Hugs in therapy - only for the clients sake? Therapist doesn´t need our hugs.

On the other hand...through the therapy relationship, i felt loved for the first time in my life.

It was certainly the therapist's words and actions that led to those feelings. He wasn't merely channeling childhood feelings, bringing them to the surface because I have no memory of feeling loved, cared for, or even like I deserved to exist in my childhood. That was part of our work. We made that. We made that positive creation. It was new. It did not exist before our work.

Certainly it can go the other way, a therapist's words and actions can lead to negative feelings.

BudFox,I read all of your responses through various threads and try very hard to see your point of view, and that is not me being sarcastic. Everyone has their own opinion, and everyones' feelings are completely valid, as well as their own experiences. What I bolded above, comes off as "Well, WHY wouldn't you see what OP said as prostitution?!" Whereas, I definitely would never have made that jump. When I read her thoughts, I am going to agree with Ruhroh that I quoted below.

It seems like from what Sarah has posted, she feels similiarly in other relationships outside of therapy, that these sort of feelings aren't ONLY in therapy. I actually had to convince my T for the first few months that my intense anxiety wasn't something I experienced daily in my "real life." It was mostly therapy-based, because I dislike talking about emotions and I prefer to think of myself as a robot

I have always had the fear that therapists don't truly care and they are only doing it for the money. It is a dark place for my mind to go. If you saw my other thread you would read that my stepdad growing up would deride my therapy as emotional prostitution or a paid friend. Long term t was genuinely furious at my family for saying these things especially when I was still a minor. He told my mom that it is damaging to the theraputic relationship. (Not saying that Budfox is doing this, it just reflects my history with the terms).

Long term t always told me that I pay for his time and expertise. His love is given out as he chooses. I prefer to see it that way. Even with Kashi I notice that he seems to dread certain clients and struggles to like them (vague comments nothing too specific). So I'd like to think he genuinely likes me.

The hugs should be for the client only. I suspect Kashi enjoys it too. The fact that he initiates may turn out to be problematic. In theory I think the client should be the one to ask but I am aware that I am breaking my own rule. It could turn out to be a bad idea but in the moment it feels good.

Btw I told Kashi about how family used to call my t's emotional prostitutes. He thought it was hilarious. He said he wants a t shirt. I think moments later he realized I was telling him something that hurt me.

I guess I don't see them as having expertise in anything. I pay for time and the room. So rent basically. I am willing to do it, but the therapist has done nothing that needs expertise in any way that I have seen.
Just because something is damaging to the so called therapeutic relationship does not make that thing untrue. I mean - I am not saying anyone's individual therapist cares or does not care - I would not know. For me, I don't have any reason for a therapist to care particularly. But something can be both true and damaging. They are not mutually exclusive. If the therapist dreads seeing me, it is not my problem (I would doubt it more because I am not interesting enough to be dread worthy either) - the woman is selling space and time and could choose not to sell to me just as I could choose to buy from someone else. But I don't see therapists as particularly interesting or anything like that - to me-they are not real.

The two are not mutually exclusive. In my long term t's case I took his outrage to indicate that he really does care and is offended that someone would say otherwise. Someone could argue that his outrage was over the possibility of an interrupted money stream. I believe that in twenty years of seeing him there has been plenty of evidence that he cares. Lots of things that he did that were above and beyond.

I know you do not think they have skill or expertise but then again you do not let them speak. Talking is the main tool in therapy. Listening without much speaking is more akin to religious confession than therapy. They can't use thier tools if they can't talk. I'm not questioning how you do therapy, just pointing out that they are useless without thier skills.

I could see outrage for several reasons - not just the two you mention. I am not saying you should not believe the therapist cares - believing could be useful and it could be true. I more don't see why it matters one way or the other (I don't expect anyone to explain it - just that I truly do not understand all the whoohoo about it).

I did not see expertise even when I let them talk. The first one I ever saw talked -but no expertise there either. When I went to confession as a child - the priest talked -so I don't see how I use therapy as akin to confession. But I do have a great aversion to and dislike of religion - even more than I do to therapy

I can't imagine spending money on something I have such little respect and loathing for. I would rather get a dog or a brick and save a boatload of money. I personally pay for their educated advice otherwise I have much better things to spend my money on...never mind have 2 therapists.

I never submitted my response to the original post. (I like how PC keeps it unless you erase it or post it) anyway here is what I wrote but failed to post awhile back when the thread first opened:

My t offers hugs sometimes just within the past year or so - she seems to sense when I need one before I ask. One time (only once) - when I said thank you, that helped... she replied "it helped me, too." It must have been a difficult session for her, as well. Anyway my t is fond of saying that she brings her "whole self" to the therapy relationship. But because the relationship is an unnatural one in the first place, I'm not sure how she could. Maybe she can. I don't know. But as convoluted as it is, overall it has been very healing for me, so I'm going with that. And that's all I have to say about that for the moment.

I have 3 dogs and two cats.(and as an example of one of the reasons why two interest me - the first urges me to get more pets and the second is horrified I have 5 - I would probably try having 3 of those people if I had found another I thought I could abide enough to add into the mix).
It is a sort of hobby. We all spend money on things others don't understand.

I don't know, Bud. I can't know how my therapist feels, and she is the only one I could even try to make a guess about. She's helped me a lot, so if she feels disgrace over getting paid for that, I would be bothered.

That said, I have seen others who should feel ashamed for having taken my money, but that's a separate issue and has more to do with who they were as people/professionals. But since the OP isn't paying this counselor, I'm not sure how any of this applies. I guess I tend to think that we bring our feelings about ourselves to therapy where they can be made worse, and (if the therapist isn't horrible) eventually worked through.

To me it´s not so much about payment or not payment, it´s the fact that the hug can´t be mutual as my counselor is in a professional role and I´m in a private role.

I´ll always be the dependent one, at least emotionally, and even if my counselor hugs me back it won´t be as comforting as if she gave me a spontaneous hug.

Degrading situation happens when I try to give her a hug and she is about to turn round to take a seat or when I for example wait for her to greet her with a hug. That doesn´t mean she dislikes the hug, it´s the lack of mutual initiative, that she sometimes hugs me first and sometimes I hug her first. That doesn´t happen and by that perhaps it´s better to just smile and say "hello" and just go inside the room and take a seat.

I think what it boils down to is that she's your therapist. She won't give you a hug like a friend or a family member would because she's none of those things. I think you want her to be something she can't and never will be. My therapist and I shake hands at the beginning and at the end of the session. I'm not under the impression that she's doing this because she *likes* to shake my hand, she's doing it because that's a professional greeting. I don't understand why everything has to be SO serious and SO meaningful to you. When I went to the bakery today to buy some croissants, my baker wished me a "Happy Easter". Did she actually mean it? Does it matter? No. It's just what people say, it's the polite thing to say. That's what a big part of life is about: polite interactions with people you don't really care about. I suspect your therapist hugs you for the same reason: a polite thing to do. And that's ok. You can find the real meaningful relationships *outside* of therapy. But that means making an effort to meet people. And yes that's hard. But not impossible. Take care.

Thanks. I don´t want her to be my friend, I know she can´t be as she´s my counselor but there are a lot of different ways of conducting therapy. A hug doesn´t always have to be one-sided, that is the client gives the hug first, it can as well be the therapist who sometimes gives the hug first.

There´s a huge difference between seeing a baker for a few minutes and a therapist, of course you expect more closeness from a counselor than a baker, at least I do. You don´t share deeply personal stuff with your baker, not in general at least. With a baker, a hairdresser or such, I don´t expect such a meeting to be especially meaningful, nor serious.

To want a hug from a therapist and finding that important doesn´t imply that you´re incapable of looking for deep relationships in real life, nor that you don´t put effort in finding such relationships.

Many people use a therapist for their the thirty in dealing with life issues. Many spend a lot of time outside of therapy figuring out how to help struggling clients, continuing education, etc. Sure some want the therapists to do nothing besides a it there and listen and pretend to care while not saying a word. I could hire anybody in any professional and say sit there and shut up. That would not be how they normally perform their job nor does it mean they do nothing but sit there

There is a difference between wanting the therapist to be more than they are, and expecting it. Therapy relationships have built-in constraints that make some people absolutely miserable and worse than before. Expressing dissatisfaction with that is not the same as naively expecting the constraints to be removed.

Honestly I don't understand what you want. You say you don't want her to be your friend but at the same time you want that hug to be super meaningful to her. If your counsellor was initiating the hug, I'm pretty sure you'd find a way to be upset with her about something else. It seems like you want to find flaws with your therapists in general, you pick the smallest, most random details and turn them into huge things. Sorry, I wasn't comparing a baker to a therapist. I was simply using this example to illustrate that people (unless they're family or friends) do polite things all the time that aren't super meaningful to them. Since your counsellor isn't family or a friend, she's hugging you out of politeness. Which is fine. You could just enjoy that hug for what it is. But you want that hug to be more. That's unrealistic imo. I'm also not saying that you're incapable of looking for deep relationships, quite the contrary. You've said that you're lonely. Looking for a deep meaning in a therapy setting isn't a good idea in my opinion. It's only outside of therapy that you will find meaningful relationships. And I was simply saying that it's hard to find those but it's not impossible.

Thanks. To me there´s no logic between constraints like when the client always is the one who initiate a hug, wishes a nice weekend or such and the T or counselor stays very neutral. At the same time I´m supposed to act as if the T was a very close person to me and share very private details about my life.

If the T is quite cold, can´t be spontaneous in saying something nice at the end of a session or such, that just makes me want to shut down and just talk about shallow or non important things.

To me a therapeutic relationship is "give and take" as well even if it´s more restricted and I´m much more pro the newer forms of therapy which allows the T to use more of him- or herself and create a warmer setting for therapy.

I find it only possible to use the woman (or the second one) because she is not real to me. For me, it would not work at all if either of us acted like she was close to me or if there was anything mutual or anything but Other. I choose to pay those who don't bother trying to pretend to care - or at least those who will stop it when I tell them to do so.
Nothing in their literature, from any I have sued, or hired, have ever shown me or explained how they have expertise in anything beyond sitting there.
I do believe some, if not most, of them like/need the idea that clients are attached to them and want the therapist to care, hug etc. I think it strokes their egos. So in that sense, I think it can be said that some do need their client's hugs and admiration etc.

It's definitely not mutual, in my opinion. They don't "need" a hug. They are service providers that we hired for mental health treatment. If one stands back and views it objectively...for ethical Ts...they care about their clients but it's business. They work for us. We help pay their house payment, T's clients. In exchange they provide therapy sessions with their boundary policies. It's a unique experience but it's business for them.

My T gladly hugs me if I ask. But only if I ask. Good hugs but for my benefit...not hers. It's fine for me. I don't want personal because then it's no longer therapy, IMO. =]