[DP_2017]

I'm currently on a therapy break, unsure if/when I'll return... but as I think about it a bit as far as making future plans.... besides my issue with T...my other big thing is not accepting ANYONE (but dogs) care about me or love me.... I also don't believe praise from people... it's something I've always had.

Something T tried hard with fixing and I did believe that he really cared and I mattered, although when he left, everything became a doubt in my mind... so I am back to the way I always am with people

I'm just wondering if therapy can really help with this? Does talking really help with such deep issues like this? I don't want therapy for years.... no more long term stuff.

Is there any other non therapy things that can help me with this issue?

*My T even made mention of this in his goodbye letter that no matter what he said, I could find negative in it* He was the only person I ever really remember feeling so much along these lines with but... it obviously didn't work. I feel like this is a lost cause issue. Advice?

[SlumberKitty]

I believe therapy can help with not accepting that anyone could care or love you and accepting praise. Have you tried CBT? It can be a pretty short term therapy but it has it's benefits. I'm not a fan of strict CBT but it might work really well for you. BTW, we care and love about you here on PC! HUGS Kit

[DP_2017]

Baby t does do cbt. We only really talk about t though

And thanks but i don't believe it sadly

[stopdog]

I doubt there are any quick remedies whether therapy or non-therapy based. There are some schools of thought that would teach to relax and go through it as being relatively faster than resisting and fighting.

[unaluna]

Wayne Dwyer, or Dyer, an author t from the 1970's, said something back then that has always stuck with me. That people say, "Thats the way ive always been!" as if it were something to be proud of, that they would never change. He was like, its just old fashioned and i dont know if he said ignorant, but that was the impression he tried to give about it. The seventies were a rough time!

He had a book called The Erroneous Zones. He was like the Dr Phil of back then, guy with a big bald head. And a bunch of other books. Only thing holding you back is yourself.

The thing is, you are pre-emptively pre-empting yourself. You are saying you dont want to change, even before you TRY to change. Thats not fair! The rest of us (excluding some) at least SAY we want to change, we try it, we see how freakin hard it is, THEN we complain. That seems more fair. To me, anyway. Tongue-in-cheek, but YKWIM.

[Omers]

You can borrow my T but you have to give him back... or at least share. 🤣
I thought I was beyond believing a T could care or do any real good. I alternated between a very solid and scholarly attack on the foundations of psychology and the idea that I was just beyond help (I had 3 T’s tell me that my current state of miserable tolerance of life was the best I was capable of achieving). Thankfully I have the pesky voice of a very loving priest who has always held out hope that I could find healing.

I have several dogs that I thought loved me... until my husband moved in... dogs! But the cats are still loyal... at least most of them. The horses have always been cheep... they love whoever has the peppermints.

More seriously though... for me it was a matter of finding the right person (and I don’t think they have to be a T). Once I read through T’s web page I knew that if there was any chance for me to heal he was the one. I spent the whole first session asking him if he was going to be willing to take me on as a client.

[DP_2017]

I never said I don't want to change, I obviously do or I would not consider it a issue to work on. I just wont do long term therapy

I'm also not sure therapy actually helps so I was just asking

If therapy isn't for you, how about developing relationships outside of therapy? I don't know how it is possible to build a sense of trust and care with others without experimenting (which of course takes bravery and is a risk) with relationships and consequently experiencing first-hand relational love (which I mean in a non-sentimental and non-romantic way).

[stopdog]

What is it you want help with? Despite your protests to the contrary - you do seem to want to connect with human beings very badly. Fear of being hurt seems to be one of the things that stops you. Being hurt is a part of life. There are no relationships without some hurt or loss that I know of. On the whole, it would seem to be a balance and one hopes there is more good than bad when dealing with others. I think usually there is. One may need to adjust one's unreasonable expectations.

Some people report that therapy has helped them with sort of thing and some report it has not. Everything is a crap shoot. You did not get this way quickly and expecting a therapist you have seen 3-4 times(or how ever few times) to have fixed the pain seems to be setting it up to fail. I don't think many therapists would find your situation to be a short term solving situation. Most of helping with it seems to be variations on the theme of get out there and try relating to a lot of different people in different area and you seem quite anti that sort of suggestion.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

If therapy isn't for you, how about developing relationships outside of therapy? I don't know how it is possible to build a sense of trust and care with others without experimenting (which of course takes bravery and is a risk) with relationships and consequently experiencing first-hand relational love (which I mean in a non-sentimental and non-romantic way).

I'm working on it. I'm stating a local gaming group here and I'm volunteering with dogs.

Originally Posted by stopdog

What is it you want help with? Despite your protests to the contrary - you do seem to want to connect with human beings very badly. Fear of being hurt seems to be one of the things that stops you. Being hurt is a part of life. There are no relationships without some hurt or loss that I know of. On the whole, it would seem to be a balance and one hopes there is more good than bad when dealing with others. I think usually there is. One may need to adjust one's unreasonable expectations.

Some people report that therapy has helped them with sort of thing and some report it has not. Everything is a crap shoot. You did not get this way quickly and expecting a therapist you have seen 3-4 times(or how ever few times) to have fixed the pain seems to be setting it up to fail. I don't think many therapists would find your situation to be a short term solving situation. Most of helping with it seems to be variations on the theme of get out there and try relating to a lot of different people in different area and you seem quite anti that sort of suggestion.

I loved when I believed T cared and I mattered, it really made me feel worth something, so of course I'd love that, but yes, I keep people distant to protect myself. I was really scared to get close to T because I feared he would leave me and I tried it anyway and well, I was right. It's always been the case so I just don't know how to not have that mindset that people leave but also how do I believe I'm really worth it and not just a pity party

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Omers

You can borrow my T but you have to give him back... or at least share. 🤣
I thought I was beyond believing a T could care or do any real good. I alternated between a very solid and scholarly attack on the foundations of psychology and the idea that I was just beyond help (I had 3 T’s tell me that my current state of miserable tolerance of life was the best I was capable of achieving). Thankfully I have the pesky voice of a very loving priest who has always held out hope that I could find healing.

I have several dogs that I thought loved me... until my husband moved in... dogs! But the cats are still loyal... at least most of them. The horses have always been cheep... they love whoever has the peppermints.

More seriously though... for me it was a matter of finding the right person (and I don’t think they have to be a T). Once I read through T’s web page I knew that if there was any chance for me to heal he was the one. I spent the whole first session asking him if he was going to be willing to take me on as a client.

Dogs are the best!

I feel like T was that person. I really did believe at one point, for many months that he really cared and I mattered. I even told him I felt loved at times. It all came crashing down when he left, I questioned it all and thought maybe it was out of pity, maybe I was just delusional etc... I don't know that I can ever truly believe I matter to anyone, I think I'll always question it.

Even with my best friend, I believe she cares BUT I also believe its because she "has to" as a friend and I believe she will ditch me at some point. I've told her this often. I just am unsure if there is anyway to ever believe I matter or anyone cares and not from a place of pity or because they have to... idk. I just feel stuck. I wish there was a way to deal with it without therapy

[stopdog]

There are many ways to deal with things without therapy. None of them are risk free.

[Omers]

Did T say why he left? I know if something happened to my T or he terminated with me I would be totally crushed. My husband has even expressed concerns for my safety and where he could possibly send me (as if THAT doesn’t tell ya something) if T were to leave.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Omers

Did T say why he left? I know if something happened to my T or he terminated with me I would be totally crushed. My husband has even expressed concerns for my safety and where he could possibly send me (as if THAT doesn’t tell ya something) if T were to leave.

He had a lot of issues in his life and at work. He decided being a therapist was not a good fit for him and quit doing that in December. I had 2 weeks notice

What would a relationship need to look like in order for you to believe the care or love?

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

What would a relationship need to look like in order for you to believe the care or love?

Idk, I think I need to feel worth it. I don't.

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Idk, I think I need to feel worth it. I don't.

I didn't ask how you imagine you need to feel. I asked what the relationship would be like. What behaviours would you need to see from the other person? How long would the relationship need to last? Does it need to be sexual? Does the person need to be a man or a woman? How would you behave towards the other? What would you give them? How would arguments be resolved?

It sounds as if you have been involved in at least two significant relationships (your counsellor and your friend), but you reject them both because they are not perfect and limitless. People are flawed and limited, relationships are hard. You need to be clear about what you want and then consider the reality of adult human relationships.

[Omers]

Oh, that totally sucks. I am sorry he was not able to give you more notice and help you prepare for such a big loss. I am sure he had his reasons but that does feel so unfair. Give yourself time and patience to grieve. December really was not that long ago even though I am sure right now it feels like an eternity.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I didn't ask how you imagine you need to feel. I asked what the relationship would be like. What behaviours would you need to see from the other person? How long would the relationship need to last? Does it need to be sexual? Does the person need to be a man or a woman? How would you behave towards the other? What would you give them? How would arguments be resolved?

It sounds as if you have been involved in at least two significant relationships (your counsellor and your friend), but you reject them both because they are not perfect and limitless. People are flawed and limited, relationships are hard. You need to be clear about what you want and then consider the reality of adult human relationships.

I don't reject them for that reason. I said I believed my therapist... until he left. How am I supposed to believe he cared and I matter after that?

My friend isn't perfect I know that.

I don't feel I'm worth it so for me... that's why I can't accept it. I feel its always a pity thing

I have no answers for you because I don't know. I'm not sure its possible. There is no ideal for me. I'm open to it but I don't feel worth it so I can't accept it from anyone beyond just for pity

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by Omers

Oh, that totally sucks. I am sorry he was not able to give you more notice and help you prepare for such a big loss. I am sure he had his reasons but that does feel so unfair. Give yourself time and patience to grieve. December really was not that long ago even though I am sure right now it feels like an eternity.

Ya that's why I went to therapy again to deal with it. I do want to move on though, so I'm really struggling with that and wanting to just be happy again somehow. I could see me in therapy for 5 years and still a mess, so I wont get into long term therapy. Just trying to figure out what to do from here. How to move on, how to let go.... and how to believe I'm worth it.

Originally Posted by DP_2017

I have no answers for you because I don't know. I'm not sure its possible. There is no ideal for me. I'm open to it but I don't feel worth it so I can't accept it from anyone beyond just for pity

There is no "ideal" for anyone, that concept is Hollywood sentimentalised nonsense. It's interesting that I asked you about the general nature of a loving relationship and you jumped to the concept of an "ideal".

Do you think you are self-pitying? Maybe your preoccupation with others experiencing a pity-love for you is a projective experience.

[DP_2017]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

There is no "ideal" for anyone, that concept is Hollywood sentimentalised nonsense. It's interesting that I asked you about the general nature of a loving relationship and you jumped to the concept of an "ideal".

Do you think you are self-pitying? Maybe your preoccupation with others experiencing a pity-love for you is a projective experience.

If I understood any of this I wouldn't need help with it. I just know it's an issue.

If you need help with the nature of relationships and how you can exist happily and relationally, I think this is work which can only be done on a long term basis since it is painful and exposing. Of course there are alternatives like dogs and yoga and journalling and CBT and walks and blah blah, but unless your self-development activities are done in deep relationship with an other, you won't have the opportunity to learn about vulnerability in relations. And you will remain stuck, which is safe, but you sound as if you need more than you currently have.

[LonesomeTonight]

My therapist often talks about how all relationships ultimately end (even if it's because of death). But how that doesn't make them not worth having. I mean, I think of myself personally, and I've been hurt many times in my life by relationships--boyfriends, friends, therapists, coworkers, family (though that's been more through death). Yet I still find that I keep seeking them out, so clearly there's something that makes them worthwhile for me, despite the risk. And I have anxious/preoccupied attachment, so I definitely feel the risk and fear the abandonment. But I still get something out of them. That connection that I feel to someone, however fleeting--there's something in there that's worth it for me. My T says that accepting that relationships won't last can help us to appreciate them more in the moment for what they are. I'm not quite to that point yet, as I still have fears tied to relationships and it's hard for me to just be like "well, I'm sure this will end" and feel OK with that. But I'm working toward it.

Just to add, most of the reasons that relationships end aren't *bad* reasons per se--there are some former coworkers who I was pretty close to at the time I was working someplace, and we just lost touch. (There are a couple other former coworkers who I'm still friends with.) Or sometimes a friendship can be right at one point in your life, then you go in different directions and it just naturally fades out. Maybe a little sad, but not devastating in the way that some other endings can be.

[DP_2017]

LT

yep, my T had the same chat with me before he left... and I already knew no relationships last. I'm not sure if it's as much about avoiding the end/hurt that will happen or if it's about my self worth.... as I once told T, every single person on earth has value, but me.... he looked really sad and tried to say something kind (i sadly can't remember it anymore) but I said "thanks for trying to be nice"

I've always felt this way. it's party too why I don't get close to people... having friends is one thing but being close is something else. I did it with T, it seemed to help but now I regret it. I prefer the type of friends I can just be silly with and do things with and talk about tv or dogs... but nothing deep.

I know nothing lasts forever relationship wise, it's why I 100% know my friend will leave me sooner than later. I've believed it since we met 7 years ago.

I just am unsure if therapy can really help long deep rooted things like this, it takes ages to change life long things, but if I am in long term therapy, I'd panic and run. I can't do it again. A break is good for me. I am planning on a month or two.

Hopefully in that time, I can get my mind focused again and work on doing things out of the house, staying busy and all that but I think I'll always keep a cautious distance with people.