Session with old t

JaneTennison1 · Jul 07, 2017, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

I feel so angry at her! Why does she have to be so mean. I know it's not personal because she was horrible and abusive to my friend too. The thing is, I am still attached to her. I think I will go to my appointment next Friday because if I don't show up it will give her an excuse to say that I am not relational and that I am not a good t.

Why are you paying her to abuse you? Yu don't have to prove anything, doesn't matter if she thinks whatever about you. This is not helpful, why not talk to new T?

here today · Jul 07, 2017, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

. . .I think I will go to my appointment next Friday because if I don't show up it will give her an excuse to say that I am not relational and that I am not a good t.

Just my 2 cents again, may be worth -2 cents or worse, I don't know, but who cares what she thinks? Yes, I know I still care what my ex-T thinks, that's part of the transference, dependency, lack of real sense of self, etc.

I have stood my ground some with my last T, learned how to find and stand some ground, still very much a situation in progress, and there is very little information about that process that I can find.

So, yeah, show up with the support and backing you have elsewhere (including here) and know that you have something to contribute to the profession and, who knows, maybe a lot more that her. Time will tell on that score.

There was an article on the main PC site in a series on "Psycheducation" and I believe that is a vastly underappreciated approach to people who have having difficulties. As I mentioned, you've definitely helped me with that kind of thing. That may not be "relational", but I'm not very relational either and all the "relational" T's trying to make me be like them hasn't helped that much. Maybe some new approaches are needed, who knows.

1stepatatime · Jul 07, 2017, 01:12 PM

Hi Mona
I'm sorry that old therapisthas treated you so badly. As I sit here reading about your most recent session with her and also from what you've shared in the past about her it surprises me that you've set foot in that office. You do not need her validation.. she's so screwed up that anything she has to offer is probably so skewed and off base. You're always so kind to people on this forum.. I'm betting you are the same in real life.. you sure as hell don't need that nasty woman invalidating your feelings... I hope that you'll cancel any future sessions that you've arranged and never look back😊😊

rainbow8 · Jul 07, 2017, 01:35 PM

Jul 07, 2017, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by here today

Mona -- just to let you know, you have helped me enormously with information you have shared about Dawn Devereaux and the picture from Janina Fisher's book. I am getting some strength and "authentic" ego, I think, after being shot down and demolished by my last T last year.

As I've mentioned before on the forum, I went through a horrible time last December when I connected how horrible I felt from the the last T with how horrible I had felt about age 4 or 5 from actions and attitudes, just the "way things were", in my family. And I had frozen that away. Not much else to do at the time.

I've had some continued contact with my last T by email and snail mail and may meet with her again at some point. I believe the reason the therapy could not continue was her issues, even though of course I had mine, too. And, thankfully, I think she accepted that, although she had no other personal resources to try to help with the situation at the time. I was still incredibly angry with her, though.

The topic of our most recent email was the excerpt you posted about Not One but Many Transferences. PM me if you'd like to see some of my end of that communication.

Good luck with your appointment, if you go!

Thank you for your kind words

I hope that you can work through this with your t. Its good that you can separate her issues from yours. I find my identity has gone with my t relationship because now I am a version of myself that t has told me I am.
It's very hard to get our ego strength back after a toxic relationship let alone a therapeutic relationship. I am easy to abuse, my t told me that, I am finally starting to see it.
How do you think you and your t can begin to work through and unravel all of the transferences and projections you are both placing onto each other?

Jul 07, 2017, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elio

Hmm something seems off about this logic to me.. the concept that you having boundaries and behavioral expectations of the people you hire and not hiring them if they do not meet those requirements (don't do their job) and you not being relational or a good T. It seems to me that an appropriate response to an abusive, ineffective employee would be to fire them, regardless if you are a T or not. And almost especially in this case where they are your T. It would seem to me that you are modeling appropriate behaviors in such a situation. Shoot, I'm not sure I'm making sense here.

She will use anything you do as an excuse to try to manipulate you into being what she wants you to be. She's got issues - we all do, however you don't have to pay to deal with hers. That is your choice.

might not be considered supportive as slight angry rant

Possible trigger:

This has absolutely nothing with your skills as a T or the style of therapy you provide. This is about you working on yourself, working through the inner world of Mona. From what I can tell, a good T keeps those 2 things pretty separate. As the client, they allow their T to use their skills to help them explore that inner world. And when being a T, they use their skills to help others while being focused on their clients inner world. Being able to respect your own boundaries in both areas is valuable in managing yourself and the others in the relationships involved.

IMHO - the only thing you owe her is the courtesy of canceling within her requested time frame.

Would you encourage one of your clients to continue to see... say a personal trainer that treated them this way, left them feeling the way you often feel after a session? Remember how you tried to envision wild hair T, her smile, her warmth among the tirade that was exT. To me that indicates a level of feeling safe with wild hair T. If anything returning to her to talk about whatever is causing you some concerns, would be a sign of you being relational, of you being able to use your T skills on yourself a bit, of you not running from something new, different, scary... and possibly healing. (Hard to say because of whatever rough patch you have found maybe part of your issues/projections/transference... or maybe completely based in the here and now and you'll find that wild hair T also won't work for you in the long run even though her methods and techniques are much different than exT.)

ok..

ADVICE: do what you feel you need to do... for you, not for any of us here at PC, not for whatever exT has said/done... do what Mona thinks Mona needs to do to feel good about her choices, to be able to walk away with Mona's head held high because Mona knows she has lived the Mona she wants to be, she has made the choices that she feels is the best for Mona, not just in the now but for future Mona too. We'll be here regardless of which choice you make.

I think what really works between wild haired t and I is that she really listens, she has respect for me that ex t doesn't. She asks me what I think and doesn't tell me. She is very kind and generous with her time, not like ex t.
Wild t is very safe, very safe. I have told her things I would never tell ex t. I feel very held and contained with her, she cares about me leaving and makes sure it's safe to leave. She offered to see me twice a week and she offers connection in between sessions. What I notice is that abusive t never checks if it's safe to leave, she really doesn't care. I left sobbing uncontrollably on Thursday and she did not care. Wild t would have kept me a little longer to ground me before I left. Wild t makes me feel warmth when I think of her. Ex t makes me feel crazy when I think of her.
I should fire her, you are making sense because if my boundaries were healthy I would have fired her the first time she abused me.

Jul 07, 2017, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by here today

Just my 2 cents again, may be worth -2 cents or worse, I don't know, but who cares what she thinks? Yes, I know I still care what my ex-T thinks, that's part of the transference, dependency, lack of real sense of self, etc.

I have stood my ground some with my last T, learned how to find and stand some ground, still very much a situation in progress, and there is very little information about that process that I can find.

So, yeah, show up with the support and backing you have elsewhere (including here) and know that you have something to contribute to the profession and, who knows, maybe a lot more that her. Time will tell on that score.

There was an article on the main PC site in a series on "Psycheducation" and I believe that is a vastly underappreciated approach to people who have having difficulties. As I mentioned, you've definitely helped me with that kind of thing. That may not be "relational", but I'm not very relational either and all the "relational" T's trying to make me be like them hasn't helped that much. Maybe some new approaches are needed, who knows.

I definitely think there is a gap for new approaches. My new t is very psycho educational and explains everything we do together, she helps me to put words to what I am feeling. She explains and expands and together we process things.
It feels relational to me because we are learning together. Ex t just shouts at me which is not relational at all.
I am glad you found your feet and are able to take a stand against your t. Takes guts and courage because it is a risk to take a stand, sounds like by doing this you are stepping into your identity and your sense of self more and more, integrating the parts you had to disown in order to be in relationship and be accepted by your t.

Jul 07, 2017, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1stepatatime

Hi Mona

I'm sorry that old therapisthas treated you so badly. As I sit here reading about your most recent session with her and also from what you've shared in the past about her it surprises me that you've set foot in that office. You do not need her validation.. she's so screwed up that anything she has to offer is probably so skewed and off base. You're always so kind to people on this forum.. I'm betting you are the same in real life.. you sure as hell don't need that nasty woman invalidating your feelings... I hope that you'll cancel any future sessions that you've arranged and never look back

Thank you

I have tears in my eyes reading your post. That's what hurts the most is the invalidation. Always feeling like I am exaggerating and causing trouble. I don't need her validation be cause like you pointed out she is skewed, she is dysfunctional and toxic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

Why are you paying her to abuse you? Yu don't have to prove anything, doesn't matter if she thinks whatever about you. This is not helpful, why not talk to new T?

You are so right, it doesn't matter what she thinks but I care. I rang new t and fessed up about seeing ex t. She was really great, she said she felt worried that this would happen after our rupture. She apologised for her part on the rupture. She didn't push me to go back to her but said her door is always open and when I ready to walk away from this abusive relationship with ex t we can begin to do some powerful work together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkDNA

this is gaslighting and manipulation

Yes, it is and by someone whom I used to trust and respect.

missbella · Jul 07, 2017, 03:06 PM

From everything you tell us she's an utterly unreliable source. My project with my bully therapist was deflating his authority and seeing him as the buffoon that he is. Before they were therapists, they were someone's classmate. They go home and run out of orange juice.

JaneTennison1 · Jul 07, 2017, 04:11 PM

The lure of abusers is quite powerful, they will put you down so you feel you have to prove yourself and then praise you just enough that you feel worthy somehow. You will never prove yourself to her, the most freeing thing is when you realise that you don't have to, she is of no consequence. Good luck!

Out There · Jul 07, 2017, 04:53 PM

The belief seems to be that you were abused and consequently are vulnerable to further abuse ( which we are ) so to stop this she abuses further until you say that's enough and she thinks she's got a result. BUT the toll this will be taking on your brain and your body will be horrendous. My T was very concerned at the further trauma I was experiencing was looping when we were trying to get to earlier trauma , and part of that for me too was retraumatisation by a supposed trauma T. I hope you go back to the witchy T , she sounds like she's open to why there's a rupture. I know both my T's did really well with ruptures and I've done well since. Sad that a T should have such problems and not see them. I wonder what's going on in her supervision why this isn't being picked up.

velcro003 · Jul 07, 2017, 06:36 PM

It seems clear from this thread that you know you shouldn't EVER go back to your abusive ex-T. You going back and trying to "fix" things or tell her what upset you will only backfire on you. I can guarantee it. Don't quit on wild-haired T just yet. I know you have some worries and issues, but nothing that has screamed RED FLAG to me.

Jul 08, 2017, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missbella

From everything you tell us she's an utterly unreliable source. My project with my bully therapist was deflating his authority and seeing him as the buffoon that he is. Before they were therapists, they were someone's classmate. They go home and run out of orange juice.

Everything she tells me is unreliable and based on her version of events and her truth. Sorry your t was a bully

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneTennison1

The lure of abusers is quite powerful, they will put you down so you feel you have to prove yourself and then praise you just enough that you feel worthy somehow. You will never prove yourself to her, the most freeing thing is when you realise that you don't have to, she is of no consequence. Good luck!

I am not quite there yet, as part of me still wants to prove to her I am a good t. I think there is some reenactment going on here and it's replaying some toxic science from my youth where I would try to please my mother and she would put me down and tell me I wasn't good enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Out There

The belief seems to be that you were abused and consequently are vulnerable to further abuse ( which we are ) so to stop this she abuses further until you say that's enough and she thinks she's got a result. BUT the toll this will be taking on your brain and your body will be horrendous. My T was very concerned at the further trauma I was experiencing was looping when we were trying to get to earlier trauma , and part of that for me too was retraumatisation by a supposed trauma T. I hope you go back to the witchy T , she sounds like she's open to why there's a rupture. I know both my T's did really well with ruptures and I've done well since. Sad that a T should have such problems and not see them. I wonder what's going on in her supervision why this isn't being picked up.

I imagine she isn't actually bringing any of these to supervision or she is choosing only to bring her version of events. Her skewed version. It makes me angry that she can't see what is going on. I went to a new supervisor this week and I told her about my personal therapy. She was disgusted. She asked if o could ring ex t and tell her I was never going back. I am not there yet but she did say I was being retraumatised by the abuse and that I had to stop going. She will support me to be in a good enough place to finish with my t.
My t calls herself very intuitive and reflective but that's how I can tell she is skewed because she is neither. I keep wanting to fix this but my new supervisor said it's not my responsibility to fix it and I can't because my ts issues are the problem not mine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by velcro003

It seems clear from this thread that you know you shouldn't EVER go back to your abusive ex-T. You going back and trying to "fix" things or tell her what upset you will only backfire on you. I can guarantee it. Don't quit on wild-haired T just yet. I know you have some worries and issues, but nothing that has screamed RED FLAG to me.

I am going back to wild haired t next weekend. I really feel drawn to her after this experience, she is a little strange but she is not a bully and is one of the kindest ts I have ever met.

Jul 08, 2017, 11:45 AM

Your old T does sound like a monster who lacks self-awareness about how she interacts with you, Mona. I understand the desire to go back and try to fix it, I recently did a similar thing with my first therapist and we ended in an even worst conflict of the same kind. Then he blames me for saying I am not going back to more sessions to address it. It sounds crazy to me, these people making money from abusing clients. I hope you decide not to see her again.

here today · Jul 08, 2017, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

. . .

I am not quite there yet, as part of me still wants to prove to her I am a good t. I think there is some reenactment going on here and it's replaying some toxic science from my youth where I would try to please my mother and she would put me down and tell me I wasn't good enough.

. . .

For what it's worth, this sounds solid to me. Whatever you decide, you are (somewhat) aware of what is going on with yourself and not letting go of the situation without trying to get what you need from it -- whether it's a solid decision not to go back or going back and trying to find some footing to hold your ground. If/when you can do that, then your ex-T's abuse will just roll off of you, like water on a duck's back. But if not, then of course the abuse can feel like acid, be very painful, and upset you like the first visit did.

Still, seems like you've gotten some information and clarity from the first visit, so overall, not too bad? Whereas, recovery from old "not good enough" feelings with a parent. . .you probably know better than I do if there is an agreed upon, effective therapeutic way to deal with those.

AllHeart · Jul 08, 2017, 04:28 PM

Do you think your t is a narcissist? She kind of sounds like one.

Understanding what you are dealing with might better help you make the break from this traumatic bond. Melanie Tonia Evans has a lot of great free resources to help someone break free from abuse. Geared toward narcissistic abuse but relevant for all kinds of abusive relationships.

satsuma · Jul 08, 2017, 05:10 PM

I really hope this T gets her licence revoked at some point. Or even goes far enough to be arrested by the police and prosecuted if she does something really crazy and provable.

Not any responsibility of yours Mona, I'm just expressing a general sort of wish. It's terrifying to think of a woman like this coming into contact with vulnerable clients.

I'm really sorry, for you, that you ever started seeing this abusive T, and that it's so hard to leave her

Jul 10, 2017, 04:33 AM

I read this, thought of you Mona.

https://thepsychpractice.com/plog/20...-and-lightning

Out There · Jul 10, 2017, 07:59 AM

That's a good article thanks QM - both my T's would find that interesting I think.

Jul 10, 2017, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

Your old T does sound like a monster who lacks self-awareness about how she interacts with you, Mona. I understand the desire to go back and try to fix it, I recently did a similar thing with my first therapist and we ended in an even worst conflict of the same kind. Then he blames me for saying I am not going back to more sessions to address it. It sounds crazy to me, these people making money from abusing clients. I hope you decide not to see her again.

Oh wow, sorry you had this experience with your first therapist. Did you ever go back again? Sounds like there was some gaslighting going on in your r/s with that t.
I really want to fix this with my t but I really don't think it's possible. I can't unsee what I have seen from her. I seen the abuse before but now I am beginning to really feel it and it hurts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by here today

For what it's worth, this sounds solid to me. Whatever you decide, you are (somewhat) aware of what is going on with yourself and not letting go of the situation without trying to get what you need from it -- whether it's a solid decision not to go back or going back and trying to find some footing to hold your ground. If/when you can do that, then your ex-T's abuse will just roll off of you, like water on a duck's back. But if not, then of course the abuse can feel like acid, be very painful, and upset you like the first visit did.

Still, seems like you've gotten some information and clarity from the first visit, so overall, not too bad? Whereas, recovery from old "not good enough" feelings with a parent. . .you probably know better than I do if there is an agreed upon, effective therapeutic way to deal with those.

I don't think I do know or any therapists knows an effective way to heal from that. I really think the clients know what heals and what doesn't, most of the learning is from clients such as ourselves and sometimes we have to hurt over and over before we see what's causing it.
My ts comments are like she is pouring acid on me and burning me. She is really going out of her way to be hurtful to me and not acknowledging it when she does. When I bring up what is happening between us she will swiftly move on to something she wants to talk about. She accuses me of lying if I say something but I don't show the feelings.

Jul 10, 2017, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllHeart

Do you think your t is a narcissist? She kind of sounds like one.

Understanding what you are dealing with might better help you make the break from this traumatic bond. Melanie Tonia Evans has a lot of great free resources to help someone break free from abuse. Geared toward narcissistic abuse but relevant for all kinds of abusive relationships.

Thanks for that Link

It's funny you should ask that because I only googled narcissistic ts last ween because I was convinced my t was a narcissist. She fitted a lot of the characteristics.
She takes everything personally and takes it out on me. It is a very traumatic bond we are in and at times it's frightening what I put up with and sit there and take it.
My t has a very fragile ego like most narcissist and will shame me rather feel shame herself.

Jul 10, 2017, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satsuma

I really hope this T gets her licence revoked at some point. Or even goes far enough to be arrested by the police and prosecuted if she does something really crazy and provable.

Not any responsibility of yours Mona, I'm just expressing a general sort of wish. It's terrifying to think of a woman like this coming into contact with vulnerable clients.

I'm really sorry, for you, that you ever started seeing this abusive T, and that it's so hard to leave her

Thank you for your kind words satsuma

I have done a good job of pretending this wasn't happening but I can't pretend anymore, it's too hard but I also feel that I don't want her to suffer. The sad thing is, being a t is her life, if her licence got revoked she would die. I just want her to sit with me and have an honest conversation about what is happening between us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietMind

I read this, thought of you Mona.

https://thepsychpractice.com/plog/20...-and-lightning

This is a great article, Thank you QM. As I was reading down through this I realised my t has turned into my abusers. The last few days have been a relationship shock because all of her words are spinning around in my head and they are putting me down and judging me.
I am stuck in this awful place and being triggered by all relationships.i feel sick when I think about her.

Jul 12, 2017, 02:13 PM

I have done a good job of pretending this wasn't happening but I can't pretend anymore, it's too hard but I also feel that I don't want her to suffer. The sad thing is, being a t is her life, if her licence got revoked she would die. I just want her to sit with me and have an honest conversation about what is happening between us.

The thing about this woman is, that if you don't report her, she will find another poor victim, who maybe is not as strong as you! The cycle will continue & other people don't deserve this especially if you could have attempted to stop her by reporting her.

Jul 12, 2017, 04:02 PM

Mona, dont let others make you feel guilty about what others may or may not go through. In the therapeutic realm you are responsible for you only, you do what you need to do to take care of you, Mona and keep yourself safe. This is my opinion only.

Elio · Jul 12, 2017, 05:02 PM

Mona, just checking... are you still going to see xT on Friday and then wild hair T on Sat?

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