[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Unfortunately, I relate to your take on human nature. Big hugs to you - it takes a whole lot of trauma and suffering to see the world this way, fellow survivor.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

Thank you. Hugging you back.

Yes, it does take a lot of trauma and suffering to see the world this way, but it also takes courage to be brutally honest with oneself. I've always tried to be honest with myself to the greatest extend possible about my own weaknesses, vulnerabilities and fears and to go into the darkest places inside myself, even when doing so touched the spots that brought a lot of shame and pain to the surface. Not many people can go through this process, but I can because I find it liberating and empowering. It hurts initially and then it brings me to the place where I can have a much greater acceptance of myself and others.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by missbella

I understand IDIMW entirely differently. I've observed what she discusses. Humans tend to ignore abuse, go against their bests interests, in order to maintain group affiliations. The "cult" phenomenon is widespread in relationships, in the workplace, in many group affiliations. I understand she's saying it can be extremely difficult to break off an affiliation, intimate or larger group, even when faced with overwhelming evidence it's in our best interests. That hesitancy to break away likely stems from our primal instincts when group cohesion was essential to survival.

I don't think that means going it alone always and forever. It means deciding when harm outweighs the affiliation. It can be extremely difficult, and it definitely applies when seeking help in therapy.

IDIMW, please feel free to correct my Cliff Notes.

You "get" me right. There is nothing to correct.

Breaking away from groups, communities, families, relationships that are abusive, oppressive or just stop us from our natural individual development is difficult, excruciatingly painful and often impossible because it goes against our primal fear of not being able to survive on both physical and psychological levels.

All attachments are difficult to dissolve, not only attachments to people, but to other things we have or do in life - money, a certain social status, work, hobbies, activism. We love certain things or love to engage in certain activities because it gives us life meaning and some sense of identity. After all. we don't want to live like robots not knowing what we live for and also who we are. We want to be able to answer those questions, otherwise life seems meaningless and not worth living.

There is nothing wrong with this natural tendency to attach, but if we strongly identify with what we are attached to then we kind of lose ourselves. Because what people call the "Self" has nothing to do with the artificially constructed identity that is just a product of our mind. To me, the Self has to do with the ability to access the joy that lies deeply in one's heart and never disappears no matter how many times we get hurt and betrayed and the ability to act from that place fearlessly and spontaneously in the moment. That Self is beyond trauma and hurt because it has nothing to do with our human persona that we show to the world and with our inner sense of ourselves.

Don't get me wrong. Human persona and human identity is important. After all, we live on earth, in this physical matrix and we depend on our environment for survival and we have to respect that. So, of course, it's important. It's just when the survival concerns become more important than a sense of freedom that only comes from the Self that is beyond any ego identity, than we are not really living, we are just "getting through" life..

Yes, we need people, yes, we need relationships, yes, we need communities, yes, we need groups and activities that give us meaning and sense of identity. But the attachments to all those things have to be loose enough for us to be able to move and change the environments, if the current environment or relationship or job or life style or current beliefs and attitudes are no longer conducive to our individual growth and prevent more joy from coming into our life. The snake sheds its skin when it grows because the old skin no longer fits the growing body. The growing body needs a new skin. The same with us. When we allow the natural growth to take place, we will inevitably change the way we live our life, the way we think, the way we relate to others, the way we behave, the things we are interested in..and, sometimes, we'd even move physically into a different place or neighborhood.

Therapy and therapists to me were just one of the changes I had to make to accommodate my growth. They were no longer matching who I had become and I had to leave them behind

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by blackocean

something that really unnerves me is that my therapist said he could tell I had trauma within the first 2 sessions, and that it was probably sexual trauma. He knew before I did but also this was well before I trusted him enough to tell him anything really, still very guarded and self protective. It wasn’t that he could see vulnerability vaguely but that he could guess the specific trauma even though I thought I was acting normally and not showing my true self. He just knew. From training ad experience. That power in the hands of an abuser who means to groom is so dangerous. An abuser with trust built in to his role since he is there to help, has devoted his public life to helping. A doctor. How do people not see that.

And i do remember him asking very early if I had sexual abuse. Multiple times. I kept saying no. I never considered it abuse, didnt seem like a big deal. I thought it was weird that he was asking that. Eventually of course it came out. But it was so intuitive and easy for him.

This reminds me of my own experience in therapy when I allowed myself to become vulnerable and to share a rather dark and shameful experience of being victimized at the age of 23, long before I was in any kind of therapy. I can't afford to share details here since my real identity is known. All I will say is that the way I was victimized could also be interpreted in different ways by different people. People, who accept the basic notion of inherent power imbalance in certain relationships, would definitively characterize it as abuse. Others would have a "different opinion". All my therapists, unfortunately, had a "different opinion" until I found one female therapist I saw very briefly, who completely validated my own sense of what it was.

This is not exactly what you are describing because in your case the therapist saw the problem where you saw none. My situation was the opposite. My Ts didn't acknowledge something as a problem, or that big a problem, when, in my view, it was an enormous problem, and so they never worked with me on that. But, in both cases, the Ts were completely off base, but, worst of all, they were convinced that they "knew" what the reality was. I am still feeling angry and hurt about this because such arrogant confidence in one's ability to know what the experience was for another human being leaves no room for any kind of exploration. If they told me it was their expert opinion, I wouldn't have been hurt as much. But they insisted that what they "knew" was a fact of reality.

[sarahsweets]

Originally Posted by Cheryl27

It's sad to see there is more debate on these types of threads then support. I myself am a survivor of mis treatment by professional 9 years ago i got badly terminated by them, still today im still struggiling. I can talk about it to my therapist however he has yet to help me have a stronger voice. It's difficult to get therapy for trauma done by therapist it's like they all protect each other. I truly hope pc becomes a supportive place for people like me who have been terribly hurt by therapist.

I can only speak for me and my participation in a recent thread. I got caught up in drama and self righteousness. I can't explain it because that is not who I am. I pride myself on being honest and empathetic and its like that went out the window. I am also not easily influenced by people I am pretty sure and solid on my own moral code and feelings. For some unknown reason I just took some bait and ran with it. Its almost like going along with the bullies. while you arent actively bullying like the main bullies, you are complicit by not distancing yourself and sticking up for the underdog or the person in pain. I hope I do not experience such a lapse in judgement again because it truly isnt who I am. I think coming clean, admitting you are wrong and being forgiven is a beautiful thing and I am grateful that forgiveness has been granted to me.

[missbella]

Harm in therapy, iatrogenesis, is an extremely provocative topic for the profession as witnessed by the death of literature around it. Critics like the late David Smail and Tana Dineen reported brutal treatment by their peers. When I had the temerity to tell a therapy ethics book professor that her publication ridiculed clients, none other than an APA president jumped in to invalidate my review with ad hominem chastening.

I think there are a number of reasons for “shooting the messenger” so to speak. For one, such discussion metaphorically challenges the power structure of professional expertise. Then perhaps for some who view their therapists as lifelines, the idea of betrayal is beyond what they think they can bear.

I think it’s quite possible to view the strife as a rich vein and turn it into something meaningful.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I can only speak for me and my participation in a recent thread. I got caught up in drama and self righteousness. I can't explain it because that is not who I am. I pride myself on being honest and empathetic and its like that went out the window. I am also not easily influenced by people I am pretty sure and solid on my own moral code and feelings. For some unknown reason I just took some bait and ran with it. Its almost like going along with the bullies. while you arent actively bullying like the main bullies, you are complicit by not distancing yourself and sticking up for the underdog or the person in pain. I hope I do not experience such a lapse in judgement again because it truly isnt who I am. I think coming clean, admitting you are wrong and being forgiven is a beautiful thing and I am grateful that forgiveness has been granted to me.

Sarah, again I’m moved and grateful for your words. Thank you so much for understanding both sides.

[missbella]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

I can only speak for me and my participation in a recent thread. I got caught up in drama and self righteousness. I can't explain it because that is not who I am. I pride myself on being honest and empathetic and its like that went out the window. I am also not easily influenced by people I am pretty sure and solid on my own moral code and feelings. For some unknown reason I just took some bait and ran with it. Its almost like going along with the bullies. while you arent actively bullying like the main bullies, you are complicit by not distancing yourself and sticking up for the underdog or the person in pain. I hope I do not experience such a lapse in judgement again because it truly isnt who I am. I think coming clean, admitting you are wrong and being forgiven is a beautiful thing and I am grateful that forgiveness has been granted to me.

PS. I think you offer many well-expressed thoughtful insights, and I hope you're either writing, blogging, journaling or otherwise saving these. Sometimes larger projects start with scraps the writer doesn't even realize she has begun.

[Topiarysurvivor]

Originally Posted by blackocean

I think some of it is just people looking to fight to release anger or something. like someone in the other thread by OutThere made a callous, mean, snarky comment and it feels like baiting.

the thread is addresssed to survivors and has supportive comments and then it’s already devolving where one person says they felt silenced and another person is joining in and soon i predict another thread closed

I almost answered that post, but decided it wasn't worth it, and that probably if that person did not get the response they expected from us it would be best.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Cheryl27

It's sad to see there is more debate on these types of threads then support. I myself am a survivor of mis treatment by professional 9 years ago i got badly terminated by them, still today im still struggiling. I can talk about it to my therapist however he has yet to help me have a stronger voice. It's difficult to get therapy for trauma done by therapist it's like they all protect each other. I truly hope pc becomes a supportive place for people like me who have been terribly hurt by therapist.

Abandonment trauma is brutal. Did you recieve any warning about it?

I agree with you, it is so hard to find support for abuse by therapist. The system does indeed protect itself because they don't want people to know what goes on and so many actually do unethical things.

My heart goes out to you!

Thanks,
Hd7970ghz

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by missbella

Harm in therapy, iatrogenesis, is an extremely provocative topic for the profession as witnessed by the death of literature around it. Critics like the late David Smail and Tana Dineen reported brutal treatment by their peers. When I had the temerity to tell a therapy ethics book professor that her publication ridiculed clients, none other than an APA president jumped in to invalidate my review with ad hominem chastening.

I think there are a number of reasons for “shooting the messenger” so to speak. For one, such discussion metaphorically challenges the power structure of professional expertise. Then perhaps for some who view their therapists as lifelines, the idea of betrayal is beyond what they think they can bear.

I think it’s quite possible to view the strife as a rich vein and turn it into something meaningful.

This is very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

[Topiarysurvivor]

I'm trying not to start new threads because it seems to overwhelm the forum.

I've been learning about Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. I was listening to a podcast about ACT and trauma when I had this very strange thought. How would your unethical / exploitative / corrupt ( hope that covers everyone) therapist have reacted if they had been nor your first, but the subsequent therapist to whom you reported that you had been exploited by a previous therapist? I know some of you have had the horrible experience of having more than one therapist who hurt you, but go back to the first one.

Now that I have put that question out here, I am having a really hard time answering the question. My exT is extremely articulate and well spoken in that gracious southern way which I now know to be fake. Disclaimer - I'm only talking about a small group of people in the south! I know that she would have known that she should react with dismay and support, but I believe that she had earlier experiences with boundary crossing and a professor who crossed boundaries, and probably would not have had the immediate angry and indignant response all of the 3 subsequent therapists and the two Pdocs I saw have had. I know, I've been so lucky to find these people! I think that she would have tried to turn the conversation back to other issues about me, like I've heard some of you say that your subsequent therapists have done. I'll keep thinking, but would love to hear your thoughts.