Students

This is very nicely put. I was going to say something similar, but couldn't articulate it.

There have been times in my therapy - when talking about trauma or something especially sensitive - when I would absolutely not want a stranger sitting in, and even the request would offend and upset me. But less intense sessions, when all we're discussing is some CBT skill or something, I would allow a student to sit in. Shadowing other professionals is, I think, an excellent way to be trained, and I would feel much better about seeing a T who had this training than one who, for instance, had only done mock sessions with other students.

My experience being on the observer/trainee side (for non-therapy medical encounters) is that it's indispensable for learning, AND that the patients who say yes when asked to allow a student in the room aren't just the ones who are unbothered by it, but also the people who for whatever reason feel least empowered to say no. Which really sucks. In a therapy relationship, I think it's unethical for the therapist to make that request if it's not in advance with plenty of time for the client to think about it, and the power differential/potential for the client to say yes because they think it will make the therapist happy/possible fear of saying no absolutely has to be acknowledged and discussed.

My (biased) opinion is that I'm pretty good at making people feel comfortable with me quickly, but no matter how respectful and personable and empathetic the student/trainee is, having another person in the room has the potential to change the interaction. And I really loathe that people who don't feel able to or allowed to say no are the ones who disproportionately bear the burden of putting up with students watching their appointments, performing their procedures, etc.

As uncomfortable as I am with men I would prefer they not assemble the team based on gender but instead who is the best in the given field.

The "team" I'm referring to are the anesthesiologists, techs, and nurses: everyone on staff has the same requisite skills. Only the surgeons are specialists and they are always chosen privately by the patients except in emergencies.

The surgical office here had a group of doctors that specialize in various parts of the body

As I said earlier, I'm referring to a hospital--not a surgical group practice. An OR--an operating room--utilizes various personnel besides the surgeon (who I've explained is always chosen by the patient except in an emergency situation). The personnel are employees of the hospital, though sometimes the anesthesiologist also belongs to a private practice. The "team" I'm referring to as being gender specific for female patients whenever possible consists of some variety of OR nurse, circulating nurse, one or more techs, maybe a med student observer. I'm sorry, but I don't know how to explain this any more clearly. Perhaps someone who works in a hospital can do so.

I am sorry I missed the part that the surgeon was a Male. I work in a hospital where the surgeons and anesthesiologists are not private practice. Yes it would be very easy to have a team that consists of all females if those two people where excluded. My area still ha a large majority of medical star (nurses, techs, and CNA's) being female where as the vast majority of Drs and anesthesiologists are male.

Well, I've not really had a choice in the matter regarding someone sitting in on a session. I walk in and there they sit. I suppose I am asked but by that time the door is closed and I feel stuck.

They have not been difficult experiences though. In fact, they have been rather beneficial.

Periodically my pdoc will turn to the student and ask their opinion or advise them on the interpretation of what I have said, etc. Thus it has been a learning experience for me too.

The worst situation I encountered was on one of the occasions I had ECT administered. They brought in a large group of students to ask me questions or be asked questions themselves of their teaching psychiatrist. Imagine my thinking when the teacher says, "Now do I have any volunteers to administer it?" (!!!!!) Thank goodness one immediately jumped to the front. It meant he was at least confident and not scared. If all had stayed quiet and the teacher had had to pick one would have been far more terrifying.

I've never had a psychiatrist or therapist ask me to participate in student training but I would say no.

For medical services, I used to always say yes when asked if a student could question me or sit in. I even let a new student who never touched a patient 'practice' eye exam procedures on me once. He was a friendly guy and they were very nice, so I didn't mind.

Since then, I've witnessed a senior clinician teach a student poor practices (not capturing an adequate history etc); another time, to disrespect my participation in decision making. So it's become somewhat triggering for me, so I've decided to no longer participate in any such thing. The trigger is feeling objectified.

What is really triggering is that many do pelvic exams on women who are under anesthetic without their consent.

Pelvic Exams On Anesthetized Women Without Consent: A Troubling And Outdated Practice

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...111/bioe.12441 (original article)

Beware of medical practice and ethics (lack of). Once too trusting, I've learned the hard way.

About the pelvic exams on unconscious women that's what I was thinking about when I wrote that medical students treat patients and especially female patients like guinea pigs to practice on. That horrifying practice is not restricted to the UK and the US btw. It's entirely unsurprising that doctors and medical students (males I sould add) think it's "no big deal". Of course they think that. I mean penetrating a woman's vagina without her consent is totally not rape guys!