Therapy ruptures

It might not entirely be you or the way you interact. I have talked to one therapist for at least 5 years now, and I don't think we have ever had one...or at least nothing that made me feel horrible. I've already had two with the guy I have only been seeing for three months. He's male, which matters because I have some issues with men. He also seems to "talk down" to me sometimes, which is a huge pet peeve of mine.

I read somewhere if you name your fears they have less power over you.
What are you afraid of Growly?

I think you're correct to an extent, but I also know things about myself that make me suspect that my lack of ruptures isn't entirely healthy - mostly the fact that I'm extremely avoidant and have an almost phobic fear of being let down.

I can understand that. I intensely dislike conflict. But I might intensely dislike bossy men more so that pushes me a little. I get pissed. The last rupture we had was really a little thing. I should have just told him at the time that it annoyed me, but I was afraid to, so I worried and obsessed about it for a week and then wrote him a three page paper basically apologizing for having to confront him on this. It was a way, way bigger deal for me than it was for him.

I think it is always a bigger deal for the client than the therapist. First - the client is paying and not getting what they are paying for/paying some stranger to piss them off. The therapist gets paid and is not upset by any of it.

For me, the first woman had about a 100% rupture rate. I never had an appointment with the woman without her ****ing something up because she refused to pay attention or listen to me. The only reason I could use her for my sick/dying/dead person was because even a therapist couldn't make that worse than it was and I could get her to just sit there and not talk.
The second one there have only been a few times where it was super blah - not so much the intense disappointment/rage at being duped or walking into the trap like with the first. The second did not really set traps like the first one did. Mostly it was just -blahish not anger.
But I believe I was pretty much the same with both of them - I think it was their personalities which account for the different experience - not mine.

Due to my upbringing I tend to internalize my disappointments and avoid all conflict. I always blame myself when I feel I am treated bad and will put up with a lot before I finally decide to say something.

Luckily my T asks me to fill out a 4 question survey about how I feel he is doing each session. It only takes a few seconds and I just have to put a dot on a line rating his performance for each question. This makes it easier for me to initiate my dissatisfaction early. If I rate him lower pne day he will always ask what he can do better.

When there is something I finally feel I need to say I will always write it down. I go into detail about what is upsetting me and why. I tey not to be judgmental and simply state the facts. If I have blame in the situation I will admit to it. Then I always explain how whatever it is makes me feel. I mention any similarities or ways it ties back to remonding me of previous traumas and abuse.

This method seems to work the best for me. It allows the T to get the entire picture before responding. If I try to say it aloud he tends to want to respond before he knows the whole story and is less likely to apoligize or want to compromise. After reading he will respond to each section and ask clarifying questions. In most cases he will apologize for his part and we diacuss how to change things for the future.

The last one was pretty bad and I really wanted yo quit. I ended up sending him that letter in an email the day before and specifically told him it was his choice to read before hand or not but I was doing so as to not put him on the spot in session.

First thing next session he gave a sincere apology for causing me to feel that way and he totally changed his approach from that day forward. I made an effort to let him know that his changes were helping and I was starting to trust him more.

On the other hand, I think we as clients always need to be willing to compromise as well. The purpose of therapy is for us to learn to deal with real life and relationships outside of the therapy bubble. I always tell my T I don't want him to go against his pri ciples or change what makes him comfortable or a proven technique just to please me. Obviously if our principles are not compatible at all then I need to find a new T. But sometimes what may be best is to help me develop the skill I need to deal with my expectations or to gently guide me into developing more realistic expectations.

Realisticly T are not supposed to be our friends, our parents, or provide unconditional love. They do need to help us learn the skills to obtain that from real life relarionships or to adjust our expectations accordingly. In my opinion any T willing to continue taking a client's money indefinitely while not providing the skills needed for separation is abusive. Sorry to be blunt but there are other occupations for paid frienships.

I'm not sure if this counts as a rupture or not because for about a year I decided to stop trying to convince my T that she was wrong. I'm sorry for repeating this for those who know it already.

T used to hold my hand for about a year or so when I asked. It started when a child part was scared, when we did IFS at every session. T said "if that's what that part needs to heal, then that's what we'll do. It was always comforting to me. After at least a year, one session I got em embarrassed for some reason and pulled my hand away. T said that it felt sexual to her. It was in the room, she said. That I have to get that from my husband, not her. I tried to say it wasn't true but she said we had to stop the handholding.

It's true another part was "in love with her" but holding her hand never felt sexual. Never! She shamed me and I was upset. Whenever I tried to explain, apparently she didn't believe me. Everything else was good in therapy so I accepted her decision even though she had told me she would never "take it away".

The rupture, if it was one, got resolved when we started doing somatic experiencing where some touch is allowed. T asked if she could touch my arm. I let her, but after that session I asked her if it was supposed to be for support, holding her hand felt much more supportive. She said okay, but each time she went over the specific reason we were doing it. I didn't want to get hurt again so I kept asking her to reassure me that she wasn't going to "take it away again." She said I didn't have to ask. I'm not sure when it stopped but it was gradual and didn't bother me. She told me what she was doing.

I needed to clear up the original rupture still. When I did, she apologized and said it was probably "her stuff, not mine." I think she was going through her divorce then. I brought it up a few times with her because I wanted to be sure she believed me that it didn't feel sexual. She also apologized for a mean comment about how I didn't get that from my husband. I know she knows she made a mistake with me. I asked her recently and she said she would handle that situation differently now.

I guess I still need to talk about that whole mess. My T is such a good person but she totally messed up. Yet now I realize she felt something in the room and her feelings were her feelings. She should have believed me, though. Or been more honest that SHE wasn't comfortable holding my hand anymore. I did forgive her! She's not perfect but is extremely compassionate and admitted her mistake.

I've only had misunderstandings with my T. I don't think we've had any ruptures. Usually she doesn't say something I want her to say. Or she talks about her clients. I've gotten really upset and have had breakdowns, but my T is always good about quickly resolving it.

I really hope it goes well tomorrow, Growly. I'm afraid I'm not really a fan of Kashi - I find it hard to see how much he hurts you with his confusing boundaries and excessive self-disclosure. But I know that you care about and appreciate him very much.

Like you, I find ruptures to be quite devastating. Especially with T1 - and I don't think he and I ever actually successfully repaired anything. I just repeatedly made myself sweep things under the rug because I couldn't bear the alternative. Until it all became too much anyway.

I think me and T just successfully repaired a rupture this evening though. He helped me by carefully listening and reflecting and adapting. He took my concerns seriously and he respected them. He shared his thoughts without being defensive or dismissive of me. I helped by being, in his words 'direct and honest'.

I promise, you will get through this, however it goes. It feels unbearable right now but it won't always be that way.

I’m afraid of going through life unloved. Is it t’s job to love me? No, but I need it to be there to do this kind of work.

You are probably not the only person here who thinks I’m unreasonable for needing to be loved by my therapist. I can’t do the work without it. Yes I have been in therapy a long time but with different therapists. I have moved accross the country many times for my career and my relationship with t always gave me the courage to move away from them. For me, the paradox is the more dependent they allow me to feel the more independent I become. They were never meant as substitutes for people in my own life. But I have a lot more work to do. It hurts when people begrudge me the one caring relationship that I have.

T and I have had 2 ruptures. Both times it had to do with a misunderstanding in emails. In both cases she responded in a way that triggered my "hot buttons". One was I thought she thought I was a bad parent who wouldn't do everything possible to protect my kids. The other time was abandonment issues and that she was pushing me away. The first time I just said what she wrote hurt and changed the subject. It took me a while to get over it. The second time we briefly discussed it in session and then I sent her a long email telling everything. The next couple of sessions we discussed it in detail and she repeatedly assured me ahe is there and will be there and she is not pushing me away. It helped a lot.

((((GC))))

I agree with rr -- I think Kashi will do his best to pull you back when you go in. Double down on the charm, attempt to be vulnerable and pull on your heart-strings etc. I'm not sure that'll be the best thing though.

But, to answer your questions -- I think my rupture rate is rather ridiculously high. I seem to have one every couple of weeks. Some of them are upsetting enough that yes, I find it hard to sleep, lose my appetite and so on (Blondie though, blithely continues to go about her life). That's not a reflection of therapy for me though -- I tend to get really upset no matter who I'm rupturing with (even mere work acquaintances).

How to get out of it? I don't know. These days, I tend to try to force myself to recall all the stuff Blondie's done for me -- above and beyond kinda thing -- and then sorta ask myself if I want to continue to make a fuss in light of all that. Trouble with that sort of thinking for me is that sooner or later, something else upsets me and the process needs to start all over again.

But, that's also kinda how she thinks about it -- recently, when I was mad at her and told her "I'm upset but still grateful for all that you've done for me", she responded tartly with "You don't sound grateful". And, more recently, she got rather pissy that I got pissy with her right on the day that she got back from her vacation -- she went "Oh, here we go again and I was actually looking forward to seeing you". So, she's also not great at dealing with (even after all this while) my being upset.

And, it also doesn't help that I'm convinced that she's done most of the above-and-beyond stuff not because she's really wanted to, but out of some sense of feeling coerced (although yes, technically she could get rid of me as a client but....) and out of a sense of feeling like she's got to constantly "manage" me or I'll explode.

So, long story short -- I get upset; I rage a bit; I think about it some; come back and talk about how I was feeling; she listens and attempts to offer some apology or something and throws in a passive-aggressive jab or two at me; we move on. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I've thought about this thread today, and don't think I've had any real ruptures with my T. There have been times I've left super angry and not understanding why. I usually e-mail T after that session and let her know I was angry, and I think part of me knew deep down it was some sort of misattunement in the session, but I am WAY too avoidant to actually ever tell her that, so I blame myself.

But besides those minor misattunements (and I think she picks up on my non-confrontation, because she has apologized for taking it a certain way, or like this week, was curious on why I felt so bad after session, adn what do I think happened?)

Also, I never make eye contact, curl up in a ball every session and generally avoid attachment at all costs--so it may be harder for me to engage and probably get hurt in the process.

We have a small tear I think. Earlier today I e-mailed him a needle and thread, as well as a description of the nature of the tear and where it could be found.



Hopefully, the tear will be fixed by next session.

I hope I wasn't too short in my email - I wanted to say something about the tear's tearing, how it got from a small weakness to a bigger one because we both kept pulling on either side. And the harder the one pulled, the harder the other pulled, so the weakness became a tear.
But I didn't say that, because the email could be considered long already - I've sent longer ones in the past, but I think he's been busy, so I don't want to give him extra words to read. I would if they were necessary, but if they are not..

Maybe he won't use the tread to stitch the fabric together, but fixate it in the ground somehow so that neither of us can pull that hard again without realizing it, at least for a session or two.

I think that would be the nicest.

A follow up. Tonight there wasn’t any defensiveness or passive aggressive bs. But a lot of vulnerability on t’s part. He did not make the session about him rather he recognized where his isssues might butt up against mine and cause conflict. It is hard for me to describe what changed exactly. My list /journal of thoughts and ideas really helped frame the conversation. No persuasion just emotional honesty. I believe that he cares. I just think he takes some of my issues too personally at times. I see him again tomorrow as today was an emergency session. I feel so much better and so relieved. Not perfect but on the right path.

Growly... I'm glad it went well, better than mine... but then again, I didn't say much. He thinks its all ok I'm sure.

I am glad you got 2 in a row. I wish I had asked for 2 next week, sigh... hopefully I'll be ok until Thur

Hopefully tomorrow goes even better for you

Ruptures I’m going through them myself into the point where yep I called another therapist to see if I could possibly switc but naturally they are booked for awhile so I got to deal with her for a bit. I called her last night left a voicemail saying I was feeling some bad side effects could she call me back and I said thank you!! T calls me back today naturally I’m grabbing food so I miss her call and I get a VM saying I missed you please call me back at your earliest convenience thanks! I call her back and normally and I do mean normally she doesn’t answer phone it goes straight to VM and she winds up calling me when the office closes or sometimes later I get the shocker when she actually picks up the phone!! I say I’m having trouble sleeping and the last thing I need is a sleeping pill I added and she said it is normal side effect but please push through and we will talk soon. I overthink everything but her voice seemed so rapid like I need to get off the phone with you but again I overthink everything and I never know about her so who knows.

I didn't have a clue how to work through what were, I think, the results of my last T's FOO issues, too. And she never went there much. And if she had, I might have resented it in "my" time. . .but. . .Ultimately, doesn't matter, the therapy failed for me.

I'm glad you have found some things that worked for you. The world is a complicated place. It needs therapy and therapists that work, I think. Maybe somebody can pick up client ideas as well as client complaints and make things better for everybody.

Thanks for posting!

I think t originally didn’t want to “make it about him” either but it turns out that information was key to understanding the conflict. If he had just said so this painful week wouldn’t have happened.

I’m sorry you went through this before too.

If anyone wants to know what I journaled to help gather my thoughts, it was organized roughly in this way-

How the rupture started as best as I can remember.
Describing my pain and what I experience while in it including physical sensations
Naming the helpful things t does to get me out of the downward spiral
Naming the things t says or does that are hurtful or destructive
A page of random thoughts like the cat dream I had during this conflict

I think writing things down and bringing it to therapy is helpful

I'm really glad your session went well, Growly. Hope tonight's does, too!

That's a great model, and I have experienced journaling to be helpful in similar ways, and I'm glad that you were able to make progress with your T.

Glad to hear that it's all better now, growly. One thing I wonder though: what does Kashi think about mixing his own stuff into your therapy so frequently in a way that confuses you and causes stress on you that you otherwise would not have? Then he pulls off the humble card (that can be just as much a manipulative tactic as passive aggression sometimes) and acts like everything is okay. I personally would try to confront him about these things and would not let him get away with everything - likely he will do it again in the future. Sorry about the somewhat negative tone about him, I did not want to say this at first but I think it is not bad too keep an eye on the larger picture.

Yeah, that worries me a bit, too