Emailed T that I found her bf

You don't have a right to know anything beyond what she wants to share with you. Period. Just like she can't go around digging into your private life outside of what you feel ready or willing to share OR talking about you to others.

You can be angry that she didn't tell you something - you can feel however you want. Just recognize that she is not obligated to give you any of this information, and your behavior because of her holding a very appropriate and necessary boundary is not her fault.

The more you talk about this, the more I can see that it's not this particular situation (you googling your T or stumbling on this information) that is important, but rather your perseverating that implies some sort of pathology.

It boggles my mind that you don't seem to grasp her desire for some privacy and boundaries. But, I am not a psychiatrist nor a psychologist, and probably for good reason.

I'm sure you have boundaries too, we all do, and it's not for her to break hers because you want her to.

I think it will be fine to discuss everything, I just hope what you learn here helps your outside life too.

^This, 1000x and more. You know how unpleasant, disturbing, painful, what have you... can be to ride out a craving in early addiction recovery? It's like knowing 100% sure that what you crave will likely eventually kill you but, at the same time, being 100% sure that you want it anyway, just for today, and everything else is a blur. Maybe I can get away with it just one more time? It's like wanting to burn the whole world, everything you have cherished and built up with hard work, over many years - just for that moment, hour, or few hours. Creating an entire parallel universe, manipulating everything and everyone in it, just that you can get that fix. Just one, today. And then one more...

And then, finally recognizing it for what it is, and wanting to change... it does not go away with the intent, at all, more the opposite in fact. You spend most of your days and nights fighting mind-altering, insane cravings, alternating between wishing you were dead and a more integrated, decent person - the worst kind of cognitive dissonance ever. Sometimes having to literally sit on your hands, wishing your hands were dissolved in a barrel of perchloric acid or something, in order to not touch whatever would make you reach out for your drug of choice. You want to kill yourself every day, 10 times a day, or 100 times, almost no matter what the day brings - it is often very random. But try to resist the urge, initially from nothing else but mere survival instinct. Then slowly try to find ways, methods, people, activities that distract you and eventually help build and entirely different lifestyle and personal universe around you. You do need to create a different world inside-out to beat that beast.

Sounds very dramatic, right? But it is how serious addiction recovery works, you can ask anyone who has made it long-term. It is hell on Earth initially, literally, every day and often every hours or minutes of the day, for a good while. Changing natural habits and ingrained desires may or may not be similarly hard, but I guess sometimes it is, because it is the same mechanism that creates these things in our brains, just variable extents and triggers.

You are doing very well, rainbow, being so persistently open about your things here on PC. I kinda wonder though whether simply the act of posting and discussing these things have perhaps created yet another layer of your habit though? Instead of action to truly resolve it, in therapy or in different ways maybe?

Maybe my problem is that I think of my T as a friend even though she isn't. It doesn't SEEM like it's none of my business. It SEEMS like it's a natural thing to ask. She volunteered that she had a bf because we were discussing my situation, of being a widow and how could I ever meet someone. I probably asked her because she divorced during the time I've been seeing her. So, what's his name just seemed a natural question to me. T has told me about her adult children; she's not a blank slate T. She's more casual and open than most Ts, I think.

Part of me understands that she doesn't have to tell me and I'm being rude. But the child part wants to know everything about her; she feels like she's somehow in T's family, as weird as that sounds. I'm an intelligent woman. I don't understand why I don't accept that it's none of my business!

Idk. Do we HAVE to be in control of all of our impulses and desires?

Not her fault. There's something wrong with me. I always knew that.

Thanks, una.

Yes. I get it but my need to know is SO STRONG that I bypass Ts boundaries and right to privacy. T uses IFS, working with parts of the personality. She will say it's a very young part who feels that way, and will encourage ME to take if that part. She will ask "what does that part need from you?" Idk. The part wants to be part of T. Doesn't want to be shut out!

So I have to accept other people's boundaries. I hate that because they're shutting me out of their lives.

You describe the pain of addiction recovery well. But is wanting to know something about someone really as harmful and bad as being on drugs or alcohol or whatever the addiction may be? Are you saying it is the same? I think people are forgetting that I did let it go about T's bf for about 2 years!! Maybe less, but I DID drop it. I just don't see the comparison between addiction and what I'm doing. I got triggered and it's something I have to discuss more about with my T. That much is clear. I don't know if I can resolve my wanting to know. I didn't Google T for a long time, whether 1 or 2 years so I can do it. I'm not sure I can stop wanting to know about her, though. Thank you for trying to help. I appreciate it. I don't know what to do, or even if it's not a big deal to T. I'll find out next week.

But in the end this craving to find out will hurt you. When people don't like their boundaries being trampled they tend to push away the one doing the trampling. I get the impression you desire closeness rather than people becoming more determined to keep their secrets from you. What you are doing may not be as harmful as addictions and T may not mind but it runs opposite to the effect you want to have and may harm you in other ways.

"Do we HAVE to be in control of all of our impulses and desires?"

I would think being in control of them rather than them controlling you would be a good thing. One can have a thought or feeling and not act impulsively or compulsively.

I think Xyn's point (I could be wrong but this is how I read it) was more that a craving for a drug or drink and withstanding that craving is like you having a craving or desire or impulse or "need" to know more about your therapist and that you can learn to control your behavior and withstand the not knowing just like an addict who wants to recover learns to not go get the hit. It is not fun or easy -but it is possible. It is also possible to discern needs from wants. In this case, knowing more about the therapist (or badgering for more info, finding it out and then immediately telling the therapist etc) would not be my definition of a need. It would, in how I see the meaning, be more of a want.

Even if your T minimizes or "forgives" you, your behavior isn't going to work in real life either. You'll find that the more you push, the more they'll shut you out. I wouldn't put up with someone constantly trying to get personal information from me. It's one thing to look up new people to try to get to know a little about them, or to see pictures to see them again. But to actively search for information someone told you they don't want you to know about? Do you have any respect for people?

I used to look up my T all the time, just to see her picture. She asked me to stop when she gave me the transitional objects. You know what I did? I stopped searching her! I respect her. I care about her. Sure I could keep doing it behind her back. She'd never know. But it's about the principle of things. It's about honor and respect.

You know they say that it's better to be respected than loved? Well this is a perfect example of where you love someone but don't respect them.

This is kinda out there, but does it feel like something your brother would do or know, but not you? Im just asking because every once in a while i will laugh out loud at something on tv and omg it sounds EXACTLY like my brothers laugh, and i am trying to figure out what is up with THAT?!

do you think it's one of the symptoms of BPD with its complexity?

I understand that need to know being so strong, you react to the impulse by searching rather than sit with it or soothe it in other ways since the boundary -feeling isnt yet internalized and requires deliberate choice.

What I am curious is why tell your T? Is it about vulnerability and honesty, admitting this is an addiction over which you find yourself powerless? Is about is throwing it in your T's face to get back at her for not telling you( which is how it reads)? Is it about confession, guilt, remorse- you found it and now you feel badly?

I see the comparison between addiction and finding T's BF's name and telling her that very clearly. You risk your entire relationship for a moment of gratification. Your T has a history of working with you through boundary invasions it seems like, but I dont think mine would, for example. I think he would give consequences, and say hey I care about you but in one moment you burned our village down, to use the language of X's amazing post on addiction. He might terminate or refer, but I doubt he would tolerate very much defiance of his stated boundary. Even if he asked me to respect his boundary, and I said fu & searched & found what he said to back off about, and he literally kept me on as a client, he wouldn't trust me anymore.

The reason I wouldn't do what you did is not bc I wouldn't have a similar impulse, or because I dont have a ton of anguish at being shut out from his real life and yearn for some never-ending connection( I do) but bc I fear my T losing trust in my self control and wanting to work with me more than I want him to know I can circumvent his wishes.

Rainbow-
I think putting yourself out here for others to comment is a sign of strength. Maybe if all of us started threads disclosing our worst traits, experiences, patterns, behaviors, we too would have all sorts of types of responses or advice. Anyway, good on you for exploring this issue so openly and honestly.

I have another idea-i think of this as similar to stalking, which is often done for control over the other person when someone feels powerless, to affect the other person. To be clear, I don't think you are a stalker; but similar motivations seem characteristic of your situation.

Since you are so angry your T shuts you out, might this be a way to exert control over her? It sounds like to me that your trying to balance the power.

I think the information about having some control over impulses and desires and the addiction analogy might be useful for these kinds of situations. Do you really need to keep linking these behaviors to the child inside of you as if it's a separate being? I feel/felt children inside too, but they are part of me. They've since mostly integrated...

I can see the usefulness but after so long in therapy, I wonder if continually separating them keeps you in a state where you have an external locus of control-helpless, powerless, lack of agency. It seems like you often compare your behaviors to those of a baby or small child. I wonder if that holds you back.

Rayne - too long to quote! - but i dont think its an adult who is asking permission of another adult. I really relate to this, because i waited until the last possible second to "ask" for a vacation from t over the holiday break.

Also, i have been reading a little about self-determination as a factor in managing weight. But i am having difficulty finding anything about "thwarting self-determination".

Thank you. You're right. My rational adult Self knows that, but an emotional, hurt part doesn't.

I agree but it's a very strong want. It feels like a need!

It hurts to read that you don't think I respect people. I do respect them. I don't do this ALL the time. I stopped looking up information about T and her family 1 or 2 years ago. I can't remember exactly how long. I'm not sure if T minds or not. She was probably trying to get me to understand boundaries. I hope she doesn't think I don't respect her. I do! I see that you're probably correct though. Reading all of these replies shows me I'm wrong. I've always been a good person so this bothers me a lot. I wish it were next Wednesday so I could talk about it with my T.

Thanks. My brother didn't respect MY boundaries so it's probably something he would do. Maybe I'll ask him if he thinks it's wrong.

Thank you for your observation. Yes I do. I think it's about not being a separate person from my Mom. It hurts to read so many criticisms of my behavior. It's also scary to see how my past can never escape me! This wanting to find out is something big! I didn't discuss it much with my other T's though I did it with them too. First thing I always did was find out my Ts address, drive by their house, and tell them. Except for the two Ts who did therapy in their homes.

Thank you. I think there are a few reasons I tell my T. Guilt is one. I can't keep it from her because she KNOWS when I feel guilty, and has asked me if I've been googling her! The first time of course, she didn't know what was wrong. That was when I drove past her house and I was afraid of what she would say or do. I don't think it's that I want to throw it in her face. I think I tell her because parts of me know I need help with the behavior so how can she help if I don't tell her? She hasn't terminated me for crossing boundaries. Part of me wants her to punish me. Also, I hate secrets so how can I not tell her? I am almost hoping she doesn't gloss over this, and tells me it decreased her trust in me. I'm just thinking that reason right now. I've told her in the past that I wanted to be punished but I forgot if it was regarding boundaries or something else.

Good points. My T introduced me to IFS and it's focus on parts. I never heard of it before. She's the one who kept telling me to separate the parts. But the goal of IFS is for the Self to be in charge of the parts, to lead the orchestra, so to speak. T doesn't do IFS with me much any more, though I loved it! She still talks about parts though. The parts are supposed to stay separate but the Self leads the show. T will want ME to soothe the part who wants to know and who crossed her boundaries. Yes, it could be to exert control too. And to equalize the relationship, and to be part of T's life.

Thanks, una. I know it's not an adult part. I respect people, especially my T.

Alternatively, instead of child to adult, this could be viewed as an adult who is vulnerable asking permission of another adult. Feeling vulnerable or helpless or powerless or overdependent can feel like a child part. But it's all us. I wonder if framing it that way can help promote agency and autonomy, an internal locus of control? Could framing it without the separation of child/adult result in a more empowering mindset that will lead to behaviors that promote getting things that you want (eg, weight loss) through internal motivation?

I can really relate to this too. I had parts and still do have childlike states. My T discourages parts, and I am glad for it. At the same time, there was a period where his actions had a retraumatizing effect on me, where I needed to be the child. I am thinking more about overall framing that helps promote a mindset to help foster an internal locus of control. Where things don't happen to you; where you are more in control of the outcome of your life. It may start with mini-outcomes, but over time, it may start the building blocks to accomplish goals, followed by living more of the life you want.

A few months ago, I stopped at an ice cream shop after therapy, and the employees looked at me strangely after I ordered. I realized I had ordered my ice cream in a child voice. It kind of woke me up about the therapy elements seeping out of the therapy frame.

Now thinking....maybe over time, clients can become acclimated to the therapy mindset? I'm an adult interacting with other adults. People don't view me as the little girl who the children didn't allow to join in on the fun at the playground, taking on a parental role by asking the other children to play or share or let me have a turn. Also, my children probably expect me to be more of an adult with a leadership style or be the wiser one. People don't want to interact with me based on my neediness and dependency...maybe best for me to keep it within the therapy walls. This, however, goes beyond the childlike mindset. There's also expecting others to have responses like a person with a healthy mindset of self-awareness and emotional health. That's not the case either, I realized in interacting with others at work while in 'therapy mode'.

Rainbow-I think your T is really sweet. I hope you don't take this as being critical of her. I'm not saying this is the 'right' way to view it or do therapy; just throwing ideas out there.

edit: Cross posted. After I wrote this, I read that you are doing IFS. Thanks for explaining.

I agree we can't blame others for our actions. At the same time, I think her T does play a role in encouraging thinking of oneself in parts. If a client is relating to herself as a child, and encouraged to do so by the person who may serve as a role model, she might have childlike behaviors.

Akin to if someone was abusing someone and they could not get out of the situation and lived in a constant state of fear. The abuser has a role in our behavior. If the person stopped abusing the person, she may no longer live in a state of fear.

Also, many people here say the T is responsible for holding the boundaries and that they understand the client's behavior that follows Ts who are not good with boundaries. People seem to be understand how a Ts behaviors affect the client. Just thinking out loud.

Like I posted, T doesn't actively do IFS with me anymore. She doesn't at all encourage me to act like a child! What she does is accept that those parts exist, and encourage my Self to take care of them. A child part is supposed to be carefree and play, not be burdened by stuff. I can't explain IFS too well but I don't want anyone to think it means staying a child. It's actually just the opposite. T has said: " It's a PART of you who thinks, feels, or wants to do whatever it is. Just a part. What can YOU do to comfort that part?"

Yeah - but if we went from being abused by parents, to being abused by a spouse - we dont really know how to have an equal adult relationship. I DID still live in a state of fear. There was no one in my kitchen, but i still expected to get yelled at there. It just was not my happy place.

You make a good point, about that child voice popping up at inopportune times. Thats the problem! T has been a safe place for the child to process this stuff, so that my adult can deal as an adult with my adult life.

Thats why i was wondering about rainbows brother. To me, it sounded like something he could have done as a kid and gotten away with it, but not her. Thats how EVERYTHING was with me and my brother. I didnt do a TENTH of the crap he did, but now hes "the one" and im the goof. Of course i am - after all the crap i went thru because of him. Personally i think hes the goof!

Sorry--I misread, and we cross posted earlier.

I do see you referring to feelings coming from baby and child parts. I still think points I made hold true--relating to yourself in child mindset in thinking of yourself in parts. If you're thinking of yourself in parts, maybe those parts have behaviors too? Disregard if not helpful. I like the carefree and playfulness concepts. I think of those qualities, too.

Edit--i didn't think or say your T was encouraging you to act like a child, only encouraging you to view and think of yourself as a child in the context of parts.

Ie, if I view myself as a child, maybe I shouldn't be surprised if I have the behaviors of a child at times.

It was the opposite for me. I never got in trouble with my parents and don't remember ever getting punished. I was obedient but there weren't really any rules that I recall. My brother got in trouble and was threatened by "Dad's strap", never me. They didn't even know about the stuff he tried with me. I'm not sure what he did to get punished. I did tell my parents about his hitting me and shooting rubber bands. May I'll ask him that too!

It's okay. Your points are valid. We all have parts of our personalities, not necessarily child parts. It's just that the young, hurt vulnerable parts are the ones who usually act out in therapy! T will say it sounds like a young part who was triggered, and we should be curious about that part.

I forgot who also does IFS here. Can anyone help out with explaining that it's not about indulging the child? Thank you!!!!

No, thats the same, at least at the beginning. They worshipped him, but ignored me. And used me against him. And i couldnt step out of line, and i didnt. Until my first husband got abusive, then i got the heck out.

I am not recommending you ask your brother about these things.

I see so many similarities between us - i really dont understand why you dont see them. I saw my brother get punished too - so i walked the straight and narrow. Still, he was favored, because he was the boy, and i was dogmeat, because i was a girl. Plain and simple. I was smart, but not particularly pretty or dainty or feminine. I was flatchested. Ergo, a failure. And trump is bringing it all back! sorry!

This may be off the track but all the persistence of finding T’s bf name after being told, ‘No' then finding it anyway and then telling T you found it...

T’s personal privacy is one thing...things she likes, what she’s studied, where she’s been...
But I can understand your T taking a hard line on protecting her *family’s* and *SO’s* privacy. I can understand she feels a duty to them to protect their privacy during her work with clients. I don’t understand why, now that you have the information, you can’t reflect and agree maybe you overstepped..? You are still feeling angry about it.

I can relate to it, as I have said.
But it also sounds like something my DD might do. Just try telling that girl ‘NO’ about anything she really wants. I never hear the end of it. DD finds it hard to accept a ‘No.’

Rainbow, another thing I’m curious about is ...how are you with T or anyone else, telling you ‘No’ about other things? Do you rebel, get hurt or mad..do you react strongly?
Is the issue about being told, ‘No.’ ?

I didn't feel I couldn't step out of line. That's where we're different. I wasn't afraid of my parents. My brother wasn't favored but neither was I. My Mom worried equally about both of us, LOL. I just don't see the similarities. My parents weren't abusive either. My Mom was always telling me I was pretty and talented. Her flaw, which I picked up on and I know it's not a good thing, was to say "You're so talented so why aren't you doing something with it, or you're pretty but you'd look better if you had good posture. Stuff like that. But overall, I think I had a good childhood and parents who cared about my brother and me. So what are the similarities again? Maybe PM me. This thread is long enough!

This sounds a lot like my mom--it's not about not caring. It's about expectations and judgment, not fully accepting you as you are, or at least that's how it felt to me. I was smart and hard-working, so my forgetting to turn in a homework assignment in, I think elementary school (and getting a 0) was this thing my mom wouldn't let me forget. Like it wasn't OK to make mistakes. If I was leaving the house, she'd ask if I wanted her to iron my shirt (the one I was wearing) before I left. I got this message that I had to be perfect and not make mistakes. I even think of a time when, as a young adult, I was at the beach with them and commented on how it felt freeing to not have to wear makeup. And my mom said basically not to get too used to that...like I needed to wear makeup to look attractive. I know some of those messages are a big part of why I'm so hard on myself (but not on others0 and worried about what other people think of me...

She was also secretive about many things, which I think is why I ended up googling my ex-T and my MC--like when he would be open about lots of things in his life, but not his wife's health...like, obviously it must be some big thing if he's choosing to hide it. So I get the struggle with the therapeutic relationship and T's boundaries... Meanwhile, current T just accepts that clients will google him, so I feel less of a need to tell him if I did that, maybe because I know he'd likely be fine with it...if that makes any sense. Like there's not a need to test him like with MC or even ex-T.