kids or parent or sibling?

So what's the reason he suggested you see a different therapist?

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[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

Yes, we humans have an inherent right to give and receive love. We need love from others whether we know how to love ourselves or not. Btw, I always call bulls**t on people when they try to tell me to love myself first. Worst line ever!

Anyway, I am sorry things aren't going well with your t anymore. I want to ask you if you felt loved by your t? Some t's refuse to ever say the words to clients. Some t's say it to clients with no meaning. So I think it is most important to recognize whether or not you felt the love because feeling is more telling than hearing words.

Know that you are loveable and special with or without this t. Never give up. You will find that love you so deserve.

I did feel loved, but now I'm not sure if I was that he loved me or if it was just him acting as a therapist being nice. How can I know I wasn't actually seduced to feel loved because he thought that was being a good therapist?

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I agree it's a human need. To be loved. But does it have to be your therapist? I don't think he can replace love that you might not be getting from others. Is there anyone you can feel it like your kids or parent or sibling?

So what's the reason he suggested you see a different therapist?

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It doesn't have to be him, but I think it has to be someone I love. I don't have parents who are capable, and I have no siblings. I know my child loves me, but that is different somehow.

He suggested a new therapist because I was so upset, I was crying, I guess it was uncomfortable.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

PS: forgetting your name is kind of a big one, in my book...Was it, like, T forgot your middle name? Or pronounced it a little wrong? Or lost it on the tip of the tongue for a moment? Or, like, had literally no idea who you were? Because that would test even the most self-assured person and is a big red flag for me.

He didn't forget, he apparently never knew my last name, even though it is my email address and I've paid him out of pocket for 3 years.

[RedSun]

Petra, I'm sorry this has been so painful for you.

My personal view is, yes, it is an innate human need/drive to be loved.
I also personally feel that it is not a T's role to be that one who loves us, anymore than a close teacher, doctor etc. sadly, therapy can often open up the awareness of the need for love, and hopefully strengthen us into people capable of giving and receiving healthy love...but the love has to then be found outside the T relationship, and that can be the very hard part.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I did feel loved, but now I'm not sure if I was that he loved me or if it was just him acting as a therapist being nice. How can I know I wasn't actually seduced to feel loved because he thought that was being a good therapist?

This sounds like the adult you speaking. I think ts show love and acceptance to our inner childwho lacked it growing up, and who would get in the way of our forming healthy adult relationships with her unmet childhood needs and desires. Thats why i chose a child t this time. Now i may have a few desires left - it is leap year after all - but the needs are no longer open wounds. no - its not something we can create out of thin air by ourselves. A t can help. How would you define your process?

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I did feel loved, but now I'm not sure if I was that he loved me or if it was just him acting as a therapist being nice. How can I know I wasn't actually seduced to feel loved because he thought that was being a good therapist?

Why does it have to be one or the other (and I suspect it isn't)? Your therapist can do his job as a therapist and treat you will care and respect, showing his love for you all along. He has a boundary around actually using the words which I can understand. As another poster said, it is more about the actual actions than the actual words. Words can be empty; actions are the evidence.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by RedSun

Petra, I'm sorry this has been so painful for you.

My personal view is, yes, it is an innate human need/drive to be loved.
I also personally feel that it is not a T's role to be that one who loves us, anymore than a close teacher, doctor etc. sadly, therapy can often open up the awareness of the need for love, and hopefully strengthen us into people capable of giving and receiving healthy love...but the love has to then be found outside the T relationship, and that can be the very hard part.

Yes, maybe I see this.

I'm still angry. I feel duped, seduced, f'd with. I don't see how therapy is healthy. The fact that he doesn't love me makes him useless to me.

I was able to feel safe when I felt loved, even though I knew I wasn't any safer. How can I trust a person I don't know who doesn't love me. How do I continue to bear my soul to this removed individual?

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Why does it have to be one or the other (and I suspect it isn't)? Your therapist can do his job as a therapist and treat you will care and respect, showing his love for you all along. He has a boundary around actually using the words which I can understand. As another poster said, it is more about the actual actions than the actual words. Words can be empty; actions are the evidence.

So you think he loves me but won't say it? He said he didn't want to hurt me, so I assume he doesn't, because saying I love you never hurt anyone that I know.

Well it was actions that made me feel unloved. If he was late all the time that's one thing, if he cut apts short here and there, that's ok. If he's busy helping other people, I understand. the thing is he's always late. He frequently cuts things short. When I'm having a breakdown he's never spent more than 5 mins on the phone, but he will tell me about how much he helps other clients through theirs.

[divine1966]

Well if he was late and cut appointment short and doesn't know your name etc id start looking for s new t. If that's the case then lack of love isn't even an issue. He us unprofessional

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[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Well if he was late and cut appointment short and doesn't know your name etc id start looking for s new t. If that's the case then lack of love isn't even an issue. He us unprofessional

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I don't think I would bother with a new therapist at this point. I still don't understand what therapy even is and what the point of all this was.

[NowhereUSA]

For me, therapy is a form of self-care. I've learned a lot about myself in terms of patterns and what triggers those patterns of behavior. Therapy has helped me with coping skills and how to work towards improving my life while managing my mental illness.

Having those clearly define needs and goals has helped me see value in therapy. Not everyone does find it valuable.

It sounds like it's been a painful experience and I can see why you might just want to walk away. And maybe that's the best thing for a time? Maybe it'll give you time to figure out what you want to work on and if therapy is going to be helpful in that.

[Chummy]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

It seems like people will say to me, well you need to love yourself first... but isn't it a human need to feel loved? Doesn't everyone need to feel like someone finds them special? I thought if he said he loved me, then that would be healing. I would have believed it 100%, and then I would have felt loveable and worth something. Why would that be such a bad thing? Why is that I always need to feel this horrible, and never be special to anyone?

Almost everyone wants and need to be special to at least one person. I know my parents love me, but I want to be special to someone besides my parents. Someone who choose me and not because he/she is my parent.
I don't need and want to be loved by my T, but I want to be a little bit special/important to my T. Just a little bit more than her other clients. I've been with her the longest. I've been seeing her over over 3 years. But I'm not more than her other clients. As far as I can see, she treats all clients the same and has the same rules/boundaries with everyone. I'm not sure. But she has been the same in all those years. It does hurts that I don't mean a little bit more to her after all this time, after everything I trusted her with.

Your T isn't doing his best at the moment. He should be on time. My T was a little bit late for almost every session I had since she worked at her ner place. I finally said something about it to her. It was difficult. But now she's usually on time.

You should say something about it. And if he doesn't change those things, maybe it's better to look for another T. I totally get that maybe you don't want therapy at all anymore. I need a new T, but I really don't know if I want to go through all this again. I've had bad/incompetent T's, those were absolute not good for me. But this attachment to current T, it also causes a lot of worry and stress.

I'm so sorry that your T didn't know your name and couldn't say that he loved you. For me therapy is telling my T how I feel when things like this happen, so if my T didn't remember my name I would tell her how I felt about that (it's hard to do). If she was late or cut the session short I would tell her how it made me feel. I have said similar things in my therapy and it has been helpful, that was the best session when I did that. It was painful but she understood, and we got closer.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by Brown Owl

I'm so sorry that your T didn't know your name and couldn't say that he loved you. For me therapy is telling my T how I feel when things like this happen, so if my T didn't remember my name I would tell her how I felt about that (it's hard to do). If she was late or cut the session short I would tell her how it made me feel. I have said similar things in my therapy and it has been helpful, that was the best session when I did that. It was painful but she understood, and we got closer.

Thanks, I agree. I did try to explain what I was feeling, which is when he suggested a new therapist. At that point I was already not doing well, but his suggestion was more than I could handle at the moment, even though he said he's "not going anywhere." He wasn't firing me, just suggesting I stop coming. I'm sure he means well, but I still feel like, wow he doesn't want me around. How could I be so stupid? I thought he loved me, and here he's hoping I find a new therapist. I thought he loved me... It seems cruel to pretend something like that when you don't feel it.

therapy is a business transaction. therapist offers his services and you make payments in return.
you dont usually pay people to love you. you have put your therapist in a tricky position by asking him to express love for you. he could have pretended he cared for you but that would not have been helpful for you.
sounds like he did the right thing by distancing himself and suggesting a new therapist. maybe it would be helpful to start over with a new therapist and find ways to experience selflove.

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

So you think he loves me but won't say it? He said he didn't want to hurt me, so I assume he doesn't, because saying I love you never hurt anyone that I know.

Well it was actions that made me feel unloved. If he was late all the time that's one thing, if he cut apts short here and there, that's ok. If he's busy helping other people, I understand. the thing is he's always late. He frequently cuts things short. When I'm having a breakdown he's never spent more than 5 mins on the phone, but he will tell me about how much he helps other clients through theirs.

I don't know. That's what you have to decide. I don't think this is really about love though. From what you are saying, this is a therapist that you haven't felt has been consistent and attentive in the way you need him to be. If that's the case, then you might need to reconsider whether he's the therapist for you. Don't make it about "love" when the real issue is whether this therapist is simply a competent, attentive, supportive therapist for you. If he isn't, then you need to communicate to him what you need in terms of consistency and support (you really don't need the words; you need the behaviors). He will either be able to change his ways to help you feel the support or not. When you make it about "love," you make it about words rather than actions. Sounds like his actions aren't what you need. Even if he said the words, I suspect you wouldn't believe him because his actions don't reflect that level of relationship. Him saying the words isn't going to change his behaviors.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I think everyone has that need to feel loved by another person and many people want to feel special to someone. Its normal. We as humans need love and care. I am sorry you are struggling and your therapist is not really helping. There are many T's who can't or won't say "I love you". There are ways to express love without saying it though. That is something I had to learn in therapy. I always needed to hear the words from people. Now if I can see it in someones actions it can be just as good as hearing the words. I feel very loved by my T and I can see it in her actions. Just feeling it and seeing it is enough for me. We have both said that we loved each other but it doesn't happen often and my T taught me that its more important to feel loved than to just hear the words. Anyone can say they love you but to feel it and see it in ones actions is so much more powerful.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

the thing is he's always late. He frequently cuts things short. When I'm having a breakdown he's never spent more than 5 mins on the phone

Oh my God, do we have the same T?!

Haha, I'm kidding. I'm with Lola on this one. Leave love out of it. If it were me I'd try to re-frame and de-escalate. "OMG my T doesn't love me back" is a terribly upsetting thought. "Wow. My therapist kind of sucks" is still potentially upsetting, but at least it places the blame where it belongs (on the therapist) and puts things back in their proper context (therapy, not love).

I'm sorry you're hurting.

[Petra5ed]

Thanks all, I feel a bit better. This is all me, I know that. I shouldn't expect him to love me, and I shouldn't need that from a therapist. (Yet I do, but whatever.)

I think this is certainly more about me than him, although I do think he's made some mistakes that didn't help. I don't think my T sucks though.

This relationship is just hard for me, and I suppose it would/will be with any therapist that I become attached to. I wonder if it ever gets better for people like me with early difficult attachment wounds. My mother is severely crazy and my attachment to her was very confusing, I think it still is affecting me. The depths of my despair / panic / rage here are very reminiscent of states I experienced as a child.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

Thanks all, I feel a bit better. This is all me, I know that. I shouldn't expect him to love me, and I shouldn't need that from a therapist. (Yet I do, but whatever.)

I think this is certainly more about me than him, although I do think he's made some mistakes that didn't help. I don't think my T sucks though.

This relationship is just hard for me, and I suppose it would/will be with any therapist that I become attached to. I wonder if it ever gets better for people like me with early difficult attachment wounds. My mother is severely crazy and my attachment to her was very confusing, I think it still is affecting me. The depths of my despair / panic / rage here are very reminiscent of states I experienced as a child.

I think it does get better--your rational assessment of the situation and connection to formative experiences is evidence of that, don't you think? I hope you can talk this over with your T and come to a happy conclusion. Not thinking he sucks is a start, right?

I've been thinking about the name thing. You know, I know a ton of people who I like very much and have been acquainted with/colleagues with for a long time but would be hard pressed to tell you their last names. (And vice versa--my name is long and probably just remembered as ArgoBlahBlahBlah) When you deal with someone in mostly a first-name capacity that tends to happen. Since you pay out of pocket, your T isn't spending a whole lot of time looking at your last name on medical/insurance forms, right? And he probably doesn't write out your last name in email, either--it's probably just saved as a contact.

I mean, I get it--it's a pretty basic thing. I can totally understand feeling miffed. Just another perspective, if it makes you feel any better.

Sending lots of warmth and positivity your way!

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by mousebear

therapy is a business transaction. therapist offers his services and you make payments in return.
you dont usually pay people to love you. you have put your therapist in a tricky position by asking him to express love for you. he could have pretended he cared for you but that would not have been helpful for you.
sounds like he did the right thing by distancing himself and suggesting a new therapist. maybe it would be helpful to start over with a new therapist and find ways to experience selflove.

Hmmm… I would argue the opposite, that therapy has put Petra in a tricky position.

Therapy stirs up maternal/paternal longings, sexual longings, connection and attachment needs and all of this is closely associated with feelings of love. So the client naturally develops feelings that are much like love, but they don't know how or even if they should express them. And then if they do dare to express strong feelings, the T might decide that is inappropriate and pull back or even terminate, a response that might be experienced as punitive, shaming, and rejecting. And the client will be encouraged to take a bullet and accept this as normal.

I have been in this position. T said, in effect, tell me everything, you can trust me. I did, and then she said, oh now that you have done that it's a problem. Who's crazy now?

I know that feeling, and I empathize with you Petra. Sounds to me like your response is entirely natural.