[Argonautomobile]

Hello everyone. Sorry if this doesn't belong here, but I was hoping for some input. Last year I took my crisis-stricken self to the doctor's and was sent on my merry way with antidepressants and a referral to a therapist. No investigation into physical causes for my psychiatric problems whatsoever. Fine by me--anything to limit contact with scary people in scrubs.

Fast forward a year or so and I'm doing MUCH better. But now I need to see the doctor again to renew the prescription. My doc's no longer there, so I'm seeing someone new.

So what on earth is this appointment going to look like? Why do I even have to go in? Will the doctor just ask questions? Harass me about unrelated issues? God forbid examine my person?!

I have real problems with all things medical. Even thinking about this upcoming appointment makes me agitated, frightened, and hostile. Any input, advice, suggestions, commiseration, etc. would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks everyone.

[BrazenApogee]

I am terrified of doctors. I am lucky to have found one that understands and will work with me. I find it helpful to say just plainly say at the outset "I am afraid of doctors." That way they know what they are dealing with and don't freak me too much.

[ruh roh]

Is this a primary care doc? Because they will not likely do much except ask about your symptoms and any side effects. You report you're stable and would like to continue, and they will renew. If they try to change anything, just ask for a referral to a pdoc. I have never found anyone--doc or pdoc--that wanted to change things that were working. They often do not even want to change things that are not working.

That's my best guess. Of course, I've always had crappy health care and never found any of them all that interested in why I was there. They just need to get on to the next person--so it's assess, test and/or prescribe, g'bye.

[atisketatasket]

Is there some reason not just to go a psychiatrist? The most mine ever does is take my pulse and blood pressure. I suppose she has a scale in her office, but I have never been asked to use it. Seeing a psychiatrist seems to be very unlike a typical doctor appointment.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by BrazenApogee

I am terrified of doctors. I am lucky to have found one that understands and will work with me. I find it helpful to say just plainly say at the outset "I am afraid of doctors." That way they know what they are dealing with and don't freak me too much.

It's awful, isn't it? I'm glad you've found someone you can work with. Maybe I will try saying that overtly like a reasonable person instead of puking into the trash can.

Originally Posted by ruh roh

Is this a primary care doc? Because they will not likely do much except ask about your symptoms and any side effects. You report you're stable and would like to continue, and they will renew. If they try to change anything, just ask for a referral to a pdoc. I have never found anyone--doc or pdoc--that wanted to change things that were working. They often do not even want to change things that are not working.

That's my best guess. Of course, I've always had crappy health care and never found any of them all that interested in why I was there. They just need to get on to the next person--so it's assess, test and/or prescribe, g'bye.

This is a primary care doc. And thank you, you make it sound so simple! Very reassuring. Thanks a lot for your reply.

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Is there some reason not just to go a psychiatrist? The most mine ever does is take my pulse and blood pressure. I suppose she has a scale in her office, but I have never been asked to use it. Seeing a psychiatrist seems to be very unlike a typical doctor appointment.

I'd never really thought about it. My T suggested it once, but things leveled out and he didn't mention it again. I suppose I'd figured that if I needed to see a psychiatrist, they'd have given me a referral. And I can't go directly to a p-doc without a referral, I don't think? But thank you for your reply. I would feel ten times more comfortable seeing someone in a less clinical setting. I mean, nothing says "comfort" like a gleaming speculum on the table.

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by BrazenApogee

I am terrified of doctors. I am lucky to have found one that understands and will work with me. I find it helpful to say just plainly say at the outset "I am afraid of doctors." That way they know what they are dealing with and don't freak me too much.

i do the same. i pretty much just blurt out that i dont trust doctors. some ask why which is annoying. i avoid going to the doctor so much

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

i do the same. i pretty much just blurt out that i dont trust doctors. some ask why which is annoying. i avoid going to the doctor so much

You know, I've never actually said this overtly. I always sort of figured it would be obvious from my body language, demeanor, etc, but maybe they figure i'm just ALWAYS like that.

Anyway, sorry this is hard for you, too.

[Argonautomobile]

Appointment's in an hour Wish me luck...

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

Appointment's in an hour Wish me luck...

good luck!!!!!

[BrazenApogee]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

You know, I've never actually said this overtly. I always sort of figured it would be obvious from my body language, demeanor, etc, but maybe they figure i'm just ALWAYS like that.

Anyway, sorry this is hard for you, too.

No one can know what you are really experiencing until you tell them directly. Communicating is really important. I hope your appointment went ok.

[BudFox]

Hope you don't mind if i ask some potentially irritating or insulting questions.

If you are doing much better, have you thought about tapering off the drugs?

Since going to doctors makes you unwell, have you thought about not going to doctors? Or more specifically not going to conventional doctors who wear scrubs or lab coats, and instead seeing other types of practitioners who will investigate physical causes and who will, in my experience, not trigger the type of fear and anxiety that regular doctors seem to cause many people?

BTW, why do you suppose you have adverse reactions to doctors?

Hope you're appointment went ok.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

good luck!!!!!

Thank you, JunkDNA. I really appreciate it. Other than being told my T got promoted to an administrative role and is phasing out seeing patients, it was actually the least unpleasant appointment I've ever had. Very quick, questions only, no exam.

Originally Posted by BrazenApogee

No one can know what you are really experiencing until you tell them directly. Communicating is really important. I hope your appointment went ok.

Thanks again. You make a really good point, and I appreciate your response. Did not manage to say that today, but it turns out I didn't really need to. Relative painless exchange.

Originally Posted by BudFox

Hope you don't mind if i ask some potentially irritating or insulting questions.

If you are doing much better, have you thought about tapering off the drugs?

Since going to doctors makes you unwell, have you thought about not going to doctors? Or more specifically not going to conventional doctors who wear scrubs or lab coats, and instead seeing other types of practitioners who will investigate physical causes and who will, in my experience, not trigger the type of fear and anxiety that regular doctors seem to cause many people?

BTW, why do you suppose you have adverse reactions to doctors?

Hope you're appointment went ok.

I always appreciate your input, BF, and thank you for being interested and raising some good questions.

Last time I tried to quit the medication it was three months of utter misery. My depression returned with a vengeance and most of the people in my life gave me some version of "told you so." Granted, I went cold turkey off a heroic dosage of Wellbutrin, so maybe tapering down would yield a different result, but I'm afraid to risk it. I sometimes wonder if the reason wellbutrin (a norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor) works so well for me, and not taking it works so badly, doesn't have something to do with the decade (ages 15-25) I spent abusing various legal and illegal varieties of speed (a norepinephrine enhancer). Maybe my brain has no idea how to function without all that extra norepinephrine bouncing around in there. I wonder if it ever will.

You know anything about this, out of curiosity?

I'd love to not see doctors! I would definitely look into this (contingent on my insurance paying--an issue all in its own) if I had other or ongoing health concerns, but I actually feel very well right now. (Cleaning all the ******** out of my diet and getting back into gardening did wonders.)

My doctor phobia is multi-causal and pretty well entrenched. A childhood of "playing doctor" plus a terminally ill parent will do that to a person. My therapist has actually been quite helpful in this regard. He takes me on walks through the clinic as exposure therapy (and if I behave myself I get a milkbone when we get back to his office.)

Kidding about that last bit, of course.

[BudFox]

Don't you think the misery after stopping might actually be a withdrawal syndrome, especially given the cold turkey stopping, rather than a relapse? I'm no expert, just have read that ignorant docs often see the patient get worse upon stopping and say -- see the drug was "working", better continue. But in reality the brain and body are trying to compensate for the absence of the drug, which produces a sort of new disease, and what's needed is a months long careful taper.

Sorry didnt mean to probe into your doctor phobia, sounds pretty serious. I have some level of phobia also, but for different reasons.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Don't you think the misery after stopping might actually be a withdrawal syndrome, especially given the cold turkey stopping, rather than a relapse? I'm no expert, just have read that ignorant docs often see the patient get worse upon stopping and say -- see the drug was "working", better continue. But in reality the brain and body are trying to compensate for the absence of the drug, which produces a sort of new disease, and what's needed is a months long careful taper.

Sorry didnt mean to probe into your doctor phobia, sounds pretty serious. I have some level of phobia also, but for different reasons.

Well, it's certainly possible, but I guess I'll never know for sure. I've no plans to go off the medication anytime soon, but I thank you for offering a perspective other than "See? The pills were working. Keep taking them, dumbass," which is pretty much what everyone else told me.

No worries, you didn't pry. It's sort of refreshing to have someone actually ask. People tend not to, as though the prevailing attitude is something like "Nobody likes the doctor. Man up and deal with it." Sorry about your own phobia--what do you think causes it? Either way, it's a *****.

Thanks again.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

Well, it's certainly possible, but I guess I'll never know for sure. I've no plans to go off the medication anytime soon, but I thank you for offering a perspective other than "See? The pills were working. Keep taking them, dumbass," which is pretty much what everyone else told me.

No worries, you didn't pry. It's sort of refreshing to have someone actually ask. People tend not to, as though the prevailing attitude is something like "Nobody likes the doctor. Man up and deal with it." Sorry about your own phobia--what do you think causes it? Either way, it's a *****.

Thanks again.

Yea, I can see that, people conflating the idea of just not liking going to the doctor with a more serious fear with specific roots. For me I had surgery when I was 5yo wherein I think i was left alone in some terrifying way that left me kinda spooked. But on a more rational level, my adult experiences with mainstream medicine over the last several years have left me fearful of the whole biz, because of the basic paradigm, which I find to be mostly insane, dangerous, invasive, crude, and fanatically reliant on synthetic drugs. It looks sophisticated and hi tech, but most doctors are like cavemen, hitting every patient with the same hammer. I could rant for days...

I have a visceral response to conventional doctors offices, large clinics, hospitals. I feel threatened in their midst. These do not feel like places for healing or health, rather they are temples to disease. And they also feel inhuman, with a priority on processing customers through the system.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Yea, I can see that, people conflating the idea of just not liking going to the doctor with a more serious fear with specific roots. For me I had surgery when I was 5yo wherein I think i was left alone in some terrifying way that left me kinda spooked. But on a more rational level, my adult experiences with mainstream medicine over the last several years have left me fearful of the whole biz, because of the basic paradigm, which I find to be mostly insane, dangerous, invasive, crude, and fanatically reliant on synthetic drugs. It looks sophisticated and hi tech, but most doctors are like cavemen, hitting every patient with the same hammer. I could rant for days...

I have a visceral response to conventional doctors offices, large clinics, hospitals. I feel threatened in their midst. These do not feel like places for healing or health, rather they are temples to disease. And they also feel inhuman, with a priority on processing customers through the system.

How awful. What a frightening experience that must be for a child. I can imagine that would leave anyone more than a little spooked.

Your adult experience rings true to me. The word "Invasive" really got me. I guess I've never been able to stomach that, as a patient, you're asked and just expected to do all this **** that it would not be even remotely okay to ask of you in any other situation. Invasive questions, invasive requests, invasive procedures...and if you respond with anything less than pleasant compliance you're automatically "difficult." I could rant for days.

Anyway, thanks again for your responses. Hope you're doing well.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Argonautomobile

and if you respond with anything less than pleasant compliance you're automatically "difficult." .

Yes agree, and just read something that describes this approach and mindset quite well, from a psychiatrist no less...

"Many psychiatrists today work in assembly-line offices where they see patients they hardly know for fifteen minutes and then dole out pills to relieve pain, anxiety, or depression. Their message seems to be 'Leave it to us to fix you; just be compliant and take these drugs and come back in three months -- but but sure not to use alcohol or illegal drugs to relive your problems'. Such shortcuts in treatment make it impossible to develop self-care and self-leadership." -- Bessel van der Kolk MD

[Ididitmyway]

I just wanted to share a great resource for those who might be doubting the effectiveness of psych drugs they are taking and those who want and are ready to taper themselves off meds. It's www.beyondmends.com The woman who created the website has tapered herself off drugs and has been using all kinds of alternative practices. Her approach to healing is what is now called a mind-body-spirit integration, though I don't like this expression because it's become such a cliche. Her website is loaded with all kinds of resources and information.

You can find other folks writing about alternative treatments on Mad In America - Science, Psychiatry & Community

I myself don't even want to touch this subject because I hate pharmaceutical companies and, especially, psych drugs so passionately that if I start ranting about it I will never stop.

[BudFox]

Totally agree.

A lot of my understanding of psych drugs comes from the guy behind Mad in America (Robert Whitaker). His book "Anatomy of an Epidemic" was one of the most eye opening books I have ever read.

I am same way, I can be triggered into non-stop ranting about pharma and psychiatry at the drop of hat.

[Ididitmyway]

I haven't read Witaker's books but I've read some of his articles. Made perfect sense to me, but for me it wasn't really an eye opening experience. He just confirmed what I already knew. I believe, basic common sense is enough to understand the danger of those drugs. Whitaker just provided some research data that supported my own beliefs. There has been a number of psychiatrists who had the courage to confront the medical establishment about the validity of their claims. But that, again, is a big topic that requires a lot of mindfulness to have a meaningful discussion. I am not sure I am in the right state of mind for that. It's certainly an emotionally triggering topic for many people just like talk therapy is. That's why it's especially important to discuss it with the cool head.

[Argonautomobile]

Thanks for leaving the link, Ididitmyway. I, personally, have never met a pill I didn't like, and most of the people in my life share that sentiment, so I appreciate the opportunity to hear other perspectives.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I haven't read Witaker's books but I've read some of his articles. Made perfect sense to me, but for me it wasn't really an eye opening experience. He just confirmed what I already knew. I believe, basic common sense is enough to understand the danger of those drugs. Whitaker just provided some research data that supported my own beliefs. There has been a number of psychiatrists who had the courage to confront the medical establishment about the validity of their claims. But that, again, is a big topic that requires a lot of mindfulness to have a meaningful discussion. I am not sure I am in the right state of mind for that. It's certainly an emotionally triggering topic for many people just like talk therapy is. That's why it's especially important to discuss it with the cool head.

The thing about Whitaker's book is that it is sooo well written and well organized, very comprehensive, and there is no ranting or railing, it's not a polemic, he is not an ideologue. He just seems to be a very good investigative journalist and writer.

Psychiatrists that I've come across who challenge the system include Peter Breggin, David Healy, Bessel van der Kolk.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by BudFox

The thing about Whitaker's book is that it is sooo well written and well organized, very comprehensive, and there is no ranting or railing, it's not a polemic, he is not an ideologue. He just seems to be a very good investigative journalist and writer.

Psychiatrists that I've come across who challenge the system include Peter Breggin, David Healy, Bessel van der Kolk.

Sounds like this is the book I need to check out. I know the psychiatrists you've mentioned. I would also add Terry Lynch and Gabor Mate to the list. Their video presentations are excellent and I have great respect for both of them, as well as for van der Kolk who has a great comprehension of how trauma works, which is something the majority of therapists don't have, unfortunately, even though this is the the major area they should be trained in.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Sounds like this is the book I need to check out. I know the psychiatrists you've mentioned. I would also add Terry Lynch and Gabor Mate to the list. Their video presentations are excellent and I have great respect for both of them, as well as for van der Kolk who has a great comprehension of how trauma works, which is something the majority of therapists don't have, unfortunately, even though this is the the major area they should be trained in.

Gabor Mate is a genius, one of a kind. Especially on the topics of addiction, trauma, social/cultural factors in physical and mental illness. He has the wisdom and intellect of 100 men. Terry Lynch I don't know, thanks for the mention.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Gabor Mate is a genius, one of a kind. Especially on the topics of addiction, trauma, social/cultural factors in physical and mental illness. He has the wisdom and intellect of 100 men. Terry Lynch I don't know, thanks for the mention.

Totally agree on Gabor Mate. He is a giant visionary. I don't know of any other mental health professional with his level of insight on human conditions. What I appreciate about him the most is that he doesn't separate social and economic problems from mental problems of individuals but points out that our individual mental suffering is to a large degree caused by socio-economic conditions. He challenges the mental health profession to acknowledge this reality and to be on the frontier of social, economic and political reforms and argues that it's disingenuous to make individuals carry the load of the collective problems of the society. I completely share this view. In fact, this is the view that was introduced into the mental health profession back in 60-s and 70-s by postmodern psychotherapy that emphasized the ideas of feminist movement in therapy and tried to challenge and deconstruct the existing cultural narratives that were and still are influencing the profession. Unfortunately, their ideas didn't get big traction and were soon dismissed by most mainstream practitioners.

As to Terry Lynch, he is an Irish psychiatrist, also a deep thinker but not exactly of the same caliber as Gabor Mater. He is a mental health activist who is committed to challenging the profession and has been doing it for many years already. One if his books "Beyond Prozac" was published back in 80-s and was quite popular. Here is one of his video talks that may give you an idea of what he is doing Therapy Consumer Guide | Misinformation in Mental Health If you want more information just google his name.