Advice on jealousy

Thanks. Very intersting and useful info

I followed your post until these sentences. Your post was so much about what you don't want.

You seem to show exceptional qualities through your posts, and nothing that indicates you are less than others or not good enough. The problem lies in what you seem to want: a personal relationship with your T after therapy ends. That wish/want has nothing to do with good enough/ less than , as you know,but with both the rules/ethics of the profession and the secret heart of your T, which is hidden from view.

No one here wants to give advice ala Dear Sugars bc it isn't true to the tenents of psychology which is for the person to find within their own direction. Advice:listen to every episode of the Dear Sugars podcast for the messiness and redemptions.

I'll take a stab at advice though. It seems by reading you are in love with your T romantically, but dont want to pony up quite to that thought. You get squeamish when he does recognize that or tries to bring it into the room. You're okay when he limits to friends/ family.

His boundaries are confusing to some of us, and they encourage you to feel possibilities for a real relationship, that is not romantic, but also isn't paid for- a friendship we will say.

Advice: With your T, dig into why shame and romantic love twine together in your mind, and try to separate them slowly over time. Your T cannot love the shame in you, bc like a firefighter fights flames, T's fight shame. Don't worry about the future, bc you cannot know what it will be; be present with your T in the now. Let go who he might be to you in the future, and be present to him now.

Feeling less than and not good enough has nothing to do with romance. 1--I've felt this way my entire life with basically everyone, but dogs

2-- I was comparing how having anxiety puts me in limits (rules of therapy) that other people don't have, it makes me FEEL less than and not good enough, like, how my disabled brother must feel in many situations

People really need to stop acting like they know me, I DO NOT WANT a romantic thing with ANYONE, ever, I hardly can stand most people for long periods of time

I just want to be able to get to know him better and hang out when therapy ends, even though he has already said no, it doesn't stop the desire and wish and the jealousy of those who get that, without limits....

At any rate, it's not something I'm bringing up, there is far more pressing issues I need to deal with right now.

Also we've already discussed my issues with shame and crushes/romance etc, he is well aware of all that and the history

Thank you for the articles stopdog; this first one in the list is unbearably condescending.

I don't think a client who feels jealous of another client is "playing a game," and I think it's bizarre and lacking in compassion for a therapist to ascribe such negative motives to a client.

I think that many of us fear that if our T has clients who are more entertaining, pretty, interesting, or "good at therapy," then our T will be less interested in us. If that's the case, we fear we may not be listened to, cared for, or fully seen, because we pale in comparison to other clients. I think that's a much more reasonable interpretation, personally. There is also, often, a desire to be special in some way to the therapist, and when we see other clients who seem like they might be special to our T, that seems to lessen the chances that we are, and that's painful.

Appreciate the articles SD. [ETA: Not saying you endorsed them, either.] Just vehemently disagree with that first one.

Well he's on his trip and my jealousy is through the roof already. I'm not sure there's any good way to manage this when mu esteem is already crap and I have no one to really talk to or hang with but my crappy family or online friends

I wish I could just sleep the weekend away and shut my mind off.

DP,

Through my therapy, I've come to realize that when other people are perceiving that we're expressing one emotion, and we're SUPER ADAMANT that we are NOT expressing that emotion, that that typically means we have cut that part of our self off -- exiled it -- amputated it.

I would challenge you to be curious about why so many of us are saying "we are seeing you express romantic feelings" when you are so adamant that you are not. Your intense emotional reaction to people suggesting that you have romantic feelings for your therapist is something I'd encourage you to be curious about.

What would it mean to you about yourself if you did have those feelings about him?

What thoughts and beliefs does the idea of having romantic feelings (about him or anyone) bring up for you?

Also, I'd point out that the things you say about your therapist -- that he doesn't care or think about you, etc. -- if this is this man's character, why would you want someone like that to be a close personal friend?

Again, things to be curious about.

See, this is why some people here try to challenge you, I think. You feel intensely jealous of your Ts social life and connections but you often say you don't want real life friends, romance etc for yourself.

I'm not jealous of his social life. I'm jealous of ppl who are in it. I like being around him. I dont care about meeting ppl who arent him. I know lots of ppl witj social lives. Good for them i say. Dont care at all. I just wanna be in his.

First off... ask my best friend. Ive been convinced many tines she hates me and doesn't care so yep id be ok with it. I get this way often with anxiety.

Second...i would be ill about feeling that for anyone. I dont like the idea of a relationship like that. I have admitted on here and to him that i love him. This is new for me. Something I've never felt for ppl before other than whej i was young and thought i had to love my family

Love doesnt mean sex or romance. Deeply carimg. Having emotions etc. I react to him exactky as i do with my dogs. I surly dont have romance feelings for them

One page before you said you had a social life (BFF, online friends) and then a few comments later you say that it sucks that you don't really have anybody to hang out while your therapist is away. What always strikes me with your posts is they're always full of contradictions. People encourage you (such as Xynesthesia) to look at what your attachment to your therapist actually means and you refuse to do that. You don't want to go deeper, to the meaning behind your obsession with your therapist. I think it's denial. Denial that you in fact (like every human being) want connections. Real ones, not a constricted one like in therapy. Which is absolutely normal and human. I understand that you don't want to hear what I have to say. But I and others are simply pointing out the stuff we pick up from your posts. If you don't want to hear it, that's fine. I won't make another comment and I won't try to convince you any further. Good luck.

I get what you are saying. Somedays it is nice to hang but i also dont have ppl i really connect to. I just settle and most days i 100% want nothing to do with ppl. Solitude is my fav way to unwind.

I just want to be part if his life beyond the office. I dont think its a crime to want that. To envy ppl who get him that way
When you connect with someone it just sucks when you cant be like so hey lets hang.

Anyway. Doesnt help much. Im happy he's having fun and all. Just hate i can never have fun with him.

Since we are all taking a stab at it - or the OP!

I think these are "just" feelings of abandonment, happening in the transference, as they should. DP has referred a couple of times to a sibling with health issues. Often the "healthy" sibling is neglected because the unhealthy sibling NEEDS so much more attention. So there is a lot of guilt and all kinds of negative stuff associated with having even NORMAL needs - for attention, for love, etc.

So instead of harassing the OP about her crush or not on t, i think we should be harassing her on where these feelings come from in her past. Ok, kidding! Not harassing! ENCOURAGING. Supporting.

Boy theres a freudian in every bunch and yeah its usually me. Sorry!

Thats sort of true but ive been his caregiver since i was young. He hasnt gotten much attention either beyond me. My parents aren't fond of either of us

T already knows all this though. Nothing new there

You seem to want to connect to people here most if not every day- what is the difference between people on the internet and people in person?

Okay, but how do YOU feel about it? Do you see being his caretaker interfering with your future possible romantic plans? For example, i believed if i were to get married again (before my mother died), my husband would have to be willing to have her live with us. When i first met my current t, that kinda hit me in the face. But it showed me i had to break with my mother first, before i could ever be a partner to t. So there was a pre-problem.

Im asking if there is a similar pre-problem for you. Because we have the exact same after-problem of how to get our ts to include us in their lives, dont we?

It doesnt matter if t "knows" about it. If he has a place for you in his life, then you no longer have a pre-problem in your mind. So you are concentrating on the after-problem. But i really think its the pre-problem that is a problem. You feel counted out because of it. I dont think thats true. I do admit its scary.

It sucks, we talk about it often but right now there is no option, every job interview I get never leads anywhere, I still try but i cant give up this job without something new

i never want a romantic relationship, i have massive issues with intimacy etc, it would not be something i want. it would be great to live my own life for once but dont see that happening any time soon. part of why im so depressed is feeling stuck.

Just wanted to say that I completely get that this is not a romantic thing for you. Sounds more like you just want your safe, caring, non-judgmental t to fill some of your unmet needs that probably stem from your wounded inner child? Maybe you view him as your saving grace caregiver? Like, if you had him in your life personally, you were in his, all of your pain and problems would go away and life would be "great." I don't know. But I do understand the intense longing for t to take care of you at a primal level.

Wish I had advice for you to make it not so painful.

Well, there was a Bazooka Joe bubblegum comic that stuck (sic) in my mind.
A guy is looking on the street,
another says what are you doing?
First guy says, i lost a quarter.
2nd guy: here on main street?
1st guy: no, i lost it on Cross street.
2nd guy: then why are you looking on Main street?
1st guy: The light is better here.

It seems like the combination of intense connection and mutual sharing with the lack of typical therapy boundaries would be extremely stressful. You feel close to him in a friend-like way but then he still retains "therapist" power (e.g., he determines when and how much you see him, he can set whatever rules he wants around outside contact, etc). I can see why you would want to ditch the therapy setup and just be friends instead. Without the typical therapy structure where it's all about your needs and your issues and him working hard to help you, he's sort of having his cake and eating it too, getting friend-like interactions with you and also getting paid for his time.

I think the unconventional setup might be what's so destabilizing for you right now. All the unmet needs to have good, supportive people in your life are coming to the surface, but he can't help direct those needs in a productive way because he's soaking up the friend energy for himself. Even as I'm writing this I know you'll disagree because there isn't anybody else in the world you want to spend time with, but I wish you had a more conventional T who could help you see yourself and your relationships more clearly. Clearly this relationship is causing you a lot of distress (even though it's felt very good at times too), and I don't think he's doing you a lot of favors by leading you on with his flimsy boundaries. It sucks how down you are on yourself right now, and a good T should be there to help you work through it, rather than making you doubt whether you can or should bring it to him.

Em

No i agree with you. Lots of sense in your post.

I really have a lot of empathy for where you're at. I would love to forge my T's signature on some adoption paperwork and move into her spare bedroom as her new kid. Her firm boundaries and her clinical skills in digging into my needs and helping me get them met in realistic ways are the only things that makes my intense feelings manageable. Otherwise I would be completely overwhelmed all the time.

DP have you ever felt romantic feelings?

Do you know what romantic feelings feel like?

I wholly get that you do not want a romantic relationship. Not with this T, not with anyone. I get that. And I'm not saying you do.

But I challenge you on feeling towards your T "the way you feel towards your dogs." I don't think that's possible, because your T is not a dog, and the complexity of your feelings towards him cannot be that simple. Case in point: the jealousy you are experiencing. That's not something you'd feel towards your dogs, because you'd never encounter a situation like this with your dogs.

I use the word romantic, but the truth is that what I'd GUESS (and just a guess!) you feel towards your T is feelings that don't really fit a specific classification. They have traits of romantic feelings and traits of "he's my caretaker/paternal/big brother" feelings and traits of "best friend/peer." You feel them with life-or-death intensity (which is the degree to which we feel things like this as children because our lives truly depend on our caretakers).

It all makes SENSE to me. It's not something to be ashamed of, it's not something you're doing wrong. It's new to you, as you say, and that's scary and painful, but really, truly, it's OK.

And I"m not bringing any of this stuff up to confront you, but I feel you're taking it confrontationally. I'm bringing it up to say "be curious about it" because this is the work of therapy: this, right here, that you are experiencing. The intense feelings, the jealousy, all of it -- this is where the work is done, this is what the work is done on and with -- be curious...even while you suffer, be curious about the suffering.

Can I just add to TMC's post, that work is going to be hard. But if you can manage to talk about these feelings with your therapist, you're going to come out on the other end better for it.

Tmc

Nope I never have. Its alot of stuff I'm not sure of yes. Most my life I intentionally keep people distant.

While I get what your saying and yes its worth looking at deeper or trying to sort, i do wanna explain

No I've not been jealous of my dogs other than their good looks lol.... I've struggled with jealousy in general my whole life. Esp with women. My t knows this but we never really dug into it. It's never been this strong that i remember though no. Its why its frustrating because i feel crazy and like there's no way out.

As in comparison to my dogs. Its a huge compliment to him really. My dogs have been my life for years. Before them my cats. I relate so much more to animals than people. My dogs literally kept me alive on the days I wanted to die most. They gave me happiness. Hope. A purpose. Not judgement. Listening to my nonsense. Theu were my reason for getting up each day. Not saying my t is all that but that intesnse high feelings i have for tjem is compared to this.

Also side note. I say dogs out if habit. One died in fall. So only 1 now but I still think of the other daily

Anyway good reply. Lots to think of. Thanks for writing it kindly too

Excellent post