Do you consider that doing therapy means one is brave or anything of that nature?

That's why you keep me around!

I think it takes a very strong and brave person to be in therapy. Its not for the faint of heart. Its tough, confusing work.

What if someone is weak and cowardly--can they not be in therapy?
(serious question)

I am sure there is plenty therapists who'll coddle you if you pay them.

I seen one therapist on some talk show and she said her methods involve hugging a teddybear and standing in front of mirror naked, telling yourself you are wonderful... so no need to be "brave" for this, you just need to have plenty cash to waste.

Lots of people who want to consider themselves brave do lots of dismissing of others along the way. I am brave cause I do so and so, if you don't do it, it means you had it better, you are lucky or not so brave.

Maybe in some case slapping "brave" label on themselves is just... they don't want to admit moment of weakness... it's perfectly okay to have those.

I was extremely weak when I started this round of therapy. I was spending most of my days in bed because I was in such a state of prolonged grief. My therapist noted several times that I seemed like I was in a state of "collapse". Restoring my strength and courage has been a goal, not a precondition, of my therapy.

Venuss, this whole post is just full of condescension: saying people in therapy are "coddled if you pay [the therapist] enough" and "have plenty of cash to waste", and saying they are "slapping" the brave label on themselves as if they do so without thought. That it has nothing to do with fear, but it is about "weakness".

I have an eating disorder and severe body dysmorphia and I can tell you that standing in front of a mirror named telling myself I am awesome would take a crap load of courage .

and I'm in general a physically brave person in the sense that some people in this thread seem to think defines bravery. I've leapt into a frozen river to save a drowning dog, rescued people from aggressive horses at great risk to myself , etc etc.

I'd rather do any of those things than stand in front of a mirror naked.

This idea actually makes me a little sad. I suspect there are plenty of weak and fearful people in therapy, who may be deriving great benefits from it. i know some of these people myself! (And I may even be or have been one of them.)

I seriously don't think Cinnamon Stick was in any way saying that weak and cowardly people should not be in therapy; I suspect most people realize that. My guess is she was simply respecting people who are in therapy for who they are and the work they do. I hate to see her being blasted for what really seems pretty clearly a post of respect, not one meant to be taken as an insult.

Wait, no-- I was certainly not "blasting" Cinnamon Stick! I just said the idea her post expressed made me a little sad. I certainly didn't take it as an insult either- I have no idea what would be insulting about it.

I just offered a different perspective from my own experience. If that differs from that of "most people", so be it. I like to learn from other people's thoughts, and I shared my own in that spirit.

Replying to someone's respectful post with respective questions and comments is not blasting someone. It's replying to someone; participating in the discussion.

True, I could have used a different word. How about criticized? But it seems to perhaps be collectively heading that way. Just hate to see that happen to a poster who is known to be very respectful and kind and whose intentions seemed to be positive, not negative. I apologize if I also misinterpreted you replies.

Wow, I feel like I've seen this play before - the dialogue will continue to degenerate and eventually the thread will be shut down.

I think Skiess' question in response to Cinnamon is a totally fair one. To say that being in therapy is strong and brave (a universal, general statement) does indeed suggest that the weak and cowardly need not apply. And it should be answered instead of just being dismissed. Just like someone saying that it is not courageous to be in therapy or that some therapists do indeed peddle "courage" to their clients (and I would bet some do) is being taken by those who think it is courageous as somehow telling them they are not as courageous as they like to think they are. I think Venus's post was condescending towards a certain breed of therapist (which I'm pretty sure does exist), not clients or fellow posters.

What is the point of the way this discussion has turned? We have moved from the subjective question of the poll and we're now trying to objectively establish whether or not it is courageous to be in therapy. The choices are:

A. It is strong and courageous to be in therapy.
B. It is not strong and courageous to be in therapy.

Why is there no

C. It is not necessarily strong and courageous to be in therapy, but it can be.

Even if it were objectively established that it takes courage to be in therapy, I would not consider myself courageous to do so. Even if it were objectively established that it was not courageous to be in therapy, those who consider themselves courageous to do it would not believe that they were not courageous.

We are not tasked with definitively solving the mysteries of the therapeutic universe here.

I think that is the point most of us ARE trying to make.

It's getting lost in translation, then.

It doesn't bother me if someone doesn't think being in therapy has anything to do with bravery or if they believe it's therapist-manipulation to talk of bravery. I would have never thought to apply this concept to myself in therapy even up to just a couple months ago. But it has changed and now I am knock-kneed terrified of what I'm going through. Maybe for someone else, it would be nothing. That's okay. Maybe I am not made of strong stuff, so for me this is a big deal. Good for anyone who doesn't think it applies. For me, it does.

D. It's a subjective experience rather than one defined by objective criteria

Even though some of us are saying this, we still don't seem to be seeing eye-to-eye. There is a lot of nuance here, and people have expressed divergent opinions. (That's what makes it all so interesting to me!)

I think that this is a much more complicated question than it appears at first glance. While I do believe that some therapists will tell their clients that they believe that they are being brave in order to manipulate them, I also believe that some therapists would say something like this completely sincerely. I would compare it to the idea of a guy telling a girl that he loves her. There is no doubt that some men are going to say that he loves a girl with the intention of manipulating her into having sex with him. There is also no doubt that some men are going to say that he loves her because he is head over heels in love with her.

On the other side of the equation, there are some clients who will pretend that they are exiting their comfort zone by sharing something apparently significant - giving the appearance of being brave, when actually they are remaining in control by sharing something that, regardless of how sensitive the information is, really has no power to hurt them any longer. Another client may share something that appears relatively benign, and yet for them, it holds incredible significance and has been a carefully guarded secret for their entire life. One is brave, the other simply gives the appearance of bravery.

From another angle, there are those who go to therapy their entire life and use therapy as a way to maintain the status quo - a grounding tool if you will. I don't think that there is anything wrong with this but it is significantly different (to me) than a person going into therapy with the idea of breaking down internal walls and being dedicated to real change in their lives. Both are valid uses of therapy imo - we use a claw hammer to pound nails in but we can also use the claw part of the hammer to remove bent nails. We use said hammer according to our needs.

I don't think Cinnamon's post suggests the weak and cowardly need not apply at all. My spin on it is if one views themselves as weak and cowardly yet chooses to endure the hardships therapy brings about they are not giving themselves enough credit for being courageous or brave.

Then the statement needed to be clarified. Both interpretations are quite valid, though the one you offer also suggests that there is an objective bravery in going to therapy.

There isn't objective bravery in anything. Bravery is dependent on the interpretation of the person making the judgement. Thus some people consider conscientious objectors brave for standing by their convictions despite scorn or consequences and othve aers consider them cowards for refusing to go to war. Most people consider soldiers brave but some people consider them to.just he doing a job that is barbaric and therefore not brave.. We usually only regard soldiers on our ownsude as brave, also.

First responders I think most people would agree are brave. But if you go.into.a burning building to save a dog some people will think you are brave and other people will think you are an.idiot

There is also evidence that altruistic behavior is genetically encoded in mammals meaning that bravery is just the selfish work.of our genome preserving itself..objective bravery does not exist.

Yes...this is what I have been saying for the entire thread.

I do not know if meds and gin have dissolved all my brain cells but sometimes I just feel too stupid for this forum. I used to pride myself on my intellect. 4 degrees, speak 3 languages, but it seems as I get older and crazier, I get dumber. This isn't meant as a criticism of anyone or anything, just as a general observation of my mental decline......

But I always enjoy reading everyone's posts.

I also feel like I get dumber every year. Not so much older as dumber. I have the same number of degrees you do, so maybe we should have gone for a fifth?