[HD7970GHZ]

Hi all,

I expect there to be a backlash to this thread. For the sake of my own recovery and for the sake of informing others and preventing further trauma that I and so many others have experienced, I feel it prudent to write this thread.

I thought I would share this just in case there are vigilante advocates (like myself) looking to make a difference and improve the healthcare system. This is NOT meant to be manipulative, nor is it meant to be mischievous, nor exploitative of the therapeutic relationship. This is what needs to be done for therapists to be held accountable and for policy and legislation to change in healthcare, surrounding inherent power imbalances and abuses of power; particularly in regards to legal health records.

Here is how to expose a corrupt and unethical therapist:

1.) See a therapist for a few months or more, audio record sessions without them knowing. (Phones will do)
- **Check your laws and regulations, in some countries and states it
could be illegal to do this**
2.) Request to review their session notes with them after a few months of treatment.
- Wear a hidden body camera and get as clear a picture of their notes as
possible without them knowing.
- **Check your laws and regulations, in some countries and states it
could be illegal to do this**
3.) Continue to see them for several more months.
4.) After several months, request photocopies of your notes.
5.) When you get the notes, compare them with the video of the notes you have.
6.) If they are different, inquire with your therapist if they have or have not changed their notes.
- Make sure you have a recording of this conversation.
- **Check your laws and regulations, in some countries and states it
could be illegal to do this**
7.) If they lie, you will know they are untrustworthy. Go find someone else ASAP and report them.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[Ohseedee]

This doesn't sound like very healthy behaviour to me. I'm sorry to hear you have had such bad experiences in the past regarding therapy.

[Salmon77]

I'm curious if you have done this and if so, what the outcome was.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Salmon77

I'm curious if you have done this and if so, what the outcome was.

no comment...

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Ohseedee

This doesn't sound like very healthy behaviour to me. I'm sorry to hear you have had such bad experiences in the past regarding therapy.

Thank you for your opinion Ohseedee,

I agree, the act of doing so is not healthy. Nor is altering medical records in order to cover-up mistakes and destroy the credibility of a victim of abuse... Journalists go undercover quite often to expose things like this. Doesn't mean it is wrong, does it? Especially when it happens so often? (Genuine question)

Sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[growlycat]

If a therapist has acted unethically or illegally I don’t have a problem with your suggestions

However, entrapping an innocent person isn’t something I see as helpful to your cause.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by growlycat

If a therapist has acted unethically or illegally I don’t have a problem with your suggestions

However, entrapping an innocent person isn’t something I see as helpful to your cause.

Thanks for your comments growlycat,

I have a question regarding the bold: How exactly does this entrap an innocent person if they have done nothing wrong?

*It would be entrapment if you threatened a lawsuit and then ordered your notes, then again they would most likely alter the records in which case they would be penalized even if these methods were utilized.*

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[growlycat]

By setting up a false scenario, and having a preset agenda one may be biased into leading the outcome towards a certain path. I’m not talking obvious sexual violations by all means report away! There are tons of gray areas that by doing this, could take credibility from a real cause.

For example, Jussie Smollett’s situation with the staged beating. He had real and legit concerns about lgbt acceptance in our society but hurt this cause by staging a phony artificial scenario.

If a t is truly being unethical by all means report and sue and repeat as needed. But seeing a therapist for the sole purpose of manufacturing a sting operation may backfire.

[sophiebunny]

This borders on paranoid behavior. It is illegal to record someone without their knowledge. You could be prosecuted. If your therapist will not share treatment notes with you, get a reason why. If you don't find the reasons valid, make a formal request in writing. If you still don't get satisfaction, ask your family doctor or psychiatrist to obtain them. That will work. Secretly photographing notes makes no sense when a physician can obtain them in a matter of hours legally. If you have this much suspicion of your therapist, contact the licensing board and state your case. Let them LEGALLY investigate.

[HowDoYouFeelMeow?]

Originally Posted by sheltiemom2007

This borders on paranoid behavior. It is illegal to record someone without their knowledge. You could be prosecuted. If your therapist will not share treatment notes with you, get a reason why. If you don't find the reasons valid, make a formal request in writing. If you still don't get satisfaction, ask your family doctor or psychiatrist to obtain them. That will work. Secretly photographing notes makes no sense when a physician can obtain them in a matter of hours legally. If you have this much suspicion of your therapist, contact the licensing board and state your case. Let them LEGALLY investigate.

Some states only require one party to consent to the recording. It is not illegal in these states.

This method sounds time consuming and expensive, but I hope it brings you peace.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by growlycat

By setting up a false scenario, and having a preset agenda one may be biased into leading the outcome towards a certain path. I’m not talking obvious sexual violations by all means report away! There are tons of gray areas that by doing this, could take credibility from a real cause.

For example, Jussie Smollett’s situation with the staged beating. He had real and legit concerns about lgbt acceptance in our society but hurt this cause by staging a phony artificial scenario.

If a t is truly being unethical by all means report and sue and repeat as needed. But seeing a therapist for the sole purpose of manufacturing a sting operation may backfire.

In Bold: What do you mean by false scenario? How exactly is it a false scenario when what is being done is perfectly legal and within the rights of any mental health patient? It isn't infringing on anyone and it isn't creating any kind of scenario. If a therapist is going to alter records they will do so regardless if a patient is recording them or not. Suggesting that a therapist will alter records just because a patient is secretly recording them is a fallacious argument.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by sheltiemom2007

This borders on paranoid behavior. It is illegal to record someone without their knowledge. You could be prosecuted. If your therapist will not share treatment notes with you, get a reason why. If you don't find the reasons valid, make a formal request in writing. If you still don't get satisfaction, ask your family doctor or psychiatrist to obtain them. That will work. Secretly photographing notes makes no sense when a physician can obtain them in a matter of hours legally. If you have this much suspicion of your therapist, contact the licensing board and state your case. Let them LEGALLY investigate.

Thank you for your response,

In bold: This is not correct. In Canada it is perfectly legal to record someone so long as you yourself give yourself permission to do so. It is called the one party consent law.

Also - it is not paranoid. How is this paranoid? There is nothing paranoid about this it is a means of protecting oneself, is it not?

Alteration of medical records is a cultural and systemic issue in healthcare. It happens very often and a lot of the time you cannot prove it because there are safeguards written in digital software to allow IT technicians to erase remnants of original documents. It is also very common to shred and create new documents in healthcare.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by HowDoYouFeelMeow?

Some states only require one party to consent to the recording. It is not illegal in these states.

This method sounds time consuming and expensive, but I hope it brings you peace.

Thanks HowdoyoufeelMeow,

You are correct about the part in bold.

[growlycat]

I may be misunderstanding your initial post. I took your suggestion to mean that people should seek out a therapist for the sole purpose of exposing them ALL as frauds. There are some really crappy therapists out there and many nightmarish ones but not all.

Or maybe you were only suggesting this for therapists who are already acting badly?

If the first is true, then you are seeking therapy under false pretenses. You are coming into it with a bias towards finding wrongdoing. Your actions could influence the outcome. For example if you go into this thinking all therapists are monsters you may sway the outcome by your own behavior and the muddy the waters between their real or perceived wrongdoing and your intentional wrongdoing.

[growlycat]

I do agree that inaccurate and minimal record keeping seems to be pervasive in healthcare. There had to be a better way to resolve that issue.

[HowDoYouFeelMeow?]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

Thanks HowdoyoufeelMeow,

You are correct about the part in bold.

Sorry I missed the Canada part! Hopefully that makes things more reasonably priced. ;-)

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I may be misunderstanding your initial post. I took your suggestion to mean that people should seek out a therapist for the sole purpose of exposing them ALL as frauds. There are some really crappy therapists out there and many nightmarish ones but not all.

Or maybe you were only suggesting this for therapists who are already acting badly?

If the first is true, then you are seeking therapy under false pretenses. You are coming into it with a bias towards finding wrongdoing. Your actions could influence the outcome. For example if you go into this thinking all therapists are monsters you may sway the outcome by your own behavior and the muddy the waters between their real or perceived wrongdoing and your intentional wrongdoing.

In bold: Thank you for understanding. I am not saying you should do this intentionally to draw out illegal behavior. It is more of a method to protect yourself.

The Underline: I still don't quite understand your argument but I suppose we could chalk it up to self-fulfilling prophecy in which case, it is still the therapist's choice to alter medical records and if they do they deserve to get caught.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[sarahsweets]

Are you saying this should be done when you have had an issue with a particular therapist already?

[here today]

Originally Posted by HD7970GHZ

. . .For the sake of my own recovery and for the sake of informing others and preventing further trauma
. . .

I agree that those of us who have experienced therapy trauma and harm have important information that could be used to inform others and prevent further trauma.

I'm not sure how effective individual action targeted at one aspect of the problem will be, however. Although, at least you are proposing one specific action plan and I remain kinda stuck.

I would prefer to expose the underbelly of the mental health profession, which I see as possibly competent and relatively caring members of the profession ignoring and tolerating systemic problems, including bad apples, which harm people who come to them for help and care.

There is a conference (again) this week about sex abuse in the Catholic Church. It's taken such a long time -- are there parallels with that situation that we could learn from? What did it take to get that issue addressed directly? And even now that it is being addressed, it is still hard, apparently, for church officials to take action against their colleagues. The Pope did, this week, call sex abuse an "evil".

I think what happened to me has been evil, too. Maybe not consciously in my case, but in their unconsciousness and denial, therapists have been pretty useless for my situation, despite my best efforts and seeking help that I did not know was incapable of helping me. So, in my case, going to therapy all those years was an exercise in putting myself down, and getting put down further by therapists and the therapy process, which did not help.

It's hard to describe or put a name on it, though, for people who have not experienced it. Maybe that is a place to put some more effort -- collect more of our stories, identify commonalities?

[Myrto]

These all sound like good suggestions to me.

I don't see anything "paranoid" about recording sessions. They're the client's sessions after all and unless someone is going to upload them on YouTube I fail to see the problem.

I recorded all my sessions, most of the time without informing the therapist who would have objected to it of course.Mhm wonder why

I find it odd how people use the law as some sort of objective criteria. Lots of things are perfectly legal and completely immoral and unethical.
Laws aren't made in a vacuum, they reflect the society we live in. After all, it's perfectly legal to marry 9-year-old girls to adult men in various parts of the world.

I think for people like the OP who were abused it's perfectly natural to find ways to protect yourself. And of course abused clients don't trust therapists. That's basic common sense.

[missbella]

The thread title pertains to corrupt and unethical therapists. I suggest leaving ASAP and getting their notes.

[AllHeart]

Add to that...save every single piece of written correspondence, even if seemingly insignificant. Texts, emails, document phone calls (if unable to record), etc.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by here today

I agree that those of us who have experienced therapy trauma and harm have important information that could be used to inform others and prevent further trauma.

I'm not sure how effective individual action targeted at one aspect of the problem will be, however. Although, at least you are proposing one specific action plan and I remain kinda stuck.

I would prefer to expose the underbelly of the mental health profession, which I see as possibly competent and relatively caring members of the profession ignoring and tolerating systemic problems, including bad apples, which harm people who come to them for help and care.

There is a conference (again) this week about sex abuse in the Catholic Church. It's taken such a long time -- are there parallels with that situation that we could learn from? What did it take to get that issue addressed directly? And even now that it is being addressed, it is still hard, apparently, for church officials to take action against their colleagues. The Pope did, this week, call sex abuse an "evil".

I think what happened to me has been evil, too. Maybe not consciously in my case, but in their unconsciousness and denial, therapists have been pretty useless for my situation, despite my best efforts and seeking help that I did not know was incapable of helping me. So, in my case, going to therapy all those years was an exercise in putting myself down, and getting put down further by therapists and the therapy process, which did not help.

It's hard to describe or put a name on it, though, for people who have not experienced it. Maybe that is a place to put some more effort -- collect more of our stories, identify commonalities?

In Bold: I agree. The biggest way to expose the healthcare system entirely is to prove that alteration of medical records is systemic. That it happens in public, private and non-profit sectors and that it allows those in power to abuse vulnerable people. Basically they control the only evidence that exists. Taking away the power of their health records COULD mean they will be unable to lie and cover-up misdeeds. It is a step in the right direction.

I believe this is the start for accountability. Sure, there are advocacy organizations who speak up about abuses and create platforms for survivors to speak up - that must continue. But the big picture IS the legal aspect. How do situations like these play out in court proceedings and or complaint processes? First thing lawsuits do is subpeona the health records, (which are the property of the therapist that is being sued, who can also alter and modify the records before they are released). Add to this that in complaint processes, the first thing that happens is the professional gets a copy of the complaint, then they are asked to provide copies of the session notes as they are the only evidence that exists... (Conflict of interest!) They are given the copy of the complaint and they have the ability to alter their records knowing what the specifics of the complaint are! How much more corrupt could the system be!?

Notes in a court of law play a major role. They reflect the professionals opinion and also reflect the mental stability of the client. It sure doesn't take much to destroy a survivor's voice. Sometimes they don't even get to speak in court because they are deemed mentally unfit to do so.

The entire problem in healthcare is lack of accountability and power imbalance. Those qualities fester into environments rife with abuse. Until those things change, abuse will simply get worse over time because no one is held accountable and they can protect themselves all they want.

Alteration of medical records is paramount to changing policy and legislation and minimizing abuse within healthcare. Advocacy, public inquiries, lawsuits and complaints all serve a valuable purpose of spreading awareness, but it doesn't keep those in power from abusing if they want to... Exposing the systemic issues surrounding alteration of legal health records would mean they are no longer considered evidence in a court of law (because no one can prove they have been changed or not).

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[sarahsweets]

Can those of you who have mentioned altering notes/records share more about that? It like never occurred to me, and I am not quite sure if I am understanding. Do you all mean blatant lies about you? Or is it half/truths? Or is it elimination of facts?

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Can those of you who have mentioned altering notes/records share more about that? It like never occurred to me, and I am not quite sure if I am understanding. Do you all mean blatant lies about you? Or is it half/truths? Or is it elimination of facts?

Hi SarahSweets,

Thanks for the question.

In short, the healthcare system exists to help people. Whether we are talking about mental health, physical health and or elderly, even though healthcare is designed to help people - it unfortunately harms a lot of people too. Like the 3rd leading annual cause of death in the United States has been medical errors... Those types of numbers. It is astronomical.

The big picture mentality is this: We need a healthcare system. Due to the vast amounts of money spent on keeping the healthcare system afloat, as well as the vast amounts of mistakes that are made, there are many things that must take place.

One of these things is alteration of medical records. It is a means of safeguarding professionals if they are to make mistakes. Alteration of medical records is common and normal behavior in healthcare. Even though it is illegal, unethical and corruption - they do it all the time. It is literally normalized deviance.


Many healthcare professionals come to see it as a necessary evil to keep the system afloat and maintain a public facade of do no harm - however, overtime, this kind of behavior leads to a toxic workplace culture rife with abuse and atrocity. Once these healthcare professionals realize they can control the only evidence that exists - it opens the doors to all kinds of bad.

There are many lawsuits against healthcare professionals when they harm someone. IF every healthcare professional was held accountable - there would be an even larger shortage of healthcare workers and the healthcare system would crumble from having to paying out millions for lawsuits. So - the healthcare system operates under parameters that operate above the law. Alteration of medical records are their way of protecting both themselves and their system. It is seen as a necessary evil.

I hope this answers your question. I have personally experienced this in the healthcare system multiple times - it is literally normal behavior for them. They live under the illusion that it is self-preservation. Unfortunately it is the same system that protects them that also allows abuse to go on behind closed doors.

Alteration of medical records can be used to cover-up mistakes, to distort facts and create an ideal defense package in a court of law, to destroy the credibility of a victim and or survivor, and last but not least, to write malicious content such as false diagnosis and or any other creative distortion that is necessary to keep a whistle-blower from speaking up.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz