[Wounded Soul 74]

*Possible Trigger*
This post could be controversial and might offend some people.

I don't post alot on the forums, I'm mostly a lurker and it seems there's alot of posts from people who feel they've been harmed in therapy and emotionally abused by the very people they went to for help, I guess I find it helpful because of my own experience and it left me feeling very hopeless, invalidated, and to be honest almost suicidal. I understand that many here feel that therapy has helped them and they've been fortunate enough to find a caring and compassionate therapist who didn't do further damage or complicate the issues that brought them to therapy in the first place. But there are a lot of other people who are being severely harmed especially when it comes to attachment issues. My harmful experience was at a community mental health clinic, I don’t want to go into all the details and I did post about it a couple years ago under a different user name and then I deleted that account because of fear it would be recognizable. In fact my experience got even worse after that incident and I have no desire to return to mental health services again. I’m on my own and still dealing with the problems that initially brought me to therapy but also left to deal with the hurt and shame I feel as a result of everything that happened.

Ultimately I think the core issue with the MH System and what I experienced as well as so many others is the stigma from the very people that are supposed to be supportive. It can make things even worse in some ways if you’re male, I’m not saying that women aren’t harmed too and of course they are but the problem with being male, which I am, is that they will make assumptions or have preconceived notions about you based on these mental health labels they put on you.

I’m curious if many other’s here have felt that they were being stigmatized or made to feel less human or even dangerous when you’re not. Believe me I wouldn’t hurt a fly and I’ve never been dangerous, violent, or stalked people but I definitely felt treated that way at times and I think because of my PTSD it made the stigma even worse. Victim blaming is ********!
I want to do something constructive with my hurt and anger, I’ve thought about starting a blog on what I see as major problems in the MH system but I don’t think I’m a very good writer, maybe I’ll try it anyway, it could be “therapeutic”.

I copied the following text from an Australian study that was done in 2011 on stigma from mental health professionals towards their clients. Maybe it can give some other people a little validation about their own experiences.

“Many consumers are subjected to stigmatizing attitudes from various health professionals. For example, across diagnostic categories, almost 29% of consumers reported that their treating health professional had shunned them. These figures rose to over 54% and 57% for consumers with post-traumatic stress disorder and borderline personality disorder respectively. Similarly, over 44% of consumers agreed that health professionals treating them for a physical disorder behaved differently when they discovered their history of a mental illness.

This level of stigma is dangerous and unacceptable. The time has come to develop and deliver evidence-based mental illness destigmatisation programs in medical and other health care settings to ensure that consumers can be confident that they will be treated within the medical system with the respect they deserve.

When this stigma is received from a health professional providing mental health services the impact is likely to impede recovery and result in poor outcomes for the individual.

The impact of stigma is two-fold and includes public stigma and self-stigma. Public stigma is how the general population reacts to people with a mental illness; while self-stigma refers to the prejudice, negative feelings and negative impact that discrimination has on a person with a mental illness. Stigma impedes recovery by negatively affecting social status, self-esteem and social networks. This can result in poor outcomes for the individual, including issues such as unemployment, isolation, delayed treatment seeking and hospitalization. These impediments are likely to lead to feelings of social isolation and exclusion for a person with a mental illness. Contending with this on top of a mental illness is going to affect their self-esteem and level of distress, making recovery all the more difficult. When a person is being stigmatised by their health professional, these feelings are likely to be compounded, making treatment and recovery unlikely.

Very little research has been conducted on the attitudes of professionals providing care to patients and clients with a mental illness.

Mental health professionals often serve as role models and opinion leaders within the mental health sector, and they are the people consumers tend to see when they are at their most vulnerable and whom they rely on for help, understanding and support. In addition, many mental health professionals are educators whose attitudes and behaviors influence future, professionals. Therefore, how people with a mental illness view the various mental health professions, and vice versa, can have serious consequences for treatment and quality of life for these people.

Stigma is a major barrier to recovery for people with mental health problems, their families and those working in the field of mental health. Stigma acts as a ‘social disability’ - often contributing to at least the same amount of, if not more, stress than the original mental health issue.
In its ground-breaking report, Not for Service, the Mental Health Council of Australia (2005) reported that accounts of highly negative, dismissive and stigmatising remarks by health staff towards persons with mental illness were still very common. In addition, family members often felt discounted or ignored by health workers.

A recurring complaint among participants in one survey on mental health consumers’ experience of stigma was that consumers felt that doctors and psychologists treated them as less competent and they were discouraged from setting high goals. In the same survey, respondents also gave examples of disparaging comments made by mental health caregivers. One respondent reported that staff in psychiatric facilities often spoke about patients with disrespect and sometimes mocked them. One comment from a respondent, about her experience in medical school, echoed many similar statements made by mental health consumers:

The treatment of psych patients in all rotations was awful. They would laugh at them, poke fun at them on rounds, disbelieve any physical complaint they had.

One UK report (Salter & Byrne 2002) highlighted the need for mental health professions to tackle stigma. It found that in spite of the way stigma affects the work of psychiatrists, the prevailing attitude of psychiatry towards stigma seems to be ‘one of inertia and resignation’. According to this report, none of the main texts of psychiatry mention stigma and, with only a few notable exceptions, psychiatrists have taken a low profile in local and national debate about mental health issues. Several years after this research was conducted, people with mental illness in the UK still report encountering negative attitudes from mental health professionals. People experiencing mental illness often feel patronized, punished or humiliated and many rate mental health professionals as one of the groups that stigmatizes them the most. “

I underlined the last part because that has been my experience. It's ridiculous that a profession that's supposed to be about healing, recovery, and safety harms so many people and the lack of self reflection and accountability is unbelievable.

[satsuma]

Here in the U.K. stigma around mental health issues has definitely been a big problem. I think things are starting to change now as there have a lot of publicity campaigns around these things, and lot of celebrities and people in the public eye encouraging everyone to be more open around mental health issues. And also more awareness than in the past. But it's definitely still a problem.
I'm sorry you suffered because of this kind of stigma. It's horrible that it made things even more difficult than they already are if you have a mental health problem.
I have recently disclosed my mental health issues when dealing with other healthcare professionals, and they have been very respectful towards me. So I have to say there are some GPs, consultants and nurses in my experience who are educated and respectful when it comes to mental health. I realise I have been fortunate. The idea of healthcare professionals mocking people and dismissing their physical health complaints is just horrible. IMO anyone who does that should lose their job because they shouldn't be working with vulnerable people (probably they would be suited to a job that didn't involve much working with people at all!) I know it does happen in this country too, unfortunately, there was a documentary on TV recently about a mental health hospital that didn't take physical health issues of patients seriously. I won't put all of what was in it because it could be triggering.

[thesnowqueen]

I think it's been shown that there is gender bias in the industry - for instance women are much more likely to be diagnosed as borderline PD than men. I think it's extremely likely that there is a tendency to regard men as violent (or potentially so) than women. I'm sorry your experiences have been so negative. My appraisal of humanity in general is that callous-ness and willful ignorance are the rule rather than the exception. One would hope that this would be different in various population groups but this this is not my experience. Finding professionals that are better than the norm is an expensive and trying process that most people do not have the resources for.

[here today]

Well said, Wounded Soul. It IS hard to believe that reality is like this, so far from the ideals that the profession "professes". But it's been my experience, too.

[BudFox]

Have a few thoughts:

- I am male also. After damaging therapy one therapist cautioned me that trying to initiate contact with the prior therapist could cross over into "stalking" behavior. A couple people on this forum insinuated the same. This used to bother me. Now I laugh, because I can deconstruct these pathetic manipulations. I was trying to stand up for myself, which was the only therapeutic part of the whole mess. This is not tolerated. Mustn't ask too many questions or complain too insistently about harm. Compliance is required.

- The defensiveness and victim blaming is a reflexive response to anything that threatens to expose the sketchy paradigm. Try to poke holes in it, you will be attacked.

- I've found much of the experience of psychotherapy to be implicitly pathologizing and stigmatizing. Nothing explicit need be said. It's transmitted in attitudes, demeanor, language, assumptions. And in the contrived hierarchy that is imposed on "patients" and "clients".

- In one case therapy was profoundly disempowering and damaging. For sure early life attachment stress or trauma was involved, but also other factors. I paid to have a toxic and subtly abusive relationship. The responses from follow up therapists were mostly deceitful and dishonest.

- "I underlined the last part because that has been my experience. It's ridiculous that a profession that's supposed to be about healing, recovery, and safety harms so many people and the lack of self reflection and accountability is unbelievable." Yes, for sure. I consider it a very dirty business.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Wounded Soul 74

*Possible Trigger*
This post could be controversial and might offend some people.

. . .
I want to do something constructive with my hurt and anger, I’ve thought about starting a blog on what I see as major problems in the MH system but I don’t think I’m a very good writer, maybe I’ll try it anyway, it could be “therapeutic”.

. . .

I think your post here was very well-written. There are other "bad therapy" blogs out there but no one website with links to them all, or any with suggestions about how to change things. I'm still dealing with MH issues, too, which limits my ability to get things done, but PM me if you like, maybe we could do something together?

[Wounded Soul 74]

I have a number a websites bookmarked on therapy abuse and I've been educating myself on how and why I was feeling the way I was. The entire reason I had gone to therapy in the first place was to get help with agoraphobia, depression, and PTSD. I've come to realize they were actually making me feel worse by stigmatizing attitudes, judgments, and marginalization and then in turn I was internalizing this towards myself. You get that feeling you're "bad" or undesirable and then if I brought these feelings up, instead of validating that or taking responsibility for their part in it, they would see that as "symptoms" of my mental illness. I'm not saying that I don't sometimes deflect my own low self esteem on to others but the abuse I was receiving was blatant.

- I am male also. After damaging therapy one therapist cautioned me that trying to initiate contact with the prior therapist could cross over into "stalking" behavior. A couple people on this forum insinuated the same. This used to bother me. Now I laugh, because I can deconstruct these pathetic manipulations. I was trying to stand up for myself, which was the only therapeutic part of the whole mess. This is not tolerated. Mustn't ask too many questions or complain too insistently about harm. Compliance is required.

Because they already have a preconceived notion about you and you form an emotional connection with the person especially if there of the opposite sex and you're very lonely and hurting it's like they see this as dangerous when you're not at all. For me what made it so much worse was I found out she was discussing my issues behind my back and I felt violated my confidentiality. The worst was after the last session when she was with another staff member giggling at me behind my back, it felt horrible. In case anyone gets the wrong idea I never tried to cross boundaries I wasn't supposed to or ever initiated any contact outside of the therapy. I guess since I wanted more as a friend it was seen by her as dangerous or that I was borderline or something like that. I don't run around getting attached to every person I run into but when you've shared alot of personal details about yourself with this person and acts so kind it's hard not develop those feelings when you feel so alone and are hurting, then you find out this person wasn't who you thought they were.

I think your post here was very well-written. There are other "bad therapy" blogs out there but no one website with links to them all, or any with suggestions about how to change things. I'm still dealing with MH issues, too, which limits my ability to get things done, but PM me if you like, maybe we could do something together?

That sounds like a good idea. I'll send you a pm soon.

[here today]

So sorry this happened to you. I'm female but non-traditional, although I may look like it on the outside. Have you looked into the topic of "relational aggression"? It's what females tend to do more often than direct confrontation. I prefer direct, explicit confrontation, but that makes me an oddball, a misfit, an outcast in some circles of women.

I think relational aggression is just as hurtful, if not more so, than a direct attack, because it's so hard to see sometimes. Yet for women, and some men, who dislike conflict and confrontation it seems to be the method of choice. And I guess if that T was not very well-trained or very mature or something, and felt threatened by you, then that's what she did to "gain" an upper hand. Understandable by this old lady, perhaps, but horrifying in its effect on you. I can definitely understand that, too, and since you were the client it seems very clear that YOUR distress should be the focus, not hers. Unfortunately, it sounds as if she couldn't do that.

Also, unfortunately, the MH profession seems to me to be dominated currently by females with this penchant for conflict avoidance. Or at least it is very prevalent and I was certainly clueless that perhaps I needed to look for someone with a different orientation. I was so used to force fitting myself outwardly into the mold approved of by female authorities and rule-makers.

Well, I've learned something, at least, in my 50 years of therapy on and off. Even people with MH issues may learn things over the course of living and their life experiences. Too bad, as I've said on other threads, that the profession can't learn very well from it's members' life experiences, or maybe it's just that the T's just stay stuck in their preconceived notions and don't learn from us at all.

And that ^^ is an example of a somewhat relationally aggressive comment, because my regular direct, respectful comments and conflicts are not heard by the profession. In my experience they tend to like and respond to feelings, not thoughts. Sure, feelings have their place in life, but thoughts do, too.

[ruh roh]

I think the mental health system is a stigma perpetuating machine. The worst are mh workers and staff in clinical settings. It's like they stop seeing people as individuals and just see them as a collection of behaviors. They create an emotionally toxic environment without even seeing what they are doing.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Wounded Soul 74

*Possible Trigger*
This post could be controversial and might offend some people.

I’m curious if many other’s here have felt that they were being stigmatized or made to feel less human or even dangerous when you’re not.

[/FONT]

thanks for starting this conversation WS74.

you are not alone. i too have felt stigmatized, not only from the professionals who were claiming to be helping and supporting me, looking out for my 'best interest', but also from those in society who generally are fearful, misinformed, and quite possibly just plain ignorant.

i don't feel that your post should require a 'trigger warning' because i reckon that this is a very honest conversation that should be being discussed, especially on a public forum where people are specifically talking about MH issues and the very professionals who claim to be the ones dedicated to helping solve those MH issues. perhaps those who may find this conversation controversial or offending should really be open to exploring their own underlying biases and fears before they write off what you have to share just because you tagged it with a trigger warning.

This is an interesting project in the U.K.

Mental health professionals | Time To Change

[here today]

Yes it is interesting. Thanks.

[Wounded Soul 74]

i don't feel that your post should require a 'trigger warning' because i reckon that this is a very honest conversation that should be being discussed, especially on a public forum where people are specifically talking about MH issues and the very professionals who claim to be the ones dedicated to helping solve those MH issues. perhaps those who may find this conversation controversial or offending should really be open to exploring their own underlying biases and fears before they write off what you have to share just because you tagged it with a trigger warning.

I was just concerned I might sow some doubts in other people's minds about their therapy and how they see the mental health system but at the same time you're right, it is a very important issue, far too many people are getting hurt.

[BudFox]

If people need to be shielded from honest accounts of damaging therapy, that implies the risks are not being discussed with clients (no informed consent) and that therapy is being carried out in some sort of reality-free bubble. And then those who've endured harm in therapy have to use trigger warnings and euphemisms. Sounds like a problem.