[rainbow8]

Not that I ever thought she was! We talked about our email exchange and I said some people think Ts act nice because they want the money! She made a face and said "don't listen to them", at least regarding her. She noted that we've seen each a long time and her feelings about my email were real. I said "we both wrote from our hearts" and it was love. She agreed. She asked how it made me feel and if I could hold onto that feeling. I almost sabotaged it during the week but I want to write about that in another thread.

My T's acted kindly and supportively because they are kind and supportive individuals. You know your therapist; don't let other people convince you they somehow know your therapist better than you.

While I'm sure there are some T's out there who act nice only because they are being paid, I'm not cynical enough to believe it is even most of them. A person would burn out in a profession where they lived in that kind of professional irony all the time.

[bounceback]

Most Ts aren't in it for the money. Therapists really don't make that much. I have had many tell me this. If they wanted more money they would have had a different career.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by bounceback

Most Ts aren't in it for the money. Therapists really don't make that much. I have had many tell me this. If they wanted more money they would have had a different career.

Yeah, I had No. 1 tell me that. I resisted pointing out she'd just sold her house for just under a million.

But I think as with most professions, people are drawn to the profession and salary is secondary (provided you can at least live on it).

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by bounceback

Most Ts aren't in it for the money. Therapists really don't make that much. I have had many tell me this. If they wanted more money they would have had a different career.

Some people post statements like that but I think it's more about T's not caring, not about how much they earn. But if a T makes $100/hr. and sees 35 clients weekly, isn't that a lot of money?

My T and I had a talk about that once. First, since he takes insurance, he generally contracts to receive less than his full fee from the insurance companies. He also has quite a bit of overhead: rent, salaries for staff, insurance for himself and staff, utilities, etc., not to mention the portion of that which would be accounted for in taxes. He's not a rich man. He's making a middle class salary when all is said and done.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Some people post statements like that but I think it's more about T's not caring, not about how much they earn. But if a T makes $100/hr. and sees 35 clients weekly, isn't that a lot of money?

Not once you factor in taxes and overhead (rent, utilities, self-employment insurance, etc.).

If the therapist makes $3000/week, about a third will go in taxes if they have no dependents or just a spouse. (I also think self-employed taxes may be higher.). They have to contribute to Social Security and Medicare, pay for their own health insurance if a spouse doesn't cover them, and probably state taxes too. Say their office rent is $1000/month for two rooms. Or say they have an assistant with a salary, who also has money deducted from their paycheck. I would imagine that three thousand can become 1000 or less a week very quickly.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by bounceback

Most Ts aren't in it for the money. Therapists really don't make that much. I have had many tell me this. If they wanted more money they would have had a different career.

This is true. I'm not saying they can't make a good living, many do, especially if they are cash pay only. However, most Ts need to take insurance for a good part of their career if they want to keep a steady caseload- the average client can't afford $125 out of pocket per week for a therapist. Starting pay for a newly licensed T is about $40 an hour or $50,000 a year. Where I live, that's fine, but far from a lot of money. So if you're picking a career based on guaranteed earning potential, therapy isn't the one to choose.

[stopdog]

I think power is a lot more seductive to therapists than money. The ones I have seen have never had any staff and have all office shared. I am both an employee of the university where I teach and I am in practice as a sole practitioner. I pay quarterly taxes etc. There are ways to manage taxes etc even if one does not have offspring or a spouse.

[bounceback]

My last T was single and worked for a mental health clinic. She had to pay car payments, house payments, misc bills. We lived in Alaska also where everything is super expensive.

[Pennster]

Many therapists in my area take no insurance and charge in the region of $300+.

I don't think for one moment that my therapist is in it for the money (because he's really good at what he does), but the earning potential for decent therapists around here is high. I don't tend to believe that my therapist is making much of a financial sacrifice to do what he does.

[Myrto]

I live in Western Europe and from what I can gather, therapists work very differently than in the United States. For instance, most therapists in my city practice from home (I'm not talking about the ones who work in a hospital of course). So no rent. They don't have staff and there's no insurance so no paperwork and no need to pay for insurance or any of that. Then again, I've noticed the fees are considerably lower here than in the US: I could not afford the fees I see mentioned on this forum! So I don't think that therapists are necessarily in it for the money itself. But it's a vey comfortable job: you practice from home so no traffic jam in the morning, no stress. You're sitting the whole time. One therapist I saw for two months told me she had become a psychologist because she was interested in how people's brain works. She said nothing about "wanting to help people". I also think a lot of therapists must like the attention from their clients who sometimes worship them. I think that plays a part. Some therapists are of course caring and like to listen of course and genuinely want to help people, I'm not saying they're all cynical.

[Sarmas]

My T was doing well. Her and her husband are another Ts. In this area houses are cheap. A house might sell for about $40,000. Not everyone has a mortgage. Her brother lives upstairs and the downstairs she made into 4 rooms for therapy. She has her own and rents out the other three rooms to Ts. Some Ts share a room and divide the cost. According to her she doesn't charge much for the rental of the rooms. I know she used to receive from my insurance $86.50 and then I gave her a $15 copay. She only takes the fest insurance which are about three otherwise you have to pay her and then submit it to your insurance. Her sliding scale isn't low. She's the cheapest around this area. I've seen t's that charge $150 and hour. Their sliding scale starts at $100. The alternative is to go to community counseling where therapy there is subpar with a big waiting list. My T lives in a wealthy area and has three cars of which one is a luxury car. The other T she rents out to also does well. He was my kids T. In this area if your a T and have your own private practice and have the setup the way they do in that practice then the fees are minimal. There's no staff to pay either. They do their own work and filing. Although I could see it not being as productive in the city where the fees are higher.

[rainbow8]

These answers are all interesting. I actually didn't realize my thread on how many clients your T has, and this thread, would mostly be about the financial aspects! Everyone can relate to that, of course.

I was also trying to explain that the email exchange was real, and I wasn't imagining the love on both ends. It exists, and T wants me to hold onto that thought.

[bounceback]

That is what I was trying to point out to you Rainbow that if Therapists wanted more money they would have had a more lucrative career. I think most therapists that are in private practice may charge higher fees which really isn't a ton of money when you think about it considering what Lola Grace mentioned.

Anyway that is why I think if a therapist says they care about you they most likely do. You can't pay for that. Hope this helps clears up what I wrote. Sorry your thread got derailed.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by bounceback

That is what I was trying to point out to you Rainbow that if Therapists wanted more money they would have had a more lucrative career. I think most therapists that are in private practice may charge higher fees which really isn't a ton of money when you think about it considering what Lola Grace mentioned.

Anyway that is why I think if a therapist says they care about you they most likely do. You can't pay for that. Hope this helps clears up what I wrote. Sorry your thread got derailed.

Thank you. I didn't mean that my thread got derailed though! My title was about the money. Everything is good.

[LucyG]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Some people post statements like that but I think it's more about T's not caring, not about how much they earn. But if a T makes $100/hr. and sees 35 clients weekly, isn't that a lot of money?

It's not like all the money goes into their pocket unless they see you in their home and are a one man operation.

The normal business person who operates out of an office has rent, utilities, liability and other types of insurance to pay not to mention meeting payroll for the receptionist and bookkeeper. And a business person has a right to make a fair profit for the risk they take going into business--it's call an opportunity cost.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by LucyG

It's not like all the money goes into their pocket unless they see you in their home and are a one man operation.

The normal business person who operates out of an office has rent, utilities, liability and other types of insurance to pay not to mention meeting payroll for the receptionist and bookkeeper. And a business person has a right to make a fair profit for the risk they take going into business--it's call an opportunity cost.

My T shares a suite with about 6 other Ts. There is no receptionist or bookkeeper. I know she has to pay her share but not the same as her being solo. She does work from another office owned by someone else so she pays rent for that one too. So I guess she's not a millionaire after all.

[LucyG]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

My T shares a suite with about 6 other Ts. There is no receptionist or bookkeeper. I know she has to pay her share but not the same as her being solo. She does work from another office owned by someone else so she pays rent for that one too. So I guess she's not a millionaire after all.

There is a bookkeeper I can guarantee you that--I'm an accountant. What she does is hire the billing out to a bookkeeping service.

And you can bet she has a fat malpractice insurance premium she has to pay every few months as well.

It's easy for people who don't know anything about business to assume that they're being ripped off because the therapist charges $100 an hour. They don't understand that that $100 an hour has to cover the salaries of the support staff. And you have to have support staff or the therapist will be so busy doing her billing, typing up notes and the like that she can't see you.

If she's a good therapist, be grateful she's doing well enough to not go out of business or have to find another job. She's got advanced degrees and deserves to make a decent living.

[stopdog]

The two I see do their own billing and bookkeeping. They have no payroll except themselves. We have discussed such matters because I also am a sole practitioner who does not have staff and who does my own billing. I have an accountant for my taxes but that is all - and I don't pay her a salary.
They don't all run their businesses the same way. Some have staff and some do not (I would not see one who had any staff), some hire bookkeepers, some do it themselves, and so on. They have business expenses of sorts just like any other business owner -and that can take many different forms. I don't feel bad for them at any rate.

[Merecat]

Even working my from home there are costs for insurance, continued development, lighting, heating, printing and stationery etc. I honestly don't mind my T making a decent living either - I don't work for free and don't expect anyone else to and where I am T fees are reasonable. They may not be digging a ditch, but it's not easy work for someone to really listen to and connect with people who are hurting and need support.

I don't think being paid for what they do means they don't care any more than I think that doing it for free means they care more.

[Pennster]

My therapist doesn't have any staff either, though he has told me he has an accountant for his taxes and investments. There is no receptionist and he does his own billing, though as he takes no insurance and his clients just pay upfront this is very straightforward.

I think it's great he makes a good living - I want him to be happy in his job! Sure he has to pay expensive rent for his gorgeous office, but he seems well able to afford that and more. It just seems that as in everything else regarding therapy, the range of experience is really wide.