I went full metal neurotic on my T. Being the mess that I am, I decided I needed reassurance that I wasn't a total f**up. My T, naturally, didn't answer me directly; instead she asked why it was important for me to know her opinion. Nevertheless, I persisted, asking a bit more directly. She hesitated again, then told me an anecdote about TFUism. I took the hint, and decided not to ask again.

Except I couldn't stop perseverating on it. I ruminated all week. It's like I had an unrelenting need to hear from my T that I wasn't a hot mess. So I brought it up again. This time, I asked her directly if I was broken. And there was silence. A long, awkward silence. A silence that was so long that I even started to laugh. And then cry.

And finally, she said that the idea of being broken was "my perception". And that her delay in response was because she was thinking about how to respond to "my perception" that I was broken. And that there was no way to know if I would ever get better.

Now, I'm in full blown neurotic meltdown. I can't stop thinking about it. Would it have been the worst thing in the world for my T to say that I'm not a total loser? And why do I have this insane need for reassurance?

I am so ashamed of myself. I'm a grown woman, and I'm literally begging my T to throw me a kibble of hope. Not just once, but three times. I'm pathetic. And obviously way too histrionic and dramatic.

I'm rethinking this whole therapy thing. Maybe I'm too neurotic for therapy?

[NP_Complete]

I don't think there's anything wrong with you for wanting to seek some reassurance from your therapist. I don't know why she's thinking so hard about how to respond to you. I wish more therapists weren't afraid of being more human in session. I have the feeling that she doesn't think you're a TFU. So why can't she just say that?

[feileacan]

What's wrong with being neurotic and begging and pathetic in therapy?

I get that it would be problematic if you would behaved this way with other people in your life but in therapy this is just normal because how else could you find out parts of you that are normally hidden? If your T is worth her salt then she does not think anything particular about it but just sees it as normal part of work.

For me this moments make me feel ashamed. My need for Ts 'something' wasn't met as I imagined. That disconnect between my 'neurotic - Ness and T's calmed response felt shaming and embarrassing. Like I'd been caught out wanting something.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by InTheStacks

Except I couldn't stop perseverating on it. I ruminated all week. It's like I had an unrelenting need to hear from my T that I wasn't a hot mess. So I brought it up again. This time, I asked her directly if I was broken. And there was silence. A long, awkward silence. A silence that was so long that I even started to laugh. And then cry.

And finally, she said that the idea of being broken was "my perception". And that her delay in response was because she was thinking about how to respond to "my perception" that I was broken. And that there was no way to know if I would ever get better.

I used to see myself as broken, would say in therapy I was broken. T responded that he would like to help me see it differently, but did not say "you are not broken" or "I can help you feel less broken." Because the truth of it is exactly what your T said, there is no way to know if this can get better. And telling you that you're not broken is just simple invalidation, as you are saying what you feel. There is no definition of what a broken person means, and no checklist to use to figure out how broken or unbroken anybody is.

Although lawyers are not known for their wisdom, I found some in Bryan Stevenson's book Just Mercy (a beautiful book by a civil rights attorney who has fought hard for the rights of criminal defendants, including those sentenced to die in prison for crimes committed when they were juveniles).

“We are all broken by something. We have all hurt someone and have been hurt. We all share the condition of brokenness even if our brokenness is not equivalent…The ways in which I have been hurt – and have hurt others – are different from the ways Jimmy Dill [wrongfully sentenced to death and executed] suffered and caused suffering. But our shared brokenness connected us.” (p. 289)

“I guess I’d always known but never fully considered that being broken is what makes us human. We all have our reasons. Sometimes we’re fractured by the choices we make; sometimes we’re shattered by things we would never have chosen. But our brokenness is also the source of our common humanity, the basis for our shared search for comfort, meaning, and healing. Our shared vulnerability and imperfection nurtures and sustains our capacity for compassion.” (p. 289)

“We have a choice. We can embrace our humanness, which means embracing our broken natures and the compassion that remains our best hope for healing. Or we can deny our brokenness, forswear compassion, and, as a result, deny our own humanity.” (p. 289)

Maybe it's worth exploring what being "broken" to you means with your T. Maybe she sees it like Stevenson does, as a question about being human and having some suffering from life that's painful.

But more broadly, it seems to me like you asked a question and she provided her answer, it just wasn't the answer that you wanted. I think all of us have scripts in mind when we interact with people-- I say/ask this, you are "supposed" to say that. But that's not a real relationship. And I don't think that's where healing in therapy comes from, getting your script on. I think therapy is about feeling safe enough to put down the script even for a few minutes to actually relate to the other person. For me, of course, not a universal requirement.

Perceptions are just that, what we think about ourselves. Not reality. But trying to argue against someone's perception, therapist or not, is a lose-lose game. You will believe the story you tell yourself until you are ready to see who you might truly be. To me, what she said to you is an invitation to do exactly that. Maybe part of the question is why you feel you should run away from that and be ashamed to engage in an inquiry where you might actually turn out to be different than what you think-- or, perhaps equally likely, who other people have told you that you are.

[Amedley71]

^^^^ THIS!!!!^^^^
There is so much wisdom in those words.
Being 'broken' isn't a bad thing. How you learn to live and learn from the experiences are what helps us heal.
Facing the fact you have broken pieces, as we all do, I would think this could be viewed more as a breakthrough, not a failure.
((((Hugs))))

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by InTheStacks

And finally, she said that the idea of being broken was "my perception". And that her delay in response was because she was thinking about how to respond to "my perception" that I was broken. And that there was no way to know if I would ever get better.

Are you assuming her last statement is absolute, that there’s no way to tell if you are ever going to not be a loser?

Because in context what she meant was there’s no way to tell if you will ever get past the perception of being a total loser. Not that you are one.

[here today]

I was definitely broken. And finding the lost pieces -- having them find each other? -- has definitely been a part of the journey for me. Anne's quote was so on point.

The other question -- whether or not you are a total f**up. If you "are", does that mean that people can't love and care about you? It did, for me, and I so tried very hard not to be a total f**up, only to succeed, unplanned, in being one on some horrendous occasions.

So -- does that mean that people can't love or care about me? Or that I can't be anything other than a total f**up on other occasions in my life? The jury is still out on those questions.

It's my perception that I was broken and a total f**up on occasions. And I believe that perception is accurate. Best I've got to go on. It's also my perception that the jury is still out on the questions above. The verdict will come in when it comes in. Your T can't predict it, either. Unless - her perception is her perception -- is she the jury on that? Have you made her your jury on that? Are you sure that's the jury you want?

You're OK -- that's my opinion. For what it is worth.

[Fuzzybear]

I also agree that our brokenness is the source of our common humanity

Everyone does have broken pieces, and this could be viewed as a breakthrough rather than shame inducing, labelling, perception of failure etc..

[Lrad123]

I hope this doesn’t sound too cliche, but have you heard of Kintsugi? It’s a Japanese artform that involves putting broken pottery peices back together with gold and is built on the idea that by embracing flaws and brokenness you create an even stronger more beautiful piece of art. It’s sort of a nice metaphor for healing ourselves and makes the brokenness seem not so bad.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by InTheStacks

And finally, she said that the idea of being broken was "my perception".

Not exactly profound.

I want Anne2.0 as my T. I want to borrow your brain and keep it in my pocket.

Thank you to all of you; this really helps.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by InTheStacks

I want Anne2.0 as my T. I want to borrow your brain and keep it in my pocket.

Haha. I would be a bad therapist, or at least a poor one, given my tendency to say what I think and the resulting pissed-offness that results. As a lawyer my job is to actually piss people off, so that career choice works for me.

[weaverbeaver]

I would like you as my t too!
My t is brutally honest at times and it’s very helpful most of the time. Yes, her honesty pisses me off but most of the time it’s refreshing.
I think most ts should be more honest about what they are thinking and feeling.

[unaluna]

Anne "Get your script on!"

InTheStacks in my opinion nobody is completely broken

[BudFox]

My goal should is to shed approval seeking, and being submerged in that kind of dynamic, whether in therapy or elsewhere, hardly seems healthy. Seems more likely to reinforce that tendency. It did in my case until I became miserable enough to go in the other direction.

Everything in therapy as rationalized and that is the danger in my opinion. Calling it "the work" or "a process" does not magically transform something dodgy into something healthy.

[Anne2.0]

I thought of something else my T said in the course of this issue of me feeling like I was broken, because I brought it up pretty often for awhile. It was prompted by some chronic pain that was making me feel broken too, and setting off trip wires of trauma related stuff I thought I'd resolved.

And he said that he'd witnessed many people improve (as he called it) relationship with their past, that he felt he had a different relationship to his past, and he didn't think I was different than most people.

I don't know why it's connected for me, but I think the distilled substance of me saying I was "broken" was just a basic question about self-- who have I been, who am I now, and who do I want to be. That this investigation into my self has been profoundly useful for me, and because my T encouraged me to see being broken as changeable rather than just reassuring me it would get better, I was able to explore this with an open mind. For me reassurance would have been an end point, but the somewhat uncomfortable place of unknowing encouraged me to move forward. So I guess I would say a lack of reassurance was an invitation to learn and talk more about it.

And I really dislike not knowing stuff. I work in a really small niche in a professional world (and have for 25+ years) where I have to be an expert. I love diving into research and figuring out what it means, I like facts and knowledge. As I look back on it, I see how a desire to learn more about myself and make sense of it really harnessed me into paying more attention to me rather than the things around me that were irritating.

From my perspective, the investigation into self has been very worthwhile. I think there's some cultural prescription against it that may be being modeled by our (as in U.S.) government. The party in power has been resisting the investigation into corruption on many levels, including defunding the ethics office, trying to interfere with say big inquiries in the past year or so. Some people, like politicians, just get all defensive about themselves, say they don't need to change or learn anything new about themselves or how they approach things. When I used to work in the juvenile abuse & neglect system, many accused parents used to defend their objectively terrible parenting (not saying that everyone accused was guilty) with denials and blaming of other people or the system (which is also terrible, but that doesn't really help you get your kids back). I'm not saying everybody needs to look at themselves or the only way to do that is through therapy, I just think that asking yourself this kind of large (resisting the impulse to say HUGE) question might be the beginning of something important, life changing, helpful. For me I would say that it brought me freedom.

[Anastasia~]

It sounded to me like the implicit question in asking your T if you are broken, is does she believe in you. Correct me if I am wrong. I think intellectual solutions ask you to define yourself, which seems to be where your T is coming from. I suspect that this is the end goal, but it is a long process and it doesn't sound like you are there yet. Emotionally, it sounds as if you are asking if your T believes in you, if she believes you can get better. I think those are valid questions. I do hope that you honor your feelings of being hurt by your T, that you accept that this is a part of you and that it is okay to feel however you feel. I hope you keep us updated, if that is what you want.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

From my perspective, the investigation into self has been very worthwhile. I think there's some cultural prescription against it that may be being modeled by our (as in U.S.) government. The party in power has been resisting the investigation into corruption on many levels, including defunding the ethics office, trying to interfere with say big inquiries in the past year or so. Some people, like politicians, just get all defensive about themselves, say they don't need to change or learn anything new about themselves or how they approach things.... I'm not saying everybody needs to look at themselves or the only way to do that is through therapy, I just think that asking yourself this kind of large (resisting the impulse to say HUGE) question might be the beginning of something important, life changing, helpful. For me I would say that it brought me freedom.

I hadn't thought about the exploration of self from a political perspective, but it struck a chord with me. The climate affects the pull of the tide. I remember when the studies came out about menstrual cycles realigning themselves in congruence with environmental variables. Similarly, I think the political climate in the US triggers the mood of We the People. I hear so many whispered fears of vulnerability after every decision or series of tweets.

I frequently serve as a consultant on capacity hearings to decide if patients with neurocognitive disorders are capable of making their own decision to live alone, or need a guardian or a higher level of care. After our last election, I threatened to declare my own mother incompetent and put her in a home. Heh heh! THAT will teach you for saying I was never going to amount to anything!

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by InTheStacks

I frequently serve as a consultant on capacity hearings to decide if patients with neurocognitive disorders are capable of making their own decision to live alone, or need a guardian or a higher level of care. After our last election, I threatened to declare my own mother incompetent and put her in a home. Heh heh! THAT will teach you for saying I was never going to amount to anything!

In thinking back on your original post about being "broken," it sounds like your mother was incompetent in understanding you. It sounds like you have a very interesting career and have indeed reached a high level of success in your chosen field. You have indeed amounted to something and I hope you see yourself through your own eyes.

I very much swooned at the idea of declaring one's own mother incompetent-- but you actually have the means and expertise to do so. Very cool. Thanks for sharing this bit about you and your work.

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I very much swooned at the idea of declaring one's own mother incompetent-- but you actually have the means and expertise to do so.

As much as I would LIKE to declare my mother incompetent, I only threaten to do so on special occasions. Like when she voted for Trump.

[Amyjay]

I guess I think we are all broken in some way. Some more so than others.

And yet we persist.

So I brought it up to my T today. But first, I spent some time thinking about exactly what it was that I was asking. As Anne2.0 suggested, I put down the script and just thought about the nature of therapy itself. What if I just embraced my brokenness? Who would we be, if we weren’t broken? Where would we develop empathy or compassion for others? And instead of feeling like a pathetic loser, I felt a bit empowered by that. And I thought about Lrad’s Kintsugi jar; with the beauty that can only come when we put together broken parts of ourselves.

And so we talked about vulnerability. And working through the hard stuff. And the questions that I want to explore.

And it was good. Contemplative. Comforting. And ultimately empowering.

Thank you all for your wisdom. And hugs. And for just hanging out here.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by InTheStacks

And it was good. Contemplative. Comforting. And ultimately empowering.

Sounds like a pretty incredible shift of progress and moving forward. I feel so lucky (though it's not all just about luck) to have found therapy empowering. To be able to use therapy as a way to change my life in the ways I wanted to.