[Trigger] Therapy as addiction

I would never push someone to file a complaint. It's can be a damaging and degrading process. I've seen therapists get their licenses back even after they've lost them for sexual abuse. It's therapists policing their own.

Yes but at least in my state board complaints are anonymous. So the victim is not on trial.

Its up to anyone if they want to complain or not complain

Board complaints are anonymous here as well. Oh for sure no one is required to report. I didn't.

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Exactly right. My complaint would go nowhere and it could blow up in my face and make things worse. No thanks.

BTW, I've been using the word seduction in the general sense, not in the sense of overtly sexual. Though in my case there was a little of the latter.

Pretty sure they're anonymous in all states - and anonymity is not the issue. How seriously the complaint is taken by the board is.

Right again. All this talk of reporting is just changing the subject. It also sends the message -- clients must play by the rules. Do not openly criticize or question, do not use review sites like Yelp, do not talk to other clients online. If you have a problem in therapy you have two options -- see a therapist about it, or file a complaint. In both cases, the system retains control. No thanks.

I think there is also a basic fallacy operating here. If someone says therapy was harmful, it's assumed to be of a sort that can be easily recognized and then boxed up and displayed as "bad therapy". That's nonsense. The harm can be insidious (as ATAT said), subtle, and progressive.

Did someone here enter therapy with that expectation?

I think you are confused. The point made earlier is that therapy is not reciprocal, and therefore is not natural and, in my opinion, not healthy at a basic level. That's my take.

Review on Yelp is a good idea! Or any other sites where one can review. It is a shame if someone says not to use reviews. if there was sexual seduction ( even if little as stated) it certainly warrants bad reviews! I don't think anyone objects to discussing abusive therapists or harmful therapy experiences. It's been discussed all the time on this forum. No one objects to taking to other clients or openly criticizing. I don't think the only method is filing a complaint. I'd certainly post bad reviews and tell other people about my bad experience

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It is really sad when complaints don't go anywhere ( like Scarlett's situation). And she has tons of evidence etc

As about seduction, if you file a complaint than your t seduced you but then say that you just meant therapy as an idea is based on seduction, then I agree it won't go well. Such complaint won't be taken seriously. Your t either seduced you or she didn't. I don't think you can file complaints about not liking the idea of therapy in general . I mean you can but it wouldn't be investigated.

Saying all that i sure hope that flirting seductress t at least got bad reviews!

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Seduction can just mean that you were led astray, not necessarily in a sexual way. If you're enticed into an attachment that feels real to you, but it isn't real, that's being led astray in a sense. I think strong attachment can happen even when a client is well informed (and is not hoping to create a real life reciprocal relationship whatsoever), if there are abandonment / neglect traumas in their past, or just painful loneliness. While I think a competent T could work through those things over the longer term, that clearly doesn't happen in a fair number of cases, judging by several of the posters here.

As it stands, the psychotherapy page here at Psych Central says "...for the most part, there is no harm in going into therapy even if you're not entirely certain you would benefit from it." I would have agreed until I started reading this forum, and while I view therapy as mostly useful to most people, I have a more complicated view of it now. It would be nice if the therapy world could (at least try to) screen people for attachment issues, and if those seem likely, they should be directed to T's who can meet a couple of times a week, accept out of session contact, handle transference carefully... and who are not about to retire / move / die / go on leave for months. Probably a pipe dream though.

The only types of harm that register with therapists and with therapy culture are sexual misconduct and a few other blatant things like obvious dual relationship, breach of confidentiality. The rest is the client's problem, no matter how badly therapy wrecks them.

If the therapist heaps extravagant amounts of attention on the client, because some half-baked theory says that's a good idea, and the client loses their mind and starts obsessing and can't see straight and then has to choose between continuing with this harrowing process or stopping and feeling shipwrecked... too bad. It's all part of the healing journey.

How do you determine extravagant amount of attention. Isn't it subjective?

One hour session a week or biweekly doesn't sound extravagant to me. I personally never felt that me sitting there and talking about whatever my issue was or her making suggestions for one hour was extravagant. But if my t insisted on seeing me let's say daily ( we had a member on here whose t wanted that clearly for monetary gain) or started calling me all the time on my own time, id consider it extravagant. Or if she started touching me (I know others are ok with it), I'd think it's way extravagant. But overall it's subjective.

What do you consider extravagant? How often dud you see your t ( the one you said tried to seduce you)? What kind of extravagant things she did? Did she make many out of session contacts? Insisted on seeing you more or saw you for free ( we had a member here whose t did that) or very long sessions? Or was all over you physically? ( ouch)

What made it extravagant ?

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Attention isn't just amount of time. It's also how someone looks at you, how into talking to you they seem to be, how understanding/empathic, etc.

Has that being open to error in your assumptions working for you?

You do realise to some onlookers to your posts they realise you are building a narrative that fits your fears.

Of course the only types of harm reconized by therapists are the ones that are clear cut. Otherwise it becomes a "he said, she said" type of thing. So according to you, therapists should lose their licence because a client started obsessing over them? Come on, that is highly subjective. A client is not always right and a therapist is not always wrong. What someone perceives as harmful can very well be very subjective. Of course boards don't take these accusations seriously.

I agree but what amount of attention is extravagant? Like is being very understanding could be considered extravagant? Or what type of conversational style is extravagant? Who determines it?

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Saying there therapy is not reciprocal (fact), therefore not natural (fact), therefore not healthy (my opinion)... what does this have to do with me or with fear?

I think the fear is manifesting in all these responses that ignore the subject at hand and instead go after the messenger's character.

I sure hope people don't enter therapy assuming it is reciprocal. The issue is you seem upset that therapy isn't reciprocal and suggesting since it's not reciprocal it's unhealthy. It is a service that one pays for and its not intended to be reciprocal, the same way other services aren't ( medical or otherwise), we hire people to perform service. It doesn't make it heathy or unhealthy, it just is.

. I think you have misconceptions about therapy as something meant to be resiprocal. You suggested therapists give disclaimers ahead of time and so on. I never expected it to be reciprocal so it never concerned me. If others need disclaimer I am ok with it.

if you consider therapy unhealthy, it is ok and basic solution is not to do therapy. I don't do plenty of things. It's ok that you consider it unhealthy. We are all different.

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But what is a subject at hand? You said therapy could be an addiction. Everyone agrees that everything could become an addiction. You then state that it's seduction and manipulation, few people agree but most state it "could" be in "some" cases. You then said it isn't reciprocal. It's a fact and nothing to discuss. It is a service that we pay for. You then said its unhealthy. That's opinion. And it's ok. It's been like same circular discussions.

You mentioned your t tried to sexually seduced you, it's horrid, you never said what exactly she did but it is unacceptable that she tried that if that's the case. We validate your feelings. You understandably are upset. I am sorry she did that.

Most people don't argue that therapy can be an addiction and obsession. I agree, it certainly can. What else do you want to discuss?

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In my experience, “going to therapy” was an addiction – only it’s like pain medication, if there’s still an underlying problem that’s causing the pain, then you will try to find something to help it. When medical doctors treat pain with medication they are usually very careful about monitoring that.

I kept going, trying to “find” the underlying cause and “treat” or “fix” that. Given the level of pain and dysfunction I was in, that seemed – and still seems – a reasonable thing to try to do. Only I had a view of what therapy could do, in an ideal world, as many books also reinforced, and the reality has been very different. Given the dysfunction that I came into therapy with I was really not able to see that for myself at the time.

I think the “addictive” component, at least for me, may be that therapy can tap unmet needs that the person has developed a defense against experiencing, and then when therapy opens that stuff up and DOES NOT MEET THE NEEDS AGAIN – what is a person to do? The defenses we developed as children to deal with those experiences are gone – we had enough trust to expose ourselves to that in the initial therapy – and then the therapist, the “outside social world”, in my way of looking at things, disappoints us AGAIN!!!

Maybe many people go to therapy without such deep unmet needs, but “therapy” in general – in book after book – is said to help with exactly those kinds of problems. And if/when you have them, then the “promise” or hope of help is very seductive. It is just very damaging when the therapist you though was competent to deal with things turns out not to be. If you haven’t been in that situation, then great, I can see how you couldn’t see how horrific it is. But can those of you who haven’t experienced just “try” to imagine it instead of dismissing us – and our needs and experiences – once again?

The problem with the system, as I see it, is that most therapists don't understand it either. I would like to discuss that.

Its not going after your character. Its just saying that anecdote is not evidence of a pattern. Its one persons story. Actually it fits into another different well defined pattern. You think youre a square peg in a round hole, but there is a square hole right... over... there! If only you would look!

(((Here today))) when you hit bottom, when things get bad enough, sometimes you can then find the courage to say what needs to be said to rescue yourself. If that sounds like blaming the client - well thats life. I dont think anybody has come up with any other way to do it. There is no outside help. Unless you choose religion or a cult or something else outside of yourself for help. Therapy is about finding it within yourself. Kinda by definition. Self-actualization. Somebody ELSE cannot tell you how to self-actualize. Only stand next to you as you do it.

I said nothing about losing licenses.

My point is that if a client is traumatized or exploited or subtly abused, in a way that falls outside narrowly defined concepts of harm as outlined in self-serving and vague ethics codes, nobody cares and it's rarely even mentioned. And the responsible therapist and his/her colleagues may well even shift the blame onto the client while denying the extent of the harm. I experienced this firsthand. And if the client does want to report the harm, it will likely go nowhere. The profession is organized to protect itself above all else, and this manifests in everything it says and does.

I'm not raising a legal question. It's a question of what the biz is doing to people, and its level of transparency, accountability, honesty about it.

Of course this is subjective. How would you know the outcome of any therapy unless you asked the client about their subjective experience? Should I ask my therapist if therapy was harmful for me? The therapist is almost always going to distort reality to save their a*s and their beliefs.

You know, I have been trying, and I've been thinking about this since the thread was posted. A few pages back, I talked about how hard it was for me to imagine a therapeutic encounter as good as/better than an amphetamine high. I asked whether it was possible for another person to make you feel that good.

It was mostly a rhetorical question--clearly the answer is yes, as the addiction metaphor resonates with so many people. I've found myself mulling over what exactly it is that a therapist (or anyone, really) can offer that feels so good.

I guess I was always sort of operating under the assumption that other people do not have it in their power to make you feel all those warm fuzzies--hence the existence and abuse of drugs.

I mean, It's not that I've never experienced the seeming profundity of feeling loved and accepted, it's just that I was always high when it happened. I thought that was the molly talking. I didn't think it happened independently of a chemical high.

It's not that I think ya'll are lying, and it's not that I can't empathize--I recognize when other people are in pain and it looks just ****ing awful--it's just kind of blowing my mind. Like, WTF am I missing out on, here? And if therapy is supposed to provide it in a concentrated dose like a great big cocaine slap to the face, how is it that I'm not feeling that?

Maybe the problem, as you say, is that not even the therapists understand quite how it works. Or, at least, are ill-equipped to deal with it when it comes up.

I don't really think we can tell people how and what their therapy ( or anything else for that matter) is. You can't tell people their therapy is seduction and manipulation or is unhealthy as you aren't there and don't know people here and don't know what they do in therapy and who their therapist is. By the same token we can't tell you that your therapy was not seduction and manipulation and was unhealthy. If you say it was, then it was. I find it pointless to tell other people what their experience is or should be.
But maybe it serves some purpose like venting does.

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