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  #26  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 12:52 PM
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Everything can be potentially addictive, people might get obsessed with objects/activities/other people. I am not addicted to t but I am have been unhealthy attached to some men in the past and I am obsessively cleaning neat freak who needs everything in the house like its staged and I am a former smoker who still wants to smoke every day. I don't think therapy is any different. People with obsessive tendencies might get addicted to anything including seeing a t. It can certainly happen.

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  #27  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 03:25 PM
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I do think that relationships can be addictive for some people and in that context, therapy would be too. My therapist mentioned this when I first saw her. Not addiction, but that some therapists encourage dependency. She wanted me to know up front that this was not her approach. That in her mind, therapy should have an end in sight and this should be made clear to clients from the start. This was the first time I had ever had a T say this to me and I really appreciated her honesty.
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  #28  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 03:40 PM
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I don't have any chemical addictions but if I did, specialists in that kind of thing usually say it's not so easy just to kick the habit through the exercise of "personal responsibility". It's hard enough for people to see when they are addicted to known addictive substances or behaviors, let alone a behavior that one starts in order to get "help" without any fair warning of the potential harmful side effects.

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  #29  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 03:41 PM
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Why not take 'fault' out of the equation. But that's scary. If sometimes to blame, life is in order
Fault/blame is usually brought into the convo as a red herring diversionary tactic and defense mechanism, by those who are frightened by close examinations of therapy.

I just wanted to talk about the addictive nature of therapy. The fault/blame stuff is silly.
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  #30  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 03:46 PM
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I do think that relationships can be addictive for some people and in that context, therapy would be too. My therapist mentioned this when I first saw her. Not addiction, but that some therapists encourage dependency. She wanted me to know up front that this was not her approach. That in her mind, therapy should have an end in sight and this should be made clear to clients from the start. This was the first time I had ever had a T say this to me and I really appreciated her honesty.
This sounds like a realistic approach. I've never had a T say that, but hopefully in time it will become more common.
  #31  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 04:44 PM
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I'm sure OP doesn't want this thread closed and it will be if it carries on like this. It's an interesting topic and I'm sure we all agree it would be nice to have a thread legitimately examining a potential pitfall of therapy, rather than needlessly descending into chaos. Let's respect the OP's right to expression and discussion.
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  #32  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 04:47 PM
WrkNPrgress WrkNPrgress is offline
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Technically you could view any human contact as addictive. Physical Affection releases oxytocin which stirs up endorphins and an actual physical high. The addiction comes from the feeling, not the actual person. A person is not a drug and I would argue neither is the process of therapy. It is only the feelings that arise in that situation that may or may not stir up those feelings.

I would also argue that obsession and obsessive behaviors are inherent in the person who is an 'addict' in this metaphor. Just as with an actual drug, some people can enjoy something while not becoming addicted while others will fall into that hole immediately often with more than just one type of 'drug'. It is a solid argument that Addiction is inherent in the user - not the drug itself.

If one simply can not stand the thought of ever being 'addicted' to someone, however, then one could choose not to be dependent on anyone for anything.

That's one choice but I'd rather have people in my life. I am learning that I am very much capable of withstanding the pain of disillusionment and occasional rejection. For that I am a better person.

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  #33  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 05:40 PM
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I would say people can get addicted to nearly anything. The only thing making me wonder about the addictive nature of therapy is that access is controlled so you can't really "overdo it"
For example not exactly therapy but I see a massage therapist and our sessions are the most fun and relaxing part of my week some weeks. I really look forward to them and usually can't wait for my next session. But my massage therapist is heavily booked and a I only see her once every 2 weeks for 2 hours. No matter how badly I.might want another session, I can't have one. So there is no real point in obsessing about it. Sometimes I really really want another session but I don't fixate on it because I know I can't have it. Maybe in the case of actual addiction you don't care about that and that is why we have people who act like stalkers etc....hmmm...
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  #34  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 05:58 PM
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I think it might be useful for t to give a disclaimer to kind of cover themselves and warn a client "you might become obsessed and attached to me". But that's only sounds good on paper. How is it going to look in reality. Should every good looking t warn clients that they are going to desire her sexually? Or should they only warn ones that appear to be vulnerable? Or of certain gender? Should it be verbal or in written form. It's crazy making.


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  #35  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 06:07 PM
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Technically you could view any human contact as addictive. Physical Affection releases oxytocin which stirs up endorphins and an actual physical high. The addiction comes from the feeling, not the actual person. A person is not a drug and I would argue neither is the process of therapy. It is only the feelings that arise in that situation that may or may not stir up those feelings.
I for one said nothing about being addicted to the person of the therapist. I see it as process addiction. Getting a regular fix of focused attention and mirroring, delivered in concentrated form. The therapist does become the object of that craving I guess, but only because of the role they are playing.

I agree that some people are more prone to addictive impulses than others. Seems the substances and processes are somewhat interchangeable. All the more reason, then, to recognize therapy as having high addictive potential and to make it part of the conversation and consent. Yet I never see the professional literature or individual therapists talk about this. Instead they focus on the behavior of the client once hooked into dependency, forgetting or ignoring what they have engineered.

I'd also wager that many therapy relationships are a case of co-addiction. I can say with reasonable certainty that my ex T was addicted to the process also.
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  #36  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BayBrony View Post
I would say people can get addicted to nearly anything. The only thing making me wonder about the addictive nature of therapy is that access is controlled so you can't really "overdo it"
For example not exactly therapy but I see a massage therapist and our sessions are the most fun and relaxing part of my week some weeks. I really look forward to them and usually can't wait for my next session. But my massage therapist is heavily booked and a I only see her once every 2 weeks for 2 hours. No matter how badly I.might want another session, I can't have one. So there is no real point in obsessing about it. Sometimes I really really want another session but I don't fixate on it because I know I can't have it. Maybe in the case of actual addiction you don't care about that and that is why we have people who act like stalkers etc....hmmm...
I think Bud's point is that the limiting of access itself feeds the addiction. And I would say that the nature of therapy is different from seeing a masseuse regularly because therapy isn't physical. Lots of it is emotional. You are physically not able to have another session with your massage therapist, so you deal. But therapists often make themselves emotionally available outside of session - emails, texts, phone calls - and some clients are often worrying about their therapists and their feelings in various ways, or hurt by them in various ways, or worrying they'll lose texting and email, etc. And some clients spend all week looking forward to their nect session, thinking about what they'll say, what the therapist will say, anticipating it, etc. That indicates a much, much stronger hold than just doing something you enjoy every two weeks.

I'm not saying that therapy is addictive, but I am saying that there is fertile ground there for addiction. It doesn't happen to everyone, just like some people can drink without issues and others become alcoholics. I don't think saying that access is controlled means it's not addictive - it's the limitation of access that makes it addictive. Scarcity breeds demand, etc.
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  #37  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post
I think Bud's point is that the limiting of access itself feeds the addiction. And I would say that the nature of therapy is different from seeing a masseuse regularly because therapy isn't physical. Lots of it is emotional. You are physically not able to have another session with your massage therapist, so you deal. But therapists often make themselves emotionally available outside of session - emails, texts, phone calls - and some clients are often worrying about their therapists and their feelings in various ways, or hurt by them in various ways, or worrying they'll lose texting and email, etc. And some clients spend all week looking forward to their nect session, thinking about what they'll say, what the therapist will say, anticipating it, etc. That indicates a much, much stronger hold than just doing something you enjoy every two weeks.

I'm not saying that therapy is addictive, but I am saying that there is fertile ground there for addiction. It doesn't happen to everyone, just like some people can drink without issues and others become alcoholics. I don't think saying that access is controlled means it's not addictive - it's the limitation of access that makes it addictive. Scarcity breeds demand, etc.

Well I simplified my example for the same of simplicity.... My massage therapist is actually an energy trauma therapist--- so we discuss my trauma and work on the trauma as its held in my physical body ( which I thought was bs til i did it). I find it more intimate than therapy in some ways because I am talking about my trauma while being touched, etc.I cry during every session and it is very very intense
We often talk over email ( mostly though because we are kindred souls who would be new BFFs if she wasn't doing trauma work with me). So it's similar. I crave it more than therapy right now ( but I also do it less frequently).
I was just trying to use a different example than my T because I see my T several times a week.

For me, the very limited availability works as a deterrent to being "addicted".
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  #38  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 06:24 PM
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That being said its the very things Bud talks about-- intimacy in a softly lit room, careful attention to my comfort, attunement to my feelings ( she actually picks up subtle stuff from me way better than my T), privacy, the comfort she gives me while I'm being vulnerable that make me crave it so.much.
Its just for me the lack of availability acts as a control on the craving
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  #39  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 06:29 PM
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That being said its the very things Bud talks about-- intimacy in a softly lit room, careful attention to my comfort, attunement to my feelings ( she actually picks up subtle stuff from me way better than my T), privacy, the comfort she gives me while I'm being vulnerable that make me crave it so.much.
Its just for me the lack of availability acts as a control on the craving
Okay - I understand your point better now. I still think that (generally speaking, not for you specifically) the two experiences are different, but since I can't even let a masseuse get close to me, I can hardly compare them.
  #40  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 06:38 PM
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Okay - I understand your point better now. I still think that (generally speaking, not for you specifically) the two experiences are different, but since I can't even let a masseuse get close to me, I can hardly compare them.
Also, I guess what I was trying to say at the end, maybe for people who become addicted that lack of availability is triggering/traumatizing/anxiety producing.....where for me its not. Most of the time, anyway.
It might be that people who get addicted might have a certain set of issues that make them.particularly vulnerable.
I think, if there was enough research dollars put at it, we could devise testing that would help identify people who might have more negative than positive effects from therapy, just as we are learning that genetic testing might help identify people with a significant susceptibility to.opiod addiction BEFORE they are started on narcotic pain meds. For those susceptible people alternative methods of pain control and/or awareness of pitfalls are better than the standard approach
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  #41  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 06:38 PM
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I think of therapy as something that works best when done regularly. Like exercise or meditation. I miss it when I don't do it. I'm contemplating reducing sessions or quitting altogether for financial reasons and, while I'd rather continue because I still suffer from depression/anxiety, I don't feel desperate about it or like my world is going to fall apart without my T. As Argonautobile said, I'm not selling my belongings or stealing or doing anything else crazy to get more sessions. So TBH, having known some serious drug addicts and seen how they were affected, the comparison seems really inapt to me.

At the same time, I can see the parallel with addiction in some of the experiences related on this forum; some people do indeed seem psychologically addicted to therapy or their therapist. I'm not saying that doesn't happen. But I think there's a distinction to be made between "I am addicted to therapy" which is a thing that can happen, and "Therapy is an addiction" which is a sweeping generalization about therapy and one that does not hold true for me, or, apparently, for many people.
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  #42  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 07:51 PM
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But I think there's a distinction to be made between "I am addicted to therapy" which is a thing that can happen, and "Therapy is an addiction" which is a sweeping generalization about therapy and one that does not hold true for me, or, apparently, for many people.
The title of the thread is "therapy as addiction" (rather than "therapy is an addiction"). I'm not saying all therapy = addiction. My assertion is that therapy has high potential for addiction or dependency but is never described that way publicly (which undermines claims of ethical standards in the profession).
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  #43  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 07:59 PM
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Therapy per se wasn't addicting. But it was infantilizing, leaving me manipulated by clinicians who pretended to be god figures. I felt subjugated to them, worshipful, similar to the bondage I understand cult members have. Though I long since made physical break, freeing the emotional chains to my therapists has taken far longer.
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  #44  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 08:34 PM
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lavishing of attention and empathy, unconditional acceptance and validation,
This really struck a chord with me, in that I'd haven't detected these things happening, but your point is well taken--I imagine some people might be addicted to being lavished with attention and acceptance. A disclaimer or warning from a therapist would rub me the wrong way, though. I don't know how to solve it.

I'm tempted to ask my therapist if she could demonstrate some mirroring so I can see what that looks like.
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  #45  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 08:59 PM
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The process of therapy certainly has a great potential to become an addiction. Not sure what could be done about it though.

Working out could become an addiction ( I had that happened too, had to work out several hours a day or I couldn't function well, it was several months of this craziness.) Gym didn't have any disclaimer that one can become addicted and excessive exercise is actually a very common addiction. I didn't feel though that it was their responsibility to warn me. I don't know. Hard to tell. I think their warning wouldn't make any difference. I would overdo it just the same

I wonder though if therapists could help their clients to focus on goals rather than let them fixate on a therapist and have therapy for the sake of therapy. I wonder if some Ts need to practice tough love and let the client know in the very first session they will never be lovers or friends or family and therapy will not be forever. Reality check right from the beginning. It just sounds really silly to me when I imagine my t saying that.

I don't know what the solution is

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  #46  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 09:27 PM
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The process of therapy certainly has a great potential to become an addiction. Not sure what could be done about it though.

Working out could become an addiction ( I had that happened too, had to work out several hours a day or I couldn't function well, it was several months of this craziness.) Gym didn't have any disclaimer that one can become addicted and excessive exercise is actually a very common addiction. I didn't feel though that it was their responsibility to warn me. I don't know. Hard to tell. I think their warning wouldn't make any difference. I would overdo it just the same

I wonder though if therapists could help their clients to focus on goals rather than let them fixate on a therapist and have therapy for the sake of therapy. I wonder if some Ts need to practice tough love and let the client know in the very first session they will never be lovers or friends or family and therapy will not be forever. Reality check right from the beginning. It just sounds really silly to me when I imagine my t saying that.

I don't know what the solution is

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I've been through periodic bouts of exercise addiction too (usually when I was in poor shape emotionally or mentally - which would explain the many many hours at the gym now). But again there's a physical vs. emotional difference here. The gym may not warn you that exercise may be addictive, but it does warn you that you should consult with a doctor before starting any exercise program - because that's where their liability comes in.

I don't know that possible addiction is the biggest risk factor in entering therapy, and I agree that clients might well ignore the warning (people still smoke cigarettes despite the warning on every package). Which raises the question: if the profession were to start giving clients a warning ("therapy may be harmful to your mental health!") doesn't it just amount to cya? To give clients a warning does not mean they will listen.
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  #47  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by atisketatasket View Post
I think Bud's point is that the limiting of access itself feeds the addiction. And I would say that the nature of therapy is different from seeing a masseuse regularly because therapy isn't physical. Lots of it is emotional. You are physically not able to have another session with your massage therapist, so you deal. But therapists often make themselves emotionally available outside of session - emails, texts, phone calls - and some clients are often worrying about their therapists and their feelings in various ways, or hurt by them in various ways, or worrying they'll lose texting and email, etc. And some clients spend all week looking forward to their nect session, thinking about what they'll say, what the therapist will say, anticipating it, etc. That indicates a much, much stronger hold than just doing something you enjoy every two weeks.

I'm not saying that therapy is addictive, but I am saying that there is fertile ground there for addiction. It doesn't happen to everyone, just like some people can drink without issues and others become alcoholics. I don't think saying that access is controlled means it's not addictive - it's the limitation of access that makes it addictive. Scarcity breeds demand, etc.
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  #48  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 09:56 PM
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Actually there is a connection between physical exercise and emotional state, there very much is.

I don't know if therapist should give warnings that client might get addicted. Maybe they should, just don't know how it supposed to look? If my t told me I might get obsessed with her I'd probably laugh. I went to therapy to address specific Issue not have a relationship with t.

Maybe if clients starting to get too attached, t can address it ASAP. But i
just don't see how it could be addressed ahead of time

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  #49  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 10:35 PM
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This really struck a chord with me, in that I'd haven't detected these things happening, but your point is well taken--I imagine some people might be addicted to being lavished with attention and acceptance. A disclaimer or warning from a therapist would rub me the wrong way, though. I don't know how to solve it.

I'm tempted to ask my therapist if she could demonstrate some mirroring so I can see what that looks like.
Was just talking about this with someone. There was a quality of tone of voice, eye contact and gaze, body language and other subtle cues with my ex T that felt unprecedented. I felt as if I was being mirrored and seen and heard as never before. Seemed to awaken fearsome longings. After that I could think of nothing else. Has been ruinous. Some things are better left alone perhaps, or at least not tinkered with in this way.
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  #50  
Old Aug 01, 2016, 11:08 PM
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I wonder though if therapists could help their clients to focus on goals rather than let them fixate on a therapist and have therapy for the sake of therapy. I wonder if some Ts need to practice tough love and let the client know in the very first session they will never be lovers or friends or family and therapy will not be forever. Reality check right from the beginning. It just sounds really silly to me when I imagine my t saying that.

I don't know what the solution is

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My therapist did say this to me. She worded it in a very causal way when she described how she worked: For her, therapy (usually) is meant to end. Not end as in a specific amount of sessions, but that eventually clients don't need therapy anymore. She described therapists who seem to encourage the opposite, with clients going to weekly sessions indefinitely. I know some people may not have appreciated her direct approach, but I did and it didn't sound weird at all. It did let me know right away that my time in therapy would be spent working toward a goal, which is important for me. When the goal is reached, sessions became less of a priority and eventually ceased in a progressive natural way. But when therapy goals are vague and the focus is mainly on the therapeutic relationship, I can see a potential for addiction.
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