Bringing out preverbal memories

I haven’t read all of this thread. So please forgive me if I’m not helpful or “accurate”..

I wonder why you won’t forgive yourself

You don’t seem to me like a “terrible horrible person” who “should never be forgiven”

The very fact that you blame yourself so much indicates to me that you’re
probably a “good person” who is in distress..

Even some “normal parents” can make some mistakes which deeply impact a very young child. So if the parent is ... struggling .. (to put it politely).. harm can be done unintentionally.

I hope that some day you can forgive yourself...until then I (we) are here

OK--OCD is an obsessive thought disorder. If she were my T, I'd ask her directly about how EMDR can help with OCD. Already deciding that self-forgiveness is impossible seems like an OCD thought to me, more than a rational decision. It might help if you could be willing to "suspend disbelief": basically, accept that the thoughts exist, not trying to refute them or stop them directly, but also choose to not invest in them. Kind of like co-exist with them, like an unwelcome guest, but not engage them. It's not a permanent solution, but a way to buy yourself time (and maybe lessen distress) to let therapy approaches work.

Good post

It’s good to observe how others are “moving forward” in their lives

Btw I don’t know why my posts appear to attract so much negativity at times not from you

It sounds a lot like PTSD, and I believe EMDR is good for assisting with triggers even if you don't know what the source of these is. Back in my therapy 15 years ago, I worked on the triggers I had, and just kind of unchaining all the interconnected PTSDish reactions I had. I think that this could continue to work.

I wonder if you might find reading "The Body Keeps the Score" by Bessel van der Kolk helpful.

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Keeps-Sc..._&dpSrc=detail
I think this because it might be the case if your anxiety around these triggers could be lessened-- because I think that anxiety can sometimes be a preventative to understanding what the body is keeping the score of, as this was true for me-- you might be in a place where memories or a better understanding of your childhood and its effects might emerge.

I think if you focus on what hurts right now, which seems like it is in part the anxiety from your thoughts and triggers, and your fear that you might act on your thoughts, and your fear that you might not be able to know what might have caused all this, that might lead you in a helpful direction. I think that EMDR might be worth some more effort, or you might try other nontraditional therapies (body-based, see van der Kolk's books for how they have helped other people with trauma).

Back to the topic, I’m sending positive vibes

This thread is about pedophilic thoughts and the fact there is a genuine atttaction and I dont know where it comes from.

Oh ok ..I’m sorry I didn’t realise that..

Yes I already do the thought thing. Let it be not obsess over it. We are working on that as well as EMDR.

Yep thats why we are doing EMDR because she thinks some of my triggers are from abuse I cant remember. I have genuine attraction to children though. Im not sure that comes from anything other than being mental though.

I reread my last post and I think it's one of those times when the tone i was aiming for was lost in writing. It sounds like you might have read it as invalidating? Like you thought I was saying you were not abused? I'm actually not saying that.

I think a person's gut feeling, their spidey sense, that there was sexual abuse in their past is probably a good indicator that their was sexual abuse. (NB that's what I think, this isn't my field of study, and this isn't an evidence-based statement.)

To me, intrusive disturbing thoughts are not the same as a gut feeling. This is what I was trying to say in my last post.

Disturbing thoughts are like noise in my brain. I don't want to give them too much credence. A gut feeling is deeply-held knowledge that I may not yet understand cognitively. I am well-served by listening to my gut feelings. I read someone else describe her gut feelings as her "umbilical cord to God." This isn't my paradigm, but I think it captures well the essential rightness and protective nature of this inner wisdom and therefore the importance of attuning to it.

A good therapist can work through this kind of thing with you.

I just dont know. I just know that my world was turned upside down when I was 8. I started flicking my parents off, was extremely uncomfortable about sexual topics, told my dad I wanted to give him or*l, starting acting out sexually with dolls and animals. It just got worse as I got older. Humped my sister who was 3 and I was 11. These things were right after I had sexual exploration with other kids. I dont know.

I think the most important next step is to find an excellent therapist who is qualified and skilled at addressing trauma. There is obviously a lot here and I don't think you are well-served by having even the kindest, smartest, most well-intentioned people of the internet try to answer these questions with you or for you. All we can do is offer the observation that, based on your description of what she said, your current therapist seems not to be at the cutting edge of trauma psychotherapy.

Im never going to find a therapist that knows all about Ocd and trauma both. Am I? Also she is a trauma therapist isnt she. Isnt EMDR what trauma therapist do? Im so confused.

Yes and no. She may very well be highly qualified and experienced; we can't know one way or the other. Only you can determine that. I do feel like you're confused about her therapeutic intent as you've expressed it here. But I can also see the wisdom in using EMDR to lessen the intrusive and obsessive thoughts. Until that can be accomplished, I doubt any other trauma approaches would have much effect. I think it would be helpful to ask her very direct questions about her process, and keep asking until you have a clear understanding of how her process will help you.

You also mentioned that your attraction to children is genuine. I'm curious how you separate and determine what's a "genuine attraction" from an intrusive/obsessive thought? I would think the experiences of both would be powerful. It's common for sexualized (by any means) kids to act out; but I don't know how one could tell the difference in oneself between what's a "genuine" feeling vs an intrusive thought.


My understanding of untreated true compulsions is that the urge to act is overwhelming, yet you haven't acted on these feelings as an adult. I wonder if your T is thinking that if EMDR can break the cycle of the intrusive thoughts, it may make it possible to distinguish thoughts from attraction.

She is treating Ocd with other techniques. She is doing EMDR for some trauma memories I have. The ocd is just random triggers like impulse I am going to reach out and touch the dog sexually impulsively, some kid, my female counsleor, myself.( I think I may be gay and attracted to kids.) Then I have the attraction piece its a little different
I am attracted to them (kids and women, but with women its mainly mother figures) in an emotional way and look at there bodies in a sexual way. It can be kids of all ages but mainly young girls. No I havent acted but like I said that has been an extremely hard thing not to act on. I actually begged to be turned into the police because of my thoughts.

I'm confused because in post #49 it sounds as though your T isn't distinguishing between obtrusive thoughts and consequences of past abuse. And that she is using EMDR in a more general way, I suppose with the thought that its effects on one will involve the other. Either way, you need a clear understanding of the aims of her techniques.

ETA: FWIW, I've never heard of an account where a pedophile wanted anyone to stop them from offending. Some have expressed the wish that they didn't feel the attraction because of the personal consequences that occur after offending; but I've never seen an account of regret before offending, in the hopes of preventing offending. It leads me to believe that the capacity to feel regret before action may be an important distinction between a "confirmed" pedophile, and someone whose psychology can be changed.

What I was trying to say is I have some traumatic memories we are working on but they are not about sexual abuse. Other things like my aversion to bodily fluids she said it could be past sexual abuse or Ocd. Since I dont know where any of my triggers come from i think she suspects sexual abuse. I think there is alot about pedophilia we know. I just want answers to why I have these thoughts. I dont even know why I think she can tell me when in actuality no one even knows thecause of that. That is what she told me too. So idk.

I understand the feeling of wanting to know origins, to try to make sense of how you feel. But it seems to me that if that becomes the most important goalpost by which you judge if you succeed or fail, it's a misrepresentation of how therapy can be helpful, and needlessly self-punishing.

What is yoir suggestion I do? I dont understand how just focusing on therapy and not the cause helps me any.

It's impossible to go back in time and find a specific answer, but you may discover other bits of self-knowledge that are valuable in ways you can't imagine right now. We're far more complex than isolated instances of cause and effect. Can't the goal of living your life without the intrusive thoughts, without the compulsions, and free from the burden of self-hate be as worthy as finding out what brought you to this point in your life? Isn't it as worthy to focus on the future as the past?

I don't have any commentary on what you are or aren't.

But, since there does exist a pretty horrible stereotype around gayness and pedophilia, I just wanted to say that there is no notion of sexual orientation (as is usually thought of in terms of adult sexuality) when it comes to pedophilia -- as in, the root of pedophilia is considered related to power / powerlessness and that is the driving force (and not the seeming gender of the child / children).

Well that has nothing to do with me. Nothing about my attraction is about power. I think youbcan be a gay pedophile. I also believe there are different types of pedophiles. I am not sure what I am. I just know its not right.

Yes I just wanted to know before I die. That is a whole other topic though.

I appreciate that you are educating us through your thread on a topic and experience that most people would have been afraid to raise even anonymously in public. I can feel how distressing this is to you and understand why you need answers.

There is a school of thought that being attracted to anything (whether it is same sex, specific "types" (blonde, blue eyed), and children are part of this theory. The idea is that what turns us on sexually is hard wired into our neurology and may or may not be linked to any particular experience in childhood at all. Silly example, perhaps, but supposed one is into guys in prison (and you are a woman) but with the unfortunate end of conjugal visits, you will never be able to have the kind of sexual life that you want (or don't want, but still feel drawn to or obsessed with). (Those who choose careers or are otherwise celibate by choice probably fit here too).

I think people (and there are others out there with a drive but a desire not to act on it) can learn to live with the idea that they cannot have the sexual relationships they desire. That desire probably can't be controlled (although if prompted by CSA then healing would presumably change that). To me this feels kind of like how I can't change my past, but I can change my relationship-- how I think about it, how I react to it-- to my past. What has helped me is to feel more friendly towards my past (I used to just hate the kid who was abused and had all kinds of terrible judgements and beliefs about myself and how I supposedly could have changed all that). But once I was able to be friendlier with my past, my compassion towards myself increased, and I looked at the thing I used to hate from a different place. It did change things for me.

I don't know if this is helpful for you, but I wanted to share it in case there might be some version that might work for you. I do think it makes sense to continue to pursue the EMDR and the organic nature of the trauma you know you experienced. That might open up things in the future.

I suppose but I want to get clarity but what if I remember something I cant handle.