2x a week questions

I don’t think putting up front that you want to try 2x a week as needy. It makes sense you want to try and work through this grief as fast as possible. I think a potential T would understand that.

I am glad you are avoidant too in the sense that it's nice to have someone who gets it

That's fine, if you don't feel those things, and it's not becoming too much of your life and works for you, then great. I was merely saying those are not things I wanna feel and that, I feel like initially asking for that, to me, could come off that way and for that, I wont do it.

There's nothing wrong with wanting attention.
I think you are confusing wanting attention with malingering.
Wanting attention is a normal human thing.
You DO want attention - you posted this thread so people would respond. That's attention.
You want a therapist to pay attention and listen to what you have to talk about.
I point those things out not because they are bad or wrong - they are not - but just because I think it's important to not demonize the need for attention. It's normal.

Well I'd have to keep looking cuz the 2 I've found are too busy for that stuff, it's also probably not a good idea until after surgery anyway. i'm already not even wanting session 2 with the first guy, so I will see how I feel Monday. My avoidant tendencies are kicking up in high gear.

I don't see a post as attention seeking, its a way for me to be social and talk about things, I seriously hate attention. I wont even ask for people to apply for cards at work because they announce over the loud speaker if a employee gets any. I would quit on the spot over that.

I HATE attention in the sense that, I like to blend in, I like to go unnoticed, I don't want to be someone people focus on. I am sorry to tell you in real life, this is 100% who I am. Being an avoidant kinda shows you I hate attention.

I don't want them to pay attention to me, actually I'd rather them sit and face the wall.... I just want ideas on how to stop it. Not attention, just help.

Regardless of what you choose to see or not see, posting something online on a public forum for others to read and reply to is, by definition, an act that is seeking the attention of other people.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

The way you talk about it kind of implies that you think you're better than other people because THEY all have needs and want attention, but not you.

Yet, you clearly wanted and still wish you had the attention of your ex-T. So, regardless of whatever you might choose to tell yourself...sorry, but you do have human needs, and one of them includes some other human attention.

Ya I'm not better than anyone, I'm **** compared to most but ok.... i'm just trying to explain how I view things and my needs as an avoidant, if In my mind, something comes off needy, I wont do it. I never said others cant...I just can't. I don't need to discuss why with you.

Anyway... this post thread can just fade because I've already decided against 2x a week since posting this initially. I am not even likely gonna do 2 sessions total with either. I don't wanna do this anymore, I just want my T. no one else.

Also you are confusing basic human needs with being needy. They are not the same. Wanting help because i don't know how to manage alone, asking for help, is not needy. It's just a need that comes up for most people. I personally don't think a new T wants to get an email from someone saying "I need 2x a week right now" that comes off needy to me... it doesn't mean its wrong, It just a feeling I hate, I wont do it.

FWIW, I’m also avoidant (perhaps fearful avoidant) and have just switched to 2x/week. I didn’t consider it for a long time even though it was offered to me because it felt shameful to be that needy. So I completely understand what you’re saying. I’ve since decided to do it anyway even though it feels uncomfortable and shameful and terrifying, really. But right now, my gut is telling me that I’m at a point in my life where I want to push myself outside of my comfort zone and just see what happens. I think it’s perfectly fine not to do that if it doesn’t feel right to you. Good luck with whatever you choose!

In avoident too.
But I'm also a "s-h-i-t or get off the pot" kinda person

Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say. I am really confused about it all right now, I don't even wanna go at all anymore. I only thought of 2x a week because it felt like a faster way to get rid of the pain... but it's unrealistic. So 2x a week might be good if I was going for more deep things but since I want to keep it short, weekly or bi week is probably best for me. Anything to maintain the most distance

*I'd like to clarify, if people go 2x a week, that itself isn't need, if it's truly a NEED for it... like the therapist/client agree.... as much as I'd never do something like that long term, for short term, I found it helpful when I lost my dog.
My point, that I obviously didn't make, was that I wouldn't do it in initially setting up with someone new, THAT to me, comes off "needy" and in my mind, that is not ok for me, so I wont do it. If a therapist suggested it after a session or two... that's different, because it then becomes more of a NEED... I guess if I do it initially it comes off as a want... and that is where my mind feels needy. Again, I'm not judging anyone else, I'm merely talking about myself and what does and doesn't work for me. I don't think I'm better than anyone, I actually think I'm the one person on earth that doesn't deserve love or happiness. I don't see how that can be considered "better than others" Everyone is better than me. I've always believed that.

that makes me sad 😔

My T said the same thing... and I think it's why he tried so hard to make me feel like I did matter and he did care, which I believed completely... but sadly no longer do. It's why even though I was fine saying I loved him, I would have instantly distrusted him if he had said he love me, I told him that. I said, please don't tell me if you do. I don't want to know

Ya there's tons of trauma in my life, it would take years to really work on and fix myself but I'm too against long term therapy now.

For what it's worth, for the longest time I told my T that I couldn't hear the word love from her because I wouldn't believe her. This was mostly in the context of reading children's books to me. I was so angry at books that said stuff about mother loving child or parent always loving child ... any of those types of things. I'd even go as far as put stickies over those words and change the with care about or think about. What helped was finding a book that said Mother loves Art (kids name). Not the mother saying I love you to the kid.

Now, sometimes she can read those words to me. She can confirm them when I say them. I don't think she's said them to me directly.

I still have moments of anger, rage, and disbelief at those words. I also can still get angry at her for caring about me.

For me, they are loaded words full of broken promises and concepts.

I'm glad it's been helpful to you some. I get how it can feel that way for sure.

For me, it's a genuine belief of not being worth love. It's like, not just him, it's anyone. My friend says she loves me, I laugh. We are not "close" in the same sense I was with T and I don't think we ever will. I keep very distant from her and her saying that makes it even more distant.

It's why I don't think I could ever date or anything, anyone said they loved me, I'd break up with them because It feels like pity or a lie.

I only believe my dog(s) love me... not humans. I don't believe it's possible. I'm not worth it. Never believed I was. I think it's perfectly believable for them to love others... like T loving his family or his ex. Or my friend loving her BF or mom. I don't think it's believable if I'm in the mix. Lots of issues there obviously but again Long term therapy is terrifying to me now. It's like intentionally jumping into a shark invested pool.

I wonder how that makes her feel?

Do you want to feel loved? Cause it seems like you do. Or you wouldn't be hurt over your ex-T walking away from you.

I'm avoidant so I understand, but after many years I formed the "earned secure-attachment". I also realized a lot of people loved me when I wasn't able and open to being love. I do regret not being open, because it also hurt those who loved me.

In some way, I hope you see, that the people on this forum care about you. Sure it might not be your definition of love, but certainly I see it as a loving action.

Sorry if I don't make sense- tbi fuzziness. You wouldn't believe the typos

I don't think she's too bothered by it. We are both similar in the keeping distance and not sharing emotions etc. She just shrugs it off and we go on laughing about something else. She knows I don't believe she will stick around, she always tells me I can't get rid of her that easily. I still don't believe she will stay. She will get sick of me, just like T did


As for wanting to be loved. I thought I did, but if love is at all similar to what I had with T, then no. Love brings hurt and pain and I've had enough of it. I remember once I wrote him some notes and one of them talked about how during the loss of my dog he made me feel loved at times. I wasn't sure how he would react but he said "Good" and smiled. I carried that with me for a few months. Everything changed when he left though. I think he was just happy that I felt it, even though it wasn't real. He wanted me to have an idea of what it might be like but I already know what real love is, it's what I get from my dogs.

Sadly... he had made me so happy and believing in myself so much. I actually thought for a while "Maybe I am a worth while person" but then he followed the others that I stupidly trusted in my past.... he left. He showed me it was all fake. All a lie. I don't matter and I never did. This is what I am gonna struggle deeply with in therapy because I don't think anything they say will make me believe otherwise again.

As for the care here... ya I know. I appreciate it. It's nice to be cared about sometimes. So thanks

DP, I have not read every post on this thread in detail but have read yours and have followed your evolution here because I find you and your experience quite interesting. The impression I got reading this one was that perhaps you jump a bit between extremes? Which is not a problem at all as far as posting here goes, this is a much better way to experience/process extremes than acting on all of the urges... but I would try to take a leap back and maybe re-read your posts and reflect before pursuing Ts further.

Speaking of the avoidant phenotype... I have tendencies, too, and had much more when I was younger. More the dismissive kind though - that is what tests give me and what I also identify with, the fearful does not hit home for me reading the apparently fearful avoidant members' posts here on PC - I never had those experiences with extreme, lasting and painful attachment to Ts many here describe. I have also shifted much more into the secure sphere over time/age/experience with relationships of all kinds, so I do not really consider myself currently avoidant. But I remember very well how it felt in my youth and how it drove my behavior/relationship patterns. I was prone to extremes between no attachment and rock-solid boundaries and strong desires/experiences of limitless bonding and merging with whom I considered the "right person" for me. I was lucky because quite a few of my boundary-dissolving experiences were very positive... most of them in fact, I only had one highly questionably and in many ways destructive relationship, but that was completely reciprocal as well, a mutual addiction. Interestingly, after that experience (~10 years ago was the middle of it) my relationship pattern took a turn for the worse for a while - I was looking for him everywhere and in everyone, projecting my fantasies on everything, anticipating it always, if not with awareness, then unconsciously seeking it on almost autopilot. It took me a few years after the initial "hit" and the subsequent projections for that pattern to finally dissipate for good, meaning that I do not get into extremes either emotionally (craving) or acting (messing up otherwise healthy relationships). I guess acting out that kind of mess with a T (who would have no bearings on my practical life and success) might have been a better alternative to messing with real relationships, and I did use therapy in that way a bit. It actually helped but was very unpleasant and took quite a long time, even after I ended those therapy experiences, for the urges to really vanish. I can happily report though that they have not come back and I have not had any significant desire to mess with my professional relationships or any other inappropriate/useless ways, for a couple years now. Sometimes mild desires but I am always so aware of what it is about and it is no longer anything beyond what I can easily consider amusement. Such a relief!

As for 2x therapy per week, I tried that on a few occasions and it did not give me any positive whatsoever. Did not decrease my obsession when I had those, did not increase my sense of bonding or comfort, nothing significant beyond just a little easing the anticipation I tended to have between sessions. It was a waste of time and energy in my case.

Anyhow, just wanted to share in case anything from my experience hits home for anyone here.

X

I for sure do have the extremes, T brought up the black/white thinking in his goodbye letter. Its something we discussed from time to time but never really worked on.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I like hearing other people's experiences. I'm glad you are doing better with everything.

I did do some research on short term therapy... and it says often times its 8-12 sessions so I may consider that max instead of 4 because this is bigger than expected for me. I also know I didn't even start to feel any bond with T until 3 months in so it should be enough time to get out before **** went down but in my case with T, he was already very "friend like" quite early on.... most T's aren't gonna do that so I would likely not bond with them.

We will see. I keep getting moments where I'm like "I can do this, I don't need therapy, I'll be ok" then I break down sobbing because something reminds me of him. I tried writing in my journal earlier and couldn't get far because I was crying so much. Thanks again for replying and sharing your experience.

I think you're in crisis right now so it's okay to go 2x a week. It's not needy.

Also it is OK to have needs and be needy and want attention from other people. You don't need to be ashamed of it or try to deny your needs.

Having needs is a normal human reaction. Everyone has needs. That's not the same as being needy.

Needy is something I don't like feeling or being at all and will back off at all costs if i start too. I'm not denying having needs. I'm not a robot

Not everyone is needy though.

I can often relate to your comments and I’m not sure if it’s because we are both avoidant or if it’s something else. Logically, I would also have no problem acknowledging that it is ok for people to have needs. On one level, though, I’d just prefer not to be one of those people and I suspect that part of my therapy right now might be about figuring that out and allowing myself to have needs. That part of therapy feels like a very uncomfortable free fall for me right now and I’m just trying to trust the process. I doubt either of us would be perceived by others as “needy” but the fear of it may possibly be holding me (not sure about you) back in some way.