[ScarletPimpernel]

I feel like dying. And yet even saying that is a problem.

I saw my Pdoc today. I pretty much bawled my eyes out the whole appt. She wants me to want to quit therapy (yes, I typed that out right). She thinks that when that day comes, I will be basically healed from my BPD. She thinks therapy is actually halting my progress.

Last time I saw my Pdoc, I was talking to her about how I had ran out of things to say in therapy. And we talked about the possibility of reducing or terminating therapy. But things changed since our last appt. My T and I have found things to talk about and have even set new goals. We have also added the DBT workbook as a filler in case we run out of things to talk about again.

So I went to my Pdoc appt today. I told her that I have been dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts lately. She thinks, "in her clinical opinion" that the depression is an emotional reaction to the possibility of reduction/termination of therapy and the fear of getting better... I heard instead "You are faking your depression because you don't want to get better and lose your T ". So now I feel like ****.

Possible trigger:

So now I'm just toying with the idea of off'ing myself to prove that I'm really depressed and am not faking it.

Oh, and conveniently, we talked about it again how if I cut or if my suicidal thoughts become active that she will have to transfer me to county again...for legal reasons. Because her clinic isn't equipped to deal with that level of care. But in reality, her clinic has more resources than the county...

So she wants me to want to quit therapy. I feel like I'll be a fish flailing in a puddle of water. No support. Oh, but yet it's okay if I wind seeing her (my Pdoc) for years so long as I don't depend on it.

I know some of you are going to agree with my Pdoc. That's fine. Please, please be gentle. I'm really hurting from this and am not in a good place. And if you're going to agree explain why...why is okay for everyone else to be in long-term therapeutic relationships, some with very questionable boundaries, and a few with unrealistic expectations, but my relationship with my T is unhealthy for me.

Otherwise, I really need some support right now.

What if you take a break from the therapy? You could agree to go say 3mos without. In that time frame you could continue with the DBT homework. You might also want to keep a journal of your moods. After the 3mos duration was completed you could report back to both the T and Pdoc for assessment. Does this seem reasonable?

Rather than deal with what your pdoc said in a rather reactive way, why not try a different approach, more of a proactive approach? How about talking to your therapist about exactly what your pdoc's concern is. Get your T's take on your pdoc's perspective. That would be the first thing to do I would think. Perhaps your T could consult with the pdoc, maybe on speakerphone while you are present, so you can all three be on the same page about your goals and treatment. I suspect once they talk it will put your pdoc's concerns more at ease.

[atisketatasket]

I don't see why your psychiatrist gets to make major life decisions for you. If you want to keep on seeing your therapist, keep on seeing your therapist. If you feel you are getting something out of it, keep going.

I would tell the psychiatrist her job is to worry about your medication, and you make the decisions about your therapy.

[Argonautomobile]

Does the Pdoc's opinion matter to you? Has she been right about this sort of thing before? Do you think she's right about it now? Because if the answer to all three of these things is 'No,' then I think you can safely throw this piece of information away and not worry about it anymore.

This sounds awful and I am sorry you are struggling SP!

You psychiatrist is obligated to tell you if she thinks therapy is harming you, so in a way what she recommended sounds responsible. I do think she should establish that you have other coping mechanisms in place in before suggesting you drop an important part of your life. I don't understand why you need to prove how sick you are?

I'm interested what your therapist's opinion is. I've read that almost all clients regress as termination looms, so the idea of 'keeping sick' doesn't sound outlandish. In my very unprofessional opinion though, it might be a good plan to keep seeing a therapist as maintenance, even if you are well. That would make being sick irrelevant to holding on to an important relationship. When you truly don't need therapy anymore, leaving will be easier. And how long you see a therapist is your decision alone!

[bounceback]

I was just wondering if you mentioned to your psychiatrist that you and your T decided that you had things to work on because if it has been awhile since you have seen your psychiatrist she might not know that you have decided to continue working with your T. I agree with Lolagrace. It might be best if you guys are all on the same page.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I agree with lolagrace, why not talk with t about what pdoc said etc. Seems like it would be helpful for all 3 of you to be on the same page as lolag said.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Rather than deal with what your pdoc said in a rather reactive way, why not try a different approach, more of a proactive approach? How about talking to your therapist about exactly what your pdoc's concern is. Get your T's take on your pdoc's perspective. That would be the first thing to do I would think. Perhaps your T could consult with the pdoc, maybe on speakerphone while you are present, so you can all three be on the same page about your goals and treatment. I suspect once they talk it will put your pdoc's concerns more at ease.

Yes. I have contacted my T via email. Thankfully, she got back to me via email (which I've been reading over and over to comfort me). She said she was going to contact my Pdoc today or Monday. I'm a little nervous about that, but it needs to happen.

I've been trying to stay calm. T told me to practice my thought stopping and to repeat to myself the list of positives I made with her. I have distracted myself by playing a computer game and sleeping so far.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I don't see why your psychiatrist gets to make major life decisions for you. If you want to keep on seeing your therapist, keep on seeing your therapist. If you feel you are getting something out of it, keep going.

I would tell the psychiatrist her job is to worry about your medication, and you make the decisions about your therapy.

It's complicated. Pdoc likes being an active part of my treatment which has its pros and cons. I have suggested to my Pdoc that I should just lie to her (not about this issue particularly). Her respinse is "Then what is the point of having me on your treatment team?" She's a good Pdoc. She researches a lot. But she plays therapist a lot. Sometimes I wish she would just stick to being a Pdoc. Maybe then I wouldn't be attached to her likes she doesn't like.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

Does the Pdoc's opinion matter to you? Has she been right about this sort of thing before? Do you think she's right about it now? Because if the answer to all three of these things is 'No,' then I think you can safely throw this piece of information away and not worry about it anymore.

1. Yes. She is knowledgeable and has helped me through a lot of things.
2. Idk. Ex-T abandoned me while Pdoc was on maternity leave. Pdoc didn't really agree with ex-T's therapy either. So there's no clear answer to this.
3. Yes and no. I think she's right about the end goal is me not needing therapy. Do I think I'm at my end goal? Not even close! I'm still struggling to get out of the house. Then I have to learn how to balance a relationship. And if I ever become a parent, I will want guidance/support. And I need to keep practicing DBT skills in order for them to come more naturally instead of depending on others to remind me.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by bounceback

I was just wondering if you mentioned to your psychiatrist that you and your T decided that you had things to work on because if it has been awhile since you have seen your psychiatrist she might not know that you have decided to continue working with your T. I agree with Lolagrace. It might be best if you guys are all on the same page.

I did mention it to Pdoc. She still thinks because I was contemplating that I would reduce or quit therapy that I'm ready and should do it now. Well, in the end she told me to just think on it.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Btw, I'm not being depressed on purpose. Pdoc said she doesn't think so either. She just doesn't think I'm in a depressive episode. She thinks my recent bout of depression is reactive due to my fears.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

1. Yes. She is knowledgeable and has helped me through a lot of things.
2. Idk. Ex-T abandoned me while Pdoc was on maternity leave. Pdoc didn't really agree with ex-T's therapy either. So there's no clear answer to this.
3. Yes and no. I think she's right about the end goal is me not needing therapy. Do I think I'm at my end goal? Not even close! I'm still struggling to get out of the house. Then I have to learn how to balance a relationship. And if I ever become a parent, I will want guidance/support. And I need to keep practicing DBT skills in order for them to come more naturally instead of depending on others to remind me.

Sorry you're facing this--it's really tough when someone who matters expresses an opinion that doesn't gel with your own views on the matter. Still, I think it's pretty revealing that #1 is the only unequivocal "yes," don't you? I think it sort of simplifies things a little bit--gives you the option to consider what she said, listen to other perspectives, think about it, come to your own conclusion. At least, that's what I do when my T (or anyone whose opinion I respect) gives me a challenging piece of information.

I'm glad your T responded and will talk with your Pdoc about this. It always helps me to have someone else help me think things through. Wishing you the best.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

It's complicated. Pdoc likes being an active part of my treatment which has its pros and cons. I have suggested to my Pdoc that I should just lie to her (not about this issue particularly). Her respinse is "Then what is the point of having me on your treatment team?" She's a good Pdoc. She researches a lot. But she plays therapist a lot. Sometimes I wish she would just stick to being a Pdoc. Maybe then I wouldn't be attached to her likes she doesn't like.

My psychiatrist also wants to do therapy. So she insists on hour sessions instead of 15 minutes. And she really sucks at the therapy bit.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

My psychiatrist also wants to do therapy. So she insists on hour sessions instead of 15 minutes. And she really sucks at the therapy bit.

Yeah. Mine is knowledgeable in skills such as DBT, but she just doesn't get the relationship part. Or maybe she does and I just don't like her style. All I know is that I would fire her if she was my T. She's too intimidating. Too stiff. Which makes my attachment to her seem odd. But she is a good Pdoc.

[PinkFlamingo99]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

My psychiatrist also wants to do therapy. So she insists on hour sessions instead of 15 minutes. And she really sucks at the therapy bit.

I hate it when my pdoc tries to get too into the therapy type stuff. It makes me uncomfortable. Sometimes I almost miss having one who didn't care at all (she would literally say "fair enough" in response to everything I told her, which was not much because she scared me).

[Ellahmae]

My pdoc wants to poach me from my T. She doesn't like that I tell her to stop talking when she tries to therapy me. She's there for meds and meds only. I have a fantastic t and I don't plan on leaving her.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[AllHeart]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

She's a good Pdoc. She researches a lot. But she plays therapist a lot. Sometimes I wish she would just stick to being a Pdoc. Maybe then I wouldn't be attached to her likes she doesn't like.

Maybe that's where the real issue lies -- not with your therapist, but, with the confusion your pdoc brings you. Pdoc seems to have a lot of conflicting statements so perhaps boundaries need to be set with her??

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

3.I think she's right about the end goal is me not needing therapy. Do I think I'm at my end goal? Not even close! I'm still struggling to get out of the house. Then I have to learn how to balance a relationship. And if I ever become a parent, I will want guidance/support. And I need to keep practicing DBT skills in order for them to come more naturally instead of depending on others to remind me.

I think everyone's end goal is to not need therapy. Why does pdoc tell you it will be good to continue to see her? For meds, I understand. But she is providing you with therapy also, which she is saying you don't need. That confuses me. It looks to me like you know exactly what you need and want. You are not at your end goal and that's perfectly ok! Do what you need to do, not what your pdoc thinks you need to do. If you need a therapist to help you do all of these things, then stay in therapy, be it with your current therapist or another.

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

Btw, I'm not being depressed on purpose. Pdoc said she doesn't think so either. She just doesn't think I'm in a depressive episode. She thinks my recent bout of depression is reactive due to my fears.

Any way you slice it, you are in depression. Am I correct in understanding that your pdoc thinks this depression will miraculously lift once you make the decision to quit therapy? Or do I misunderstand?

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

All I know is that I would fire her (pdoc) if she was my T. She's too intimidating. Too stiff. .

All the more reason to listen to YOU so you can fulfill your needs.

Based on all of your posts here in this thread, I can't see how quitting therapy is a wise choice for you. But I of course don't know everything there is to know. Only you do. So take what you know, trust your instincts, and go with it.

[JustShakey]

(((Scarlet)))
Your reaction to her in itself is, I think, proof that you still need therapy. You don't know your own mind well enough yet that you can be so easily influenced and thrown by another's opinions, even if they are the opinions of someone important to you. You are allowed to flat out disagree with Pdoc. It's your therapy and your life. You make the decisions for you.

[unaluna]

Your pdoc is like one of the five blind men describing an elephant - she recently grabbed onto the same part twice in a row, and is making her recommendation from that. Theres more to us than that quick snapshot. Emotional lability - ups and downs - IS the problem! Tell her to keep her tunic on! I.e., the one with the pocket that holds the script pads.

[Nammu]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

I feel like dying. And yet even saying that is a problem.

I saw my Pdoc today. I pretty much bawled my eyes out the whole appt. She wants me to want to quit therapy (yes, I typed that out right). She thinks that when that day comes, I will be basically healed from my BPD. She thinks therapy is actually halting my progress.

Last time I saw my Pdoc, I was talking to her about how I had ran out of things to say in therapy. And we talked about the possibility of reducing or terminating therapy. But things changed since our last appt. My T and I have found things to talk about and have even set new goals. We have also added the DBT workbook as a filler in case we run out of things to talk about again.

So I went to my Pdoc appt today. I told her that I have been dealing with depression and suicidal thoughts lately. She thinks, "in her clinical opinion" that the depression is an emotional reaction to the possibility of reduction/termination of therapy and the fear of getting better... I heard instead "You are faking your depression because you don't want to get better and lose your T ". So now I feel like ****.

Possible trigger:

So now I'm just toying with the idea of off'ing myself to prove that I'm really depressed and am not faking it.

Oh, and conveniently, we talked about it again how if I cut or if my suicidal thoughts become active that she will have to transfer me to county again...for legal reasons. Because her clinic isn't equipped to deal with that level of care. But in reality, her clinic has more resources than the county...

So she wants me to want to quit therapy. I feel like I'll be a fish flailing in a puddle of water. No support. Oh, but yet it's okay if I wind seeing her (my Pdoc) for years so long as I don't depend on it.

I know some of you are going to agree with my Pdoc. That's fine. Please, please be gentle. I'm really hurting from this and am not in a good place. And if you're going to agree explain why...why is okay for everyone else to be in long-term therapeutic relationships, some with very questionable boundaries, and a few with unrealistic expectations, but my relationship with my T is unhealthy for me.

Otherwise, I really need some support right now.

It sounds like progress to me. You recognized that what she said and what you heard was not the same thing.

Are you sure she wants to to quit right now, or to start weaning off and become less dependent on a T. Perhaps what she is really saying is that she believes you are ready to stand on your own and she recognizes that the fear can cause a relapse of behavior in response to perceived stress, if you don't acknowledge the feelings of fear?

Maybe cut back on the frequency of seeing your T and use the workbook in between sessions. Instead of going from full support to none, wean down?

[ScarletPimpernel]

I'm just thinking... one option could be to quit my Pdoc. I'd prefer not to, but it is an option. I could have my primary prescribe me my meds (she happens to also be a Pdoc) or I could go back to county. And if I went back to county, I could be in their DBT group again.

I don't want to give up my T. Not yet.

I still say your T and Pdoc need to talk and get on the same page. That may very well solve the issue.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My fear is my T getting on Pdoc's page...

Though thinking about all of this, Pdoc did this with ex-T. I don't remember when though. I don't think it was around the time of the termination since Pdoc was on maternity leave at the time.