Do you think psychologists are greedy and overcharge or not?

I ask this question because I myself have a PhD but it's in education. When I work as a high school teacher or college adjunct professor or academic tutor, I make approximately one-tenth to one-fourth of what a psychologist charges by the hour if outside preparations are taken into account. I always have to do real preparations outside of my classroom or tutoring sessions, whereas I never seen my psychologists doing preparatory reading/research/journal studying prior to my sessions.

I'm sure psychologists defend their high wages as due to their heavy educational training, but I have just as much training but don't get paid anywhere near as much. Plus, most psychologists I have met really like to relax and not work long hours: whereas I go home at 4:30pm and work later in the evening, the psychologists go home at 5pm and don't do any more reading, writing, grading, etc. I work on weekends, but they don't.

Do you think psychologists are really interested in helping their patients? I think they care, but there is no way they would have chosen this career but for the high wages. So in essence it's greed foremost driving them and helping others secondarily.

I think it depends on a lot of things. You have made some really good points and differences. I guess in every profession there is a percentage of greedy people and psychology isn't exempt.
Here in Ireland, psychotherapists do not make enough money to survive so it's definitely not greed, it's dedication and vocation that draws us into doing this work. I myself work full time in another job and even though I am fully qualified and more so than most therapists I know who only have diplomas, I still have to work full time in a job that is nothing to do with what I have trained in, I am expected to work voluntary even I have paid so much for my education without any grants or help from anybody. So I personally don't think that psychotherapists are greedy.

Some therapists do overcharge. But in a free market, it is up to you to decide how much you are willing to pay.

I think a lot of people are paid more than they deserve and I think a lot of people are paid less than they deserve. Does a Hollywood actor deserve to be paid more than a highly qualified medical professional?

I do think that many overcharge relative what they do for it. Mine (in a very expensive city) charged $180 and $200, and that was on the lower end of their sliding scale because I was not willing to pay more. Mine did quite a bit of extra outside of the 45-50 mins conversation once a week as they interacted with me quite a lot via email between sessions. But so do most professionals these days, communication is constant in many jobs. It is often said that being a psychotherapist can be emotionally very stressful and taxing, but so are many other kinds of work in their own way. And I think many professions definitely require more involvement and actual "work" done than a psychotherapist's. I know that my Ts like to constantly educate themselves, read related materials, one of them also publishes a lot of online therapy-related stuff, but so do many people, especially if self employed, to keep up with demands and attract clients. I agree with luc's note that there is unequal and disproportional distribution of income in many professions but, after all, those that can pull off high incomes do so because someone is willing to pay. I think that psychotherapy, especially private practice, is a sort of luxury thing with a certain kind of clientele, like spas. But if these is need for it, if clients pay that sort of money, why wouldn't they charge it?

As for what drives people to the profession, it may vary a lot between locations and cultures, but where I live, the compensation certainly tends to be a major attraction. I heard this from quite a few therapists directly. I do not feel that's a problem - there are plenty of professions and jobs people go into for the income as a main factor. The problem, for me, is more that there are so many bad, unethical, narcissistic etc Ts that collect the money and take advantage of or directly harm vulnerable clients in return, don't even make much effort to do a better job or to really try to get to know clients individually and to adapt to their needs. But such sharks exist in many other "high profile" professions as well. To the point of the OP, I definitely do think that teachers in general invest more into their work than therapists and often do not receive the appreciation and compensation they deserve. The work of a therapist is also very mysterious and hard to measure quality and outcomes yet many display attitudes as though they were somehow superior to ordinary humans and demand to be treated and compensated accordingly.

This is true, but the numbers of top Hollywood actors who are making millions per film is about 10% of total Hollywood actors, maybe? 15%? There are very few Brad Pitts and Nicole Kidmans. Most actors don't become household names, and Broadway actors don't earn nearly as much as Hollywood actors. It's the same thing for top professional athletes, who earn millions, versus ordinary athletes, who become physical education teachers or insurance salespeople.

But the percentage of psychologists in the United States who earn $100-200 per hour session is close to 80%. Sometimes, a psychologist might use a sliding scale or work at a non-profit for less money, but the vast majority earn $100-200 per hour whether working in private practice, in a clinic, or in a hospital. Even psychological social workers with MFT, MS, or MA degrees earn $60-120 per hour.

I think when costs are paid for by insurance or by taxes, people don't question the bills are much as their own discretionary spending.

I don't think therapists actually do anything - but I believe most charge what the market will bear. If someone is willing to pay a fee to them, I see no reason for them not to charge it. Usually people have some choice in which one to hire and if one cannot afford a certain therapist, then it is often possible to find one who charges less or is at a clinic or something like that. I don't see it as being because they have been trained or anything. I don't see their education as being all that long or rigorous. People are willing to pay what they charge so they get away with charging it.

And when insurance is figured in - there is a whole other set of shenanigans going on both in the initial charge and the reimbursement - so it may say $100- but $100 is not really what is being exchanged.

I consider a psychologist a specialist and therefore deserving of higher pay just the same as a person has to pay more to see an ENT for ear problems compared to seeing a GP.

I believe,just as in any other profession,there are those that truly care and want to help others and those that are only in it for the money.

Do you wish you had chosen a different career?It sounds as if maybe you do.

I said pretty much what I thought: my career is fine and what I wish to be doing, but the marketplace is warped and unreasonable, and I should be paid more for what I do whereas psychologists should be paid less for what they do.

I do not complacently say, "Oh well, that's the marketplace." Obviously, it's the way the marketplace works, but the marketplace isn't necessarily reasonable or logical, which is what I am pointing out.

I don't want to rip people off, which is essentially what I am accusing psychologists of doing. I do not wish I had become a psychologist.

There are wealthy lawyers, but a lot of lawyers do not earn more than $60,000 per year, and law school education is not tuition-free whereas I got a free tuition ride and scholarship for my PhD, so I do not have to pay off my educational debt whereas lawyers have to pay off their law school debt. Also, the lawyers I know work very hard, in contrast to psychologists. Whereas psychologists only seem to work M-F 9am-5pm, I know many lawyers who work all 7 days per week 9am to 7pm or to 9pm. Lawyers have a real work ethic, assuming they have clients.

I agree that lawyers have a real work ethic and actually do work - unlike therapists.
But there are all sorts of warped and unreasonable salaries for undeserving professions. Professional sports figures come to mind as do surgeons and plumbers and auto repair people etc. For me, I would say the therapy people are more ripping off in pretending to actually do something and in failing to admit what they do is not science but a lot of stabbing and hoping and time (for which clients give them credit for rather than accepting that time does change a good number of things) - rather than the fees they request.

NOT ALL LAWYERS would be like that nor are ALL THERAPISTS, there is always exceptions, you make a lot of generalizations from the posts I've seen.

Maybe you have not had good luck with therapists but there is great ones out there, who do actually work and help people.....

I have no problems with making generalizations about those guys. Believe whatever you want about them and I will do the same. In my belief and experience - more as an attorney who sues them -it is all -the profession those guys subscribe to as a whole.
I meant what I said.

I don't believe therapist are overpaid,but I will agree that there are a lot of bad therapist out there and should find another profession. This is the same with teachers. There are a lot of lousy teachers out there, from preschool to university level.

I can't speak for therapist in other countries, but psychotherapist salaries in the USA don't begin to compare with lawyer salaries. The average lawyer makes ~138,000/year. I come from a family of lawyers that make a lot and do little (a few work hard) for their government and private pay checks.

1995 I paid my Ph.D Jungian therapist $180.00/hr with no insurance, but my divorce lawyer (certified) was $360.00/hr in 1995. And, the divorce never got past a bifurcation divorce. It was emotionally easier for me to walk away from comingled assets.

In 2012, I had attachment therapy for 18/months with a LMFT with 24/7 contact unless she was sleeping, working, and doing her life. Cost for the first 4 months was $1000.00/month then $500.00/month till we terminated. She also did 1 hour a week of family therapy included in that price.

I now have an LMFT with a Psy.D for $200.00/month when I am in town and choose to see her, usually 4hours/week for a month or two. Phone calls and emails are free no matter where I am living, but I don't use them. I use her to deal with aging parents and mostly and career advancement. These last two therapist do not take insurance.

So again, NO I don't think psychotherapist are anywhere near being one of the overpaid professions. Besides, if you look at what the therapist charges the insurance and what the insurance actually reimburses is not the same.

Fair point I guess, it was an extreme example. I suppose I just believe in general that most people aren't paid what they're really worth or deserve - many are paid more and many are paid less.

I have a regular car, nothing fancy or expensive and labor from my dealer cost $125.00/hour, not including parts.

My plummer cost $105.00/hour for a typical job, more if it's complicated.

I'm getting basement bargain rates when it comes to psychotherapist. So, I can't complain.

I think that one issue with evaluating a therapist's worth is how to measure the result. This is a main area where it differs from many other professions. The "product" (if any) is often very vague and the value even changes over time because it is so highly subjective. I've been all over the map myself between thinking it was well worth it and that it was a useless waste of time, money and energy, and actually created more problems, with the same therapist. I do try to look at the larger picture and process but there are never the kind of metrics and outcomes that can be applied to many other professionals' work. If a mechanic fixed my car or a plumber fixed my bathroom, or a teacher have me lessons and educational material in a subject that I want to learn about, those are clear things. But how to evaluate a therapist and when?

For me, the evaluation of my therapist comes from improvement in my life: familial relationships, personal friendships, and my abilities to handle my life. My recovery time is so much quicker since therapy. A therapist like my car mechanic, my plummer and many other professionals that don't do what I consider in their realm of expertise can and has been fired by me.

I'm sure there are some who overcharge and are greedy. But I don't think you can really call them all greedy for charging whatever the going rate is. Especially when you consider that many of them charge on a sliding scale based on the client's ability to pay. I was between jobs for a while and low on funds, and my T lowered the fee by half during that time. If he wanted more money he'd have let me reduce sessions instead of paying less for them.

I agree that teachers should be paid more but fact is, how hard you work at a job isn't the only thing that determines how much you get paid.

It isn't a product they provide, it's a process and they are almost entirely voluntary, very few people are forced to see them. If you expect to get a product, them solving your problem then yes they are probably over paid because they can't provide that. if you see them and are part of the process and don't expect magic then their pay is justifiable.

Not sure how their pay is justifiable under the second option if the client is doing the work? It seems less justifiable then.

A lot of professionals don't provide a product - the OP isn't when she teaches. Lawyers can't always guarantee you'll get the result you want when you hire them. Likewise doctors.

The difference I see between the OP and the psychologists in the first post is the OP is an employee, while the psychologist is self-employed and charged what clients are willing to pay.

I've only seen one therapist I thought was worth her fee, but she did more outside session than most will.

The good ones don't end up in court, so ya, no kidding you would be seeing the bad ones in your job. It drives me insane when people categorize everyone together.... by race, profession, gender etc....You do realize many people do not like lawyers at all..??

I hope you at least like your T, or maybe shop around for a better one, a good one can change your very negative view on them....there is good in bad in every profession, even LAW!!! (shocker LOL)

So called good ones do end up in court. And general comments about attorneys are not all that bothersome to me.

The fees are high, it's true. As someone who's self-employed, though, I charge what some might consider a high fee if it were a regular salary, but it's not. There is risk involved in hiring out by the hour. That said, I think mh professionals charge a lot even when part of a clinic, but in that case some of it is going to overhead and billing.

Regardless, I think pretty much everything costs too much these days, relative to what an average person is trying to get by on.

I haven't seen any therapists worth their fee (by my standards). But, I agree with the general idea that they charge what the market will bear.

I also haven't had any altruistic therapists -- the matter has come up with both current T and former T in different ways and they've both said that it'll be "Adios, Amigo" if I can't ever pay their full fee i.e., my only option would be to reduce session frequency but continue to pay them the full fee of $125-$150.

Neither (same as most other Ts I checked out as well) offers any out of session contact either.

But, having said that, in my specific case, I doubt I'd be able to do certain things -- basically sort out my issues with my bio family -- without a therapist. I can't ignore it any more and all other ways I tried (on my own, help of friends etc) were a disaster.

So, I think if I didn't have this looming over me, I'd reconsider doing therapy at all. To me then, the price being worth it or not depends on the issue and the ease of finding alternate solutions.

One of the biggest chores of self-employment is chasing up unpaid invoices. I don't know how big a problem that is for therapists, but I bet it's not negligible.