[darocka]

my therapist is 70 years old and occasionally has seemed to be falling asleep but lately it happens all the time. it seems to happen when i complain and go into my own world and sort of exclude him from the conversation. almost like a complaint monologue.
he seems to doze off for 4-5 seconds at a time. when i confront him on this he says he is not sleeping and just looking at the floor. most recently he said he has deep set eyes and it looks like he is sleeping but he isnt. i swear it seems like he is actually dozing off. to complicate this, i referred a friend to him a while back who fired him because he was sleeping! i really like the therapist and have found him helpful but the sleeping thing has been driving me nuts and its gotten worse and he says it seems worse because im more up against feelings of being alone and disconnected. ive become obsessed with it.
i dont understand how i am imagining this. i told him i am seeking consulation and may find another clinician to which he said go for it, youve tried other therapists before and left them for various reasons im not sure thats the answer he says.

im at a loss and frustrated. ive never accused a therapist of sleeping before. and ive never assumed someone was asleep when they werent.

[unaluna]

My t falls asleep during my "complaint monologue" too, thats a good name for it! I figure i need to take responsibility for it. Its more effort for me to say something that actually engages him. So either i make that effort, or i realize im being lazy too and i let him sleep. It gives me a chance to gather my thoughts. I need to make better use of my time in session.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by unaluna

My t falls asleep during my "complaint monologue" too, thats a good name for it! I figure i need to take responsibility for it. Its more effort for me to say something that actually engages him. So either i make that effort, or i realize im being lazy too and i let him sleep. It gives me a chance to gather my thoughts. I need to make better use of my time in session.

I would use the opportunity to tape a "Kick Me" sign to his back. Or bring a noisemaker and creep up on him and blow it in his ear.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I would use the opportunity to tape a "Kick Me" sign to his back. Or bring a noisemaker and creep up on him and blow it in his ear.

Im usually complaining about you! J/K

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I would use the opportunity to tape a "Kick Me" sign to his back. Or bring a noisemaker and creep up on him and blow it in his ear.

I was thinking the same thing! Draw a mustache on him or something.

Also, a simple thing would be to take a video from your phone and show it to him.

[unaluna]

Really? Hes always, what else, what else? I appreciate a little quiet time for a change. I would DIE if he snored!

A psychologist I know (not my T) once conceptualized the T who falls asleep in session as someone experiencing a similar phenomenon to what psychoanalyst Harry Stack Sullivan, who is known for the development of a school of "interpersonal psychotherapy", described for infants. Sullivan proposed the concept of "somnolent detachment", which would be a baby falling asleep in response to an anxiety-provoking situation or caregiver, in order to escape awareness of the situation and the stress. The guy I talked to (a T himself) said that therapists sometimes fall asleep in session the same way. I don't know... such a T would probably have a long way to grow up

But seriously... I met people with sleep disorders who do what the OP describes. They actually do fall asleep for short periods of time even during a conversation but learn to mask it reasonably well (or not) and would not admit because it's so bizarre. Many people develop sleep issues as they get older, for example sleep apnea, that can really interfere with daytime wakefulness and is not easy to control with willpower.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by unaluna

My t falls asleep during my "complaint monologue" too, thats a good name for it! I figure i need to take responsibility for it. Its more effort for me to say something that actually engages him. So either i make that effort, or i realize im being lazy too and i let him sleep. It gives me a chance to gather my thoughts. I need to make better use of my time in session.

I don't think it is the patient's job to keep the T entertained!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I was thinking the same thing! Draw a mustache on him or something.

Also, a simple thing would be to take a video from your phone and show it to him.

I do like a man to wear a mustache.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I do like a man to wear a mustache.

Because it tickles in all the right places?

OP, I would move on if the therapist wouldn't even admit he's sleeping. You're already looking around, that should have woken him up (wordplay not intended).

[WrkNPrgress]

A sleeping therapist is a BAD therapist.

It is not the client's job to be 'interesting' enough for the therapist. It is the therapist's job to maintain eye contact, stay alert and BE ATTENTIVE no matter what the hell the client is doing. Period.

I don't care if you go in there and read off your grocery list, your T better be up and paying attention and responding. They're only comments should be something along the lines of, "I can see you're well organized... tell me more about the organic bananas.... "

[WrkNPrgress]

I like the idea of taking some video of them though. If this therapist is actually denying their own behavior, video it. Let him snooze for a while.

Then complain to a supervisor, or the office, or something. They are wasting your time and they are insulting you.

[unaluna]

Seriously, i can HEAR that i am only talking to myself, that he may as well not be there. I only expect him to meet me halfway. If im only giving 10 percent, i disagree that he has to make up the missing 40 percent. Not after ten years, and im aware of it happening, and there is something i can do about it?

I said ENGAGE him, not entertain him. If i dont need him, what am i doing there?

I had a supervisor who fell asleep all of the damn time! I never said anything to him and later found out he had been fired from the centre because he was falling asleep all of the time. Anyway he was about 60 but had very bad diabetes. If it was my t I would be really annoyed. You sound like a patient and kind person and I really don't like the way your t is denying it, that would annoy me more than the falling asleep. I understand he is old but could he try to prevent it by engaging with you more and making a conscious effort to stay in contact with you when you start monologging

[junkDNA]

i would not tolerate that

[stopdog]

No - a sleeping therapist is bull ****. It is not the client's job to entertain or engage the therapist - quite the opposite in my opinion. You are paying for the therapist to sit there and be awake at the very minimum. They do not get paid to sleep.

I agree that it's not the client's job to entertain a therapist, but if he is helping more than the others before him, I'd keep him in a heartbeat if this was his major limitation. I do think it could be a health problem that he is unaware of.

However, so frustrating he turns it back on you. Sounds a bit like my therapist. But if he is denying it, I would feel gaslighted, so it would be very triggering to me if he didn't admit it. Maybe he is sleeping some times but not other times when he is starting to fall asleep? It must feel vindicating that the other client had a similar experience.

he says it seems worse because im more up against feelings of being alone and disconnected.

Even though he is the one doing something, there is still truth in this that you could learn a lot about yourself from. If you can tolerate it. This gets into some deep stuff, so if you get past the anger, which is good to work through to, this could turn into something helpful to you.

When you get to a certain point of attachment, if you get there (if you want that or are ok with it), someone's flaws can be endearing. Have you ever experienced that?

I know the dialogue you are talking about it. I like the term you coined for this. I've done it a couple of times, though stopped myself before continuing, telling my therapist I worried I was boring him. To which he said, I'm not there to entertain him...I still hated doing it, but felt it necessary a couple of times in the past. The reason I hated it when I did it, is because my mother did it all the time and I knew what it felt like being on the receiving end. And even knowing that, I didn't stop myself because-it's ok to not be at your best in therapy. Can't think of anything more therapeutic than someone accepting you when you are at your worst. And that acceptance and compassion can be reciprocated to a therapist, someday, if desired, like one who is sleeping.

Just my thoughts.

Originally Posted by darocka

my therapist is 70 years old and occasionally has seemed to be falling asleep but lately it happens all the time. it seems to happen when i complain and go into my own world and sort of exclude him from the conversation. almost like a complaint monologue.
he seems to doze off for 4-5 seconds at a time. when i confront him on this he says he is not sleeping and just looking at the floor. most recently he said he has deep set eyes and it looks like he is sleeping but he isnt. i swear it seems like he is actually dozing off. to complicate this, i referred a friend to him a while back who fired him because he was sleeping! i really like the therapist and have found him helpful but the sleeping thing has been driving me nuts and its gotten worse and he says it seems worse because im more up against feelings of being alone and disconnected. ive become obsessed with it.
i dont understand how i am imagining this. i told him i am seeking consulation and may find another clinician to which he said go for it, youve tried other therapists before and left them for various reasons im not sure thats the answer he says.

im at a loss and frustrated. ive never accused a therapist of sleeping before. and ive never assumed someone was asleep when they werent.

I've never heard this before, so I was so pleased to read this.

I have a lot of body memories come up in therapy, which usually seem pre-verbal. One time while talking with T, back when all the infant feelings surfaced, I suddenly got very sleepy and my eyes started closing and I started falling asleep but had no control of it. After a little bit of being shocked at my inability to control it, I started laughing because it was so strange, but harmless and amusing at the same time, to have it take you over like a wave; a spell.

My therapist was surprised too. Never knew what could have caused it until now.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

A psychologist I know (not my T) once conceptualized the T who falls asleep in session as someone experiencing a similar phenomenon to what psychoanalyst Harry Stack Sullivan, who is known for the development of a school of "interpersonal psychotherapy", described for infants. Sullivan proposed the concept of "somnolent detachment", which would be a baby falling asleep in response to an anxiety-provoking situation or caregiver, in order to escape awareness of the situation and the stress. The guy I talked to (a T himself) said that therapists sometimes fall asleep in session the same way. I don't know... such a T would probably have a long way to grow up

But seriously... I met people with sleep disorders who do what the OP describes. They actually do fall asleep for short periods of time even during a conversation but learn to mask it reasonably well (or not) and would not admit because it's so bizarre. Many people develop sleep issues as they get older, for example sleep apnea, that can really interfere with daytime wakefulness and is not easy to control with willpower.

[growlycat]

Darocka I sent you a message

I'm not sure if i saw your distress when i first responded as i missed that you said you felt obsessed.

He could be hiding his eyes as part of being a blank slate, i hate to say it but i once had a therapist hide his eyes. It can get very scary, and yes, you'd only be in the room alone because it has the effect of mirroring yourself back to you. No matter what your issues are.

If that is the case, maybe he isnt sleeping. I actually do think he is doing it purporsely, now that i reread how it makes you feel...