Advice on jealousy

I dont know how you love your T, but I believe you when you say you do. It is a horrible feeling to be shut off from someone you love, especially when they are then who left for a little while.

Love between adults often does include sex and romance . Sex can be a form of a heart- to- heart -talk that is meaningful, not full of shame, simple and not complicated.

I love my dogs profoundly too. There is a wonder in love between member of two different species, but dogs talk without words and humans talk with words. The texture and color of love for another human is different from that between a dog and a person ( but to me with loves are equally important).

It is pretty likely your T includes sex and/or romance in his conception love between adults( though of course we cannot know and shouldn't assume) . Even if you dont, the allowance that he might still has to get factored in to the dynamic.

People are so different- which is part of why I love people. I would be relieved to discover I am attracted to my T or in love with him, bc I am familiar with these feelings. Instead I have a huge big bad time with why I am afraid/suspicious of my T and preoccupied with that whenever we talk about intimate things, when I know he is trustworthy, intelligent,and kind. That makes me feel defective, damaged etc. I am terrified of therapy 50 percent of the time- how crazy is that?

Wherever you are, that's where you are- I try to say that line over and over to myself .

Jealous is painful place, but if it is where you are, it is where you are, and it is a conversation with yourself that has important things to say/reveal.

SE--

I've never had so much as a date in my life so surely love does not mean those things and for him it most certainly does based on past reactions to things... which has me a bit uneasy going forward in some aspects. He said he was glad I used the comparison to my dogs for context so he could understand and it's ok. I said I didn't want him thinking sexual or romance and he said "Yes, if it was, I'd be concerned" so I knew then that's where his mind goes... and while I'm not there and not sure I'd ever be, maybe I'm asexual or something idk but that sort of stuff isn't really me, but I'm truly scared if it ever did get to that point now, and I'd likely ghost him instead of speak up.

As for the dog comparison its really hard to explain but if you knew me you would say, holy cow, he just got one hell of a compliment. My dogs (well dog as I'm down to 1) are literally my world, I don't connect well to people and I'd found a great comfort and love in having them in my life. My dog who passed away saved me from ending my life in my teens, he gave me a purpose, he gave me hope. They both gave me reasons to get up each day when i just wanted to lay there and cry instead. Losing my dog has really changed me and all these months later I still feel so lost in life. No human has ever meant this much to me that I'd put them "up there" with the dogs in my life. It just makes me feel insane that this human has "limited' care, if any for me. I can't help it though, somehow this just happened. Its confusing to me but I'm trying to learn to accept it.

Jealousy for me as been a part of my life forever. Always with women only, this is the first time I'm jealous of the men as well, but still moreso the women, I think it's something to do with feeling inferior or less than because all this jealous has done and has always done in the past has made me feel worthless

I don't think it's worth saying how bad this jealous has gotten in therapy, it seems there is no real cure for it. I don't wanna come off creepy or anything either so I'll just keep it to myself. He knows I have jealous issues but not this bad.

You could never come off as creepy. Your plight is so relatable and human. You have so much with which to deal at one time; Exploring your own feelings and their limits while trying to suss out his presumptions and heed his warning line. Complicated situation - and maybe not completely therapy in the sense of your T being 100percent safe for you(?). What does your jealousy say? What is its flip side? Sometimes I want my session to go on forever, and be life. I dont want it to end.

I don't think that the way you describe your dogs existing to make your life meaningful would make a person feel very comfortable, to be honest. It's a lot of pressure and not realistic. No one measures up to the loyalty and love of animals, in my opinion. When I started with my therapist, it was on the heels of equine therapy and she said right up front she could not match what the horses offered. We laughed, but it was true.

I hope you can get to a place of seeing your therapist on a more human scale. I remember my therapist saying that she doesn't know any therapist who likes to be obsessed about. I think it makes people uncomfortable to be made out as an all important figure, an object in a sense.

Well he wasn't weirded out by it... and i think you're reading more into it than intended. I'm not saying he is my world etc... I was trying to explain to SE how my dogs could be THAT important to someone... of course he's human, I've known that, I've seen him be very human, we talk about a lot of things that show he isn't perfect. I'm not dumb.

I am merely saying I love him in a way I love my dogs.... in other words, not sexual, not romantic but something more, like a close friend/family. He's fine with it and understands it.

Do you think that this intense jealousy is related to the fact that you are imagining your feelings for and the relationship with your T akin to that with your dogs? Of course not expecting the same from the T consciously, but on some more primal unconscious level? I mean, your feelings may be similar, but there is no way the T could return it in a similar forms your dogs do, with that kind of unconditional, exclusive bonding and dependency. But even animals can show preferences and bias, for example dogs and cats living in a household with more than one people often develop closer bonds with one/some people than with others, and it is not even always proportional to who cares for them the most or most regularly.

I actually think that some people, including some Ts, do like to be obsessed about. May sometimes be why a professional has bad boundaries and promotes bonding that is inappropriate to the situation. But it does not mean they will ever return the obsession with that person - I think it's more typical for those kinds of people to just seek general attention/admiration from anyone who gives it and they can switch between and replace the sources with relative ease. That is not friendship, it is attention seeking and often showering the other with inappropriate quality and quantity of attention for a while with the primary purpose of getting it for themselves.

ok realize this "obsessive" thoughts its part of my OCD and anxiety. its THOUGHTS, I'm not actually acting obsessive with him at all, i barely even speak to him outside of sessions and I'm very quiet and polite in session. i know my boundaries and id never cross them, i respect him very much, i can't help how my mind works. at times the thoughts become obsessive but its not always that way.

idk why it is, I'm so confused and my head hurts, the bottom line is there is no cure for the jealousy anyway, so its something i have to live with. luckily I've dealt it with it for many many years and I'm used to it. I'm not sure people hear the "I'm not good enough and I'm worthless" aspect of my jealously but thats what its always felt like in my life and still does. its not a raging anger or wishing ill of others etc.

i don't wanna keep getting into my feelings and what they are and if its understood by others about my dogs etc, i wrote out many examples for him and explained why its similar feeling to me, he gets it, he isn't weirded out, thats the bottom line.

My brother used to tell me that i had unresolved Oedipal feelings, which totally used to gross me out. That implied my development halted at age 6. Well, i fooled him, my development halted MUCH earlier than that, as i suspect yours did too, the way you describe your parents not having much to do with you, and how you describe your feelings for your dogs, and your purity of feeling - longing, really - for your t.

I found David Wallin's book on Attachment very helpful. Honestly i didnt even know family relationships were supposed to be like that. If you look at my old posts, you would see i went thru a long period of longing for my t. I wanted him to take me home on the weekends and carry me around in a snugli like while he mowed the lawn - never mind that i weigh twice as much as he does.

Its sounds so far like your t gets whats going on and is handling it well. And you are making excellent use of your resources

Eta - OP, we crossposted

Thanks--I just want to be clear that I wasn't saying there are no therapists who like to be obsessed about, just that my therapist said she doesn't know any, as in she doesn't associate with therapists who are like that, although she's indicated she gets concerned about the things she hears from people at conferences.

A therapist can do a lot to help mitigate these kinds of feelings in clients by not blurring the relationship, unless they are the kind you describe above. I don't think I've ever seen that turn out well, although there have been a couple posters over the years who report success with that kind of approach, but they still seemed really fixated on the therapist. It's such a risky thing, therapy. So many pitfalls and the client is the one who suffers if it goes wrong.

DP... I think either you've given up too easily or you need to find the right therapist. You stayed that there is no cure for your jealousy that you can't change your I'm not good enough thoughts, that is wrong.

I have many similar thoughts and many worse once I call them my Twisted Brain thoughts. They are a result of my upbringing am I serapis is working diligent with me to help change them and make them stop because they control my life.

This is done through CBT and DBT and mindfulness. It is a lot of hard work and it takes practice but I'm finally finally starting to whittle away at the edges of my Twisted Brain.

That is what I mean when I tell people it is abuse in my mind if a therapist just continues to see a client for years on end because that client just wants to be with them as a friend without providing them the tools to improve their mental situation. There is nothing wrong with continuing to be in therapy as long as you're progressing and improving. I'm not saying you fall into this category I don't know but many people here if stated they're going to be in therapy Forever Until their therapist dies because they just like being with them. My opinion that is wrong from the therapist point.

I'm so grateful to have found the therapist I have he has great boundaries he specializes in everything I need with trauma and DID. And what's most important to me is he does not want me to be in therapy any longer then I need to be. He is not trying to push me out now he knows we have years of work ahead of us but he does do a therapy goal contract each year. In the contract it states that if you've not been any progress within the past year he will need to refer you out to someone who can better help you with your problems. I wholeheartedly agree with that.

Again I'm not saying you belong in this category but what I am saying is your therapist should be able to help you with those thoughts help change them to help you handle life better. You should never just accept it as fact that there's nothing that can be done you should never have to go through life feeling worthless. That is your therapist job to help you with.

I think I just mean there's not been much advice on how to deal so it seems cureless. He knows I struggle with it but we've barely discussed it. He has said he doesn't think cbt or dbt will work for me. He's given a few papers from both but thats it. He says because I hate reading they wont be very helpful ways for me.

I've gone through over 30 yrs feeling not good enough and worthless
Basically accepted it as part of who I am.

It seems like your T should at least be trying to work on that with you. There are ways to address it besides CBT or DBT. And I'm pretty sure CBT can be done without lots of reading? I feel like my current T is helping me with similar issues now (self-loathing, shame, low self-esteem, etc.)...when ex-T didn't help me much with them in 6 years.

Lt

Maybe so. It hasn't come up recently. I've been hiding my depression etc from everyone including him. He thinks I'm doing well so it's probably why he doesn't think its an issue

DP...I'm sorry to hear you feel hopeless with those thoughts. I'm here to advise there are things that can be done. You CAN feel better and improve your thoughts but it does take a lot of work from the client and the therapist. I have had extreme freak twisted thoughts my entire life. I also fight DID parts of me that constantly reinforce these sick thoughts. I am 55 yo and have thought this way my entire life. My T says I have an 8 lane superhighway of neurons tightly connected in my brain holding on to these thoughts so it will take awhile to start chipping away at them.

I have only been in therapy for little over a year now but with his constant help and dilgence AND my desire and hours invested in working on change I can finally say that I am starting to see some hope of change. It is small but it is starting and I know now it is possible.

To achieve this though your T, whoever you choose that to be has to do more than hand you some papers. I have an entire library of CBT and DBT books at home but I can't do it alone from a book. It takes face to face conversion. Back and forth feedback. The T has to slowly help you find thoughts that are even remotely believable. They have to listen to your thoughts of what is not believable and keep hashing it out until you both find something that works. This is the work of therapy. From what you have described in past posts it sounds like your T chooses to spend your time on friendly chat instead of finding ways to help you. I'm not an expert but I can hear my T saying "this is what is keeping you stuck."

There are other techniques used as well and not every session is spent doing this. I am not judging or telling you to do anything differently. I just want you to know that there are T who have the skills and belief that you are fixable.

You're right, DP, there hasn't been much advice. I'm sorry I didn't come up with any, but that doesn't mean there's no way out. I will say that you hit on something important with the link between jealousy and self worth. Maybe the one thing to be open to is the idea that dogs are good judges of people. Yours does not see you as worthless. So who is wrong here, you or your dogs?

Of course my dog doesn't. (1 has passed but in habit I still say dogs)

That's why I like dogs more than people though, they don't judge. He's just happy if I feed him and wanna walk him.

Then you are refusing to accept any other view about yourself, even your dog's.

Huh?? i've said my dogs don't see me as worthless. people do...... I'd happily accept otherwise. My T made me feel like I wasn't but now he has again.... and I've had people through out my life give me times they felt like I mattered but then they back tracked. I'm accepting what feels like reality. Obviously I'm in therapy for a reason. I don't have the answers or the ability to snap my fingers and fix my mind

I'm saying that you value your dogs over people, so why not value their opinion of you? I happen to think animals are better judges of people than people are. You asked for advice, but I don't think you want to see this in any other way. I get it. I have lived that hell. I wasn't asking you to snap your fingers and fix your mind. I was just trying to honestly show, based on your own values--dogs are better than people--that you are not worthless, that if you don't believe anyone else saying that, believe your dog. It's not a solution to your pain, but it's a starting point. Or, it could be.

Also...if your therapist thinks you're worthless, I would definitely leave that guy.

Hey DP--I know I am just a random online person, but I dont' think you are worthless or any other negative feeling you may have about yourself. I think it is a good thing that you have these feelings towards T...feeling is better than not feeling? At least that is the way it is supposed to be, I hear

I know you've said you haven't really gotten any advice, so I'm wondering what sort of advice would be helpful for you?

If you told me that you were distressed about feeling jealous and that it was bringing up questions about your self-worth and making you feel hopeless about ever feeling better, my advice would be to work it out with a therapist. A lot of us on here have long-term, deep-seated issues like that, and it is possible to make progress, although it can be difficult and take some time. I think you could try being more forthright with your T (if you believe he has the skills to help you) or find a different therapist to either supplement or replace your current therapist. Quite a few people around here have had good luck with consulting another T about concerns in their therapy, including people who ultimately decided to switch. I know seeing a new T would be scary, but there was a time not too long ago when you didn't know your current T yet either, right?

IDK if he does, my anxiety has convinced me of it. It's something we need to talk about when he's back.

As distressing as leaving this therapist sounds, he is not doing his job. And I'd go so far as to say he is doing damage.

I'd also encourage you to use your time in therapy to be honest about your struggles and your depression. No one can help you if you hide how you are really feeling from them.