What does the therapist get out of the "therapeutic relationship"?

By which I don't mean "they get paid" or "the satisfaction of a job well done." I think I mean more what do they think the experience of the therapeutic relationship should be for them?

I'm asking because when I asked CW at our last session to please try to remember something (a key fact about me) that would upset me if she did forget it, as she just had, she gave me a spiel about how trying to fulfill that request made her feel "boxed in," "wasn't therapeutic," and would damage our therapeutic relationship. (Note: I did not ask her to promise or swear by a stack of Bibles or anything like that.)

(I imagine this would be the real-life relationship equivalent of if you, say, asked your partner not to lick their fingers but use a napkin after eating something greasy. Really no skin off their nose, plus something they might want to do anyway. And then they tell you you're inhibiting them.)

"Boxed in" is a complaint suited to a totally different kind of relationship to me, just as are comments like "I feel like I am walking on eggshells around you" (which I have also heard from them and which I find really offensive because it is typically how therapists describe abusive relationships).

So, seriously. What do they think they should be getting out of their relationships with their clients? Do they think the therapeutic relationship is about them and their needs? Because I sometimes get the sense they do, both the ones I see in real life and read about on here, particularly those with boundary issues.

No idea what mine gets out of it, but she keeps saying she feels hurt when patients say she doesn't care, or say she only cares because it's her job.

I identify with those other patients because I'm definitely one of them who say that. She has said the connection is two way and that she gets something out of the therapeutic relationship with me (and others of course, just in case I think I'm special lol. Ohh everyone is special and unique and the relationship differs with each client in their own ways blah) but never says WHAT despite how I ask.

She has wrote on social media and I notice that her "worst day of my life" tends to be when more than one patient says she doesn't care when she feels she's been "running around, doing so much for them".

Kinda makes me want to laugh bitterly because I've a dear friend working in community mental health and his worst days involve active threats to his life on a regular basis, plus retraumatisation of himself and T is upset over shouted words that she doesn't care lol.

I think she gets some kind of boost to feeling she's kind, patient, nurturing...something.

I think they very often get to be adored and admired and looked up to and given credit for all sorts of **** which they cannot possibly have done/been responsible for = which I think is very seductive.

I want the woman to be careful around me. I don't think I would care if the woman complained about being boxed in - I would probably say "good" and then tell her it is not about her.

What do you want from your t?

It used to drive me nuts that my t would STOP and explain the meaning of any word over 2 syllables. I was like, dude, my iq is probably higher than yours, dont you remember who i am from week to week? I took it very personally. Probably for a lot of reasons.

How do you feeeeeel about her boxed in response? My t never promised to stop mansplaining. I just kept objecting and he eventually stopped. I think its more important for them to stay in the moment, so i tend to give them years to learn details.

Feeling...needed? Helpful? As if they've made a difference?

Which comes in degrees, I'm sure. It doesn't have to be pathological. I like it when a student manages to learn something. It's rewarding to see other human beings go from frustrated to confident, and flattering to feel as though you've facilitated that.

I think the "boxed in" comment was odd. I agree it feels like it belongs in a different sort of relationship. For as terrible as Mr. BeaversDon'tEatFish is, at least I don't have to hear about his feelings.

Yeah. I think that's part of what I was trying to say. If the relationship is what they seem to say it is...their feelings should not be a verbalized part of it.

Oh, on the student success, I understand that...but the thing is, that doesn't seem to require the kind of relationship therapists go on about. That's more like satisfaction in doing your job well.

For them to do their job? For them to do no harm? For them to actually be skilled at the stuff they claim to be good at, like empathy and communication and putting themselves in someone else's place?

But apparently they all just want roles in the next season of "Gypsy."

Kashi was at least honest to me about his profession. He told me that people who enter the field who don't think they are doing it partly to satisfy some narcissistic need are fooling themselves. That was part of our discussion on boundaries and why they are important. Which is weird because his are loose but if I voiced a problem I'd bet he'd tighten it up.

I do sense that he likes to be depended on, liked, loved even. He seems to fall into that trap yet he is vaguely aware of it.

I don't understand what cactus woman's issue is. It doesn't seem like you are asking anything unreasonable. She seems too freaked out by your past with your other t. Wonder what she has to hide?

Some of them get a referral for a hook-up.

Yes; DBC said something similar. I admired her honesty but then I realized she didn't actually exhibit much self-awareness of her own motives in doing or saying things.

CW has had a (dismissed) complaint made against her in the past. (Googling her name and reviews turns up the minutes of her licensing board's hearing.). I don't know what the complaint was about, but I can only assume that's part of her reaction. I may go back and ask her when I get back to town next month.

I met with my counselor tonight. I had too much to wrap my brain around and resorted to writing topics on cards.

He liked the idea and told me he did.

He let me walk through what I've been trying to sort out. He was there and listening and that was a comfort to me.

What does he get from me?

Maybe because he works with me and is open to what I'm walking through, he gets the experience of working with someone else who is out of the box.

He hears me and responds to what is going on with me.

In some way, maybe, he is gaining knowledge in how to work with someone else who is like me.

Maybe?

I believe that they inherently get more than the client in satisfying relationships. Of course, if it's not a good relationship they don't get that much, lots of self doubt and probably blame the client for being difficult or resistant. I do believe that ts go into this profession with a good heart, they want to help others but this needs to be really worked on in there own therapy as a lot of ts unconsciously are trying to heal themselves. This could be potentially dangerous to vulnerable clients or clients with similar issues to the t. Counterference issues could limit the relationship and therapy could become all about the therapist. Jung calls these kind of therapists 'Wounded Healers'.
I am guessing your t is saying she is feeling boxed in because she is trying to share with you how she interprets that you are having an impact on those around you. I also guess that you put her on the spot and she didn't know the answer or was afraid of getting it wrong, instead of being authentic and admitting that she went down the road of blaming you AT.
What I get from my relationships from clients is that I like helping other people to find a way to be happy or to accept who they really are and to find a way to live with that. I also think that the therapeutic relationship is very different to any other relationship, there is a huge power imbalance and therapists can play on this and use it to their advantage. I think that by saying someone feels they are walking on eggshells around somebody is more about them, perhaps she is probing you or proding you unnecessarily. This could also be a negative transference of theres being projected onto you.
Does "walking on eggshells" feel like a helpful statement to you? To me it would be damaging and judgemental and I would not see any positive to saying it without giving me a damn good reason, I would be wondering what the t is saying to invoke such a strong reaction in the client.

I think my t likes solving puzzles. I think she has a neatly shelved mental filing cabinet of strategies and she likes to sift through to find the perfect one for the situation. She's like an immune system finding the right antibody for each antigen.
She solves the puzzle and calm is restored. She sits back, satisfied until the next time.

Maltsberger and Buie write about the therapists three narcissistic snares: to know all, to heal all and to love all.

Specifically, she forgot I couldn't have children, which we had already discussed twice was a source of serious pain to me. She knew she forgot. I don't think my asking her to try and remember that is putting her on the spot - I think it is expecting her to have some interest in doing her job, and I think when someone says they feel "boxed in" by that, they are in the wrong job.

Nope, I don't like walking on eggshells comments - I see it as manipulative.

Eta: I guess I can see how she felt put on the spot, but one thing I have learned from teaching is that when you make a mistake you fix it, make sure a student's grade didn't suffer or something like that, apologize if necessary, and then you try not to do it again.

That is a pretty serious thing to forget. i wouldn't be very forgiving of that.

That is a huge mistake and an error on her part. I don't think you intended to put her in the spot but because she forgot such a huge important part of your story she felt put in the spot.
Did she try and repair this rupture at all? To me that would be unforgivable and I would be too hurt to work through it.

I think a lot of therapists get into the profession because they want to be looked up to, they like the fact that they seem "perfect" to a lot of their clients (look at the many threads on this forum about "my T's life is perfect"). They appear to have their **** together and that must feel good to them. Actually I pointed that out to my T, that therapists' motives in entering the profession were not exactly altruistic and she completely dismissed it by saying "well, only the bad therapists do that". I mean, she's a psychoanalyst and she's had a psychoanalysis. I assume this takes some years, not just a few months. So she's had a lot of time to reflect on her behaviour, to become self-aware. And yet as soon as I pointed out that therapists may not be saints, she got slightly defensive. In my experience, therapists don't like to acknowledge that aspect of therapy.

I think the importance of the way you asked the question is worth looking at. You say in the title of your post what "does" T get out of it, versus at the end of your first paragraph you ask what the therapeutic relationship "should be." These are two vastly different questions. I don't know that there's one thing that there's one thing that Ts should get out of the relationship.

As I can relate to your struggle, I know that I would be furious with CW had she been my T. I mean, my struggle with infertility is one of the main reasons that I'm in therapy in the first place. So CFW, and other bad Ts, I can't speak for what they get out of the relationship or what they should get.

Now I can speak to what some do get out of the relationship. My experience is anecdotal, so mileage may vary. My stepmom is a psychologist, and I know that she was turned to psychology as a "wounded healer." My stepmom experienced some rough stuff as she was growing up. She wanted to understand in a very intimate way how the things that she experienced had affected her, so she went the academic route to do so. She then also found solace in taking that knowledge and using it to help others. I know that roboT also identifies as a "wounded healer." I think that's probably true for a lot of altruistic professions. I know that I went into special education to help fight injustice that I saw in the system that I was let down by.

on my T's business FaceBook profile he writes that he finds his work deeply fulfilling...

" I find partnering with individuals in facing and healing their suffering as well as exploring, identifying and pursuing their dreams to be a deeply fulfilling part of my life."

The therapeutic relationship is definitely not meant to be about them or their needs.

That said, I am certain that they get personal things out of it. To help others gives them a sense of purpose in their lives. Often, they will see bits and pieces of themselves in clients, and in helping the client, they may feel that they are "healing their past selves." Therapists are human, so they have their own baggage, wounds, etc., and many of them have pretty substantial ones. There are many therapists who become therapists because they themselves are in pain.

But, even though they get personal fulfillment out of the relationship, it should never become ABOUT them or their needs. In fact, that is what we pay for: for them to keep their "stuff" and their needs out of the room.

Hm, this seems to fit for my T, too. I think I frustrate her at times because I'm not that easy to figure out. She's basically said as much--not about the frustration, but about having trouble figuring out how to help me. I think she wants to help people, though I don't feel like she has a *need* to help them. And I don't get any narcissistic sense from her really.

I think my marriage counselor definitely fits the "wounded healer" category, from what he's said about his childhood and his personal issues with anxiety. I get the sense at times that he finds helping others, especially those with similar problems (raises hand), to be healing to him. He has said before, "I love what I do." I feel that he also has a need to be needed by people. I mentioned that to T a couple weeks ago, and she seemed to agree. Like, my T has a *want* to be needed, but MC has a *need*. I get that from the way he talks about being a father, too.

I'd like to think there's nothing narcissistic there...but at the same time, I feel like he probably gets something out of my needing him and being so attached to him. How could that not feed someone's ego, at least a little? And maybe that, along with the being needed thing, are why his boundaries can be a bit fuzzy with me (like individual e-mails and occasional phone calls, even though I'm a marriage counseling client, not an individual one). Pretty sure there's some kind of countertransference going on, likely paternal. T used to seem doubtful when I'd mention that, but lately she hasn't disagreed with me when I've mentioned that possibility.

But why does he find it deeply fulfilling? For altruistic reasons? For self-serving reasons? For both?

Daisydid - you are right they are two different questions. I wasn't quite sure what I was asking at first. I think now it is, what emotional place/benefit do therapists think there is for them in the therapeutic relationship?

I have no idea. My therapist also said I was boxing her in, but I can't remember why. I think many professions are rife with egos--doctors and lawyers are cliche in that regard, but I haven't seen an instance where a massive ego and arrogant know it all attitude wasn't playing a role with them. When it comes to therapists, it can get really ugly--I have had a couple who felt free to retaliate if their egos were wounded. The one I see now mostly keeps hers out of it, but every now and then, she gets stung by something I say and lets me know it. Even though it's nothing like how the others were, it feels awful when it happens because of the power imbalance.