Are all psychodynamic therapists impersonal and emotionally distant?

I´ve seen my new T two times now and from the beginning I´ve felt she´s too cold and distant for me to be able to build trust in her.

Today I said to her that I don´t feel welcome as she doesn´t say anything kind at the beginning like "how was your trip here?" or similar. It can be something simple about the weather and such.

She then told me she doesn´t do those things and neither do any other psychodynamic T:s.

She hardly ever smiles during session and of course she doesn´t share anything about herself.

The only thing that might be a bit of relieving is that I can freely show how much I dislike her. I tell her she isn´t supportive and she doesn´t seem to like me either.


She told me she doesn´t know why I´m at her facility as they don´t treat people with depression and anxiety only but more of complex diagnoses.

It´s just odd she says that as they have known about my depression and anxiety diagnosis from the beginning as they also received a formal referral from my former clinic.

I do wonder if it´s really true that all psychodynamic therapists are like this? I now mean showing no emotions, not willing to talk a little in the beginning or tell me to have a nice weekend or similar at the end of session?

I don't think chatting or telling you to have a good weekend means a T is truly warm and friendly. Anyone can say those things, whether they like you or care about you or not. If you're freely showing that you dislike this T, she may be experiencing some negative emotions in response that she thinks it would be unhelpful to show you.

Mine doesn't chat about the weather etc. but he is warm and supportive when we talk about more important things.

I agree with Salmon that not chatting about weather or whatever does not mean impersonal or cold. My guess is that the T you're talking about is simply neural at this point, which makes sense as you don't know each other and haven't established a relationship yet. The genuine warmth requires that the relationship has developed to a certain level, otherwise it's just a pose.
It seems that you value highly this pose but somehow confuse it with caring and warmth.

To answer your question though then yes, probably most psychodynamic therapists would not do those superficial gestures as this is really not the point of therapy, nor does it necessarily help you in any way.

How long will you be able to see her? How did you get sent to her clinic?

No, not all, or IMO, even the majority of psychodynamic therapists are cold and distant. I think most Ts realize treating the client like a human being helps the therapy process. I'm sorry you have such a T. Perhaps you need to rethink this T? Or do you have the choice to change Ts?

I don't think all are though I do think they all try to minimize the amount of personal stuff they share. At 2 sessions, it might be hard to figure out what is the best way to work with you and what you might need. Then again, this might be her style and you might have to decide if you can work within her style or not.

Why do you think you were sent to her clinic? Do you think you might have a more complex diagnosis? What has your psychiatric nurse told you about that? Are you still seeing her, too? Perhaps you could ask her why you were referred to this clinic?

I haven't really had any therapists who seemed cold and distant. I did have one who didn't say much and just stared at me. I only saw her a few times.

I think it's great you can tell her about all your negative feelings. Do you think if she consistently withstands all the negative feelings you might grow to trust her afterwards?

Psychodynamic means different things to different Ts. When I think of psychodynamic, I think of psychoanalysts, who are the type of therapists I hire. Yes, they tend to be more neutral and so draw all your feelings out.

I'd hang in there longer and see how it goes
Give it a chance. Being that honest with a T--telling her exactly how you feel--can be a good thing. Brave, I'd say.

PS My guess is you might be considered a complex case given you've been through so many Ts. It sounds like your T might specialize in complex cases. I personally can't imagine warm and fuzzy Ts in that scenario, but that's just my gut feeling. A warm and fuzzy T may not be solid enough, maybe.

I would prefer that a therapist start off by TRYING to develop a positive rapport.

I might use this an opportunity to release any carry-over anger from your prior bad experience in therapy and see where it goes. Seems to me, she might be more game for this than a touchy feely motherly type.

Not extending a basic greeting, never smiling, sharing nothing... these are traits therapists would define as disordered if observed in others.

If you strip away all aspects of normal human relating, and treat the relationship like a laboratory entity, and the client like an object, then wow that's really creepy.

Also, this sounds eerily similar to some sort of cult indoctrination process.

Silence and neutrality are important tools in the psychodynamic toolbox, but different therapists deploy those tools differently and with varying levels of consistency and rigidity. I don't think that a lack of small talk necessarily means a therapist is cold or impersonal. But I can imagine how a lack of normal social niceties could contribute to that impression alongside other factors.

My therapist is psychodynamic/psychoanalytic, and while I've never felt like he's impersonal or cold, he doesn't typically initiate small talk. Though ironically this past week he did ask me how my trip there was at the beginning of one session, and said he hoped I'd have a nice weekend at the end of another! That's uncommon though. And the weekend comment was less chit chat, more an expression of support after a difficult session. Other times, I've found his more neutral stance and silence at the beginning of sesssions helpful. And sometimes that's been difficult too, but usually in a productive way. I think small talk at the beginning of a session can be welcoming sometimes, but can also cover up some difficult emotions and thoughts that would be better off out in the open.

My T is psychodynamic. I remember him being quite 'impersonal' during our first year together, by that I mean he'd not share really anything about his personal experience of our sessions or what he's feeling, let alone something like what kind of music he listens to. But he's warmed up a lot, yesterday for example he shared some of his favorite bands and he often talks about feelings that come up for him.

He usually does not talk in the beginning, he just asks how my week was. If I decide to make some small-talk, he'll go with that though. And he'll say things such as 'have a good week' or encourages me to call him if something comes up at the end of sessions.

He also smiles if I look at him and smile, and he'll laugh if he thinks something is funny.

I don't think all psychodynamic Ts are like that. But I could see them being more like that in the beginning to not lead the client down a path that does not fit them.

This is not to criticize you or tell you that you shouldn't post about these things or anything else that you want, but I wonder how it would help you if she greeted you in the precise way you want (and she says "hello" or otherwise acknowledges you, yes?) How would her asking these small talk questions help you deal with the problem you are wanting to address in therapy? And I don't think it's about feeling more comfortable or feeling warmth or the like. Your ability to deal with your stuff doesn't depend upon much other than your willingness to do it. I don't see anything in her behavior that prevents you from dealing with the actual problem, whatever that is. The therapist's behavior or words are not the problem you are there to solve, nor is the problem that people won't say what you want them to say.

My t is warm and engaging; I couldnt work with someone like you described.

But what if the therapist's behavior and the way she seems cold and distant ARE a problem for Sarah? As Sarah sees and feels it?

I felt the same way when I first met my therapist who I’ve been seeing for a year and a half now. He is psychodynamic and I had no idea what that meant at the time. I had very little experience with therapy and had picked him because I liked his webpage. After I had seen him for a few months, I was very anxious about the start of our sessions and was looking for “proof” that he should behave differently or more like people would in real world situations. I hated the beginning of our sessions - the way he looked at me blankly until I spoke. It felt cold and uncivilized and a bit like a form of torture. Anyway, I ended up finding a 300 page psychodynamic therapy textbook (written for therapists) online that was written by a professor at Columbia University and I highlighted these few sentences:

“Therapy is a little like chess; someone has to make the first move – and it should be you. The silent therapist who comes in, sits down, and says nothing is a caricature. Your job is to subtly shape the session, and this happens from the very beginning.”

I was ecstatic about finding this and hoped it would convince him to change his ways by being warmer and making small talk at the beginning of our sessions so that I’d feel more comfortable. Rather than sending him this little excerpt I sent him a link to the entire 300 page textbook! I suspect it might have made him a little uncomfortable but he was receptive and thanked me. We talked about it, but he most certainly did not change the way he starts his sessions.

I’ve since learned that he most certainly is indeed warm and kind, but it’s typically in response to things we are discussing. If he were to start out being gratuitously warm and fuzzy I suspect it would be harder for me to bring up some of the harder topics/emotions and I think he acts the way he does because he’s trying very hard not to control the session. He has also told me that his goal as a therapist isn’t always to make me feel good which I actually appreciate. Or as I read somewhere else, he’s not a “You go, girl!” therapist. That doesn’t mean that he’s not warm and kind and empathetic at the appropriate times though. I’m not sure if any of this applies to your therapist, but I mention my experience because I felt the same way when I first met my therapist and have been surprised by the way things have changed.

Then Sarah has a perfect opportunity to work with this problem because considering what Sarah has revealed about herself in this forum (social isolation etc), this might be an extremely important problem to work with.

I agree--I'm someone who needs some level of rapport with my T. If I had one who didn't ask how I was doing, told me to have a good weekend, etc., it would bother me. Mine's not warm and fuzzy (or psychodynamic) in general, but he does those sorts of things. My T has said that numerous studies have shown it's the client-T relationship that matters most in the success of therapy, moreso than the specific therapeutic techniques/methods used. Some people might do fine with a more distant T. But if Sarah (and me) wouldn't, that's OK, just would mean she isn't the right T for her (or me).

Plus maybe the clinic isn't the right place, if that T doesn't work with anxiety/depression?

I never perceived any therapist I saw or interviewed as distant and impersonal but it's likely the case because I have known many emotionally really not very demonstrative and engaged people in my life and usually get along with them without issues. I tend to be on the aloof side myself and don't care for small talk unless the other person initiates/needs it, so no surprise I am not bothered by T's not being warm and fuzzy (and prefer it). But I don't see such preferences necessarily as an issue unless someone has unrealistic expectations. If it is unrealistic, means life can rarely or never meet the expectations and/or it causes interpersonal problems in everyday life, then I think it is absolutely worth to work on it.

My therapist also said his job is not to make me feel good.

In the beginning, I tried to get my therapist to change, insisting that there are certain methods that must be used for trauma clients. Some is related to what i read here about attachment in therapy, and I justified my arguments with clinical psychotherapy oriented articles. Well he didn't buy that, and it turns out, his not changing allowed me to change, becoming more empowered as other people's power over me diminished. If how I feel is dependent on another's behavior, I disempower myself and feel pain. A hypothetical example is not just one, but two coworkers don't say good morning, leaving me feeling rejected. A respected colleague says my paper-which I stayed up all night to polish-is off base, leaving me doubting my competency. My next door neighbor crosses a boundary (literally), trimming my shrubs and I feel violated. And so my day is ruined, and this pattern of feeling bad due to others' behavior continues.

I am so fortunate my T taught me to not let others define how I feel. This isn't something that can be learned from hearing words. One of the best things my T did was model a healthy sense of self-not changing at others whims and demands, and being himself rather than being how others expect him to be or want him to be. So, one of the useful parts of my therapy was my Ts neutrality, which led me to change in the most positive ways. And as we developed a more adult connection and relationship rather than based on transference, I experience him as warm and connected, rather than cold and distant.

This type of working allowed me to change from a place of disempowerment and dependency where others' behavior influenced or determined how I felt to being empowered; content with myself for who I am. If my T was always reassuring me, praising me, changing for me, making me feel good, it would have prevented me from changing and so I would have been worse off, in the end.

What I'm trying to say is this way of working can help with feelings of dependency, disempowerment, helplessness, low self worth, sense of self problems, etc. I'm not saying it's for everyone. It's difficult to imagine how this way of working can help, but it can.

The ones I hired were always way too emotional and kept trying to get too personal. They claimed to be psychodynamic. I have no idea what they were really doing.

I think there is also the factor of confusing a more unbiased, confident and self-assured style with being impersonal and not emotionally attuned. I recall in Sarah's earlier posts talking about feeling kinda inferior/intimidated by the therapist's perceived successes and making comparisons. Maybe that's a factor here again, that a more neutral stance generates a perception on some level that the T will not be able to relate to the emotional problems and insecurity or even receive them because their life is more together and they don't experience similar issues?

I really like octoberful's post above about the feelings underlying dependency and how that can develop and improve very significantly in the company of people who don't give in to emotional manipulation and maintain a solid sense of self and behavior regardless of ever-changing external expectations and demands. I did not have similar experience in therapy but know it very well from everyday interactions with different kinds of people. If there is anything external that can influence self-esteem and motivation to grow, it is people who lead by example, in my experience. Demonstrating it with actions, not merely words. One challenge is when someone has a habit to relate to others and bond via emotional turbulence and suffering - it will rarely inspire growth and change because the bond is focused and maintained by the insecurity and dependency on being liked/ desire to please. When people can develop in those areas via therapy, I think it is fantastic and I see most of the therapy successes reported here on PC involving a form of that development with Ts that are able to maintain a level of objectivity and non-involvement and won't try to please the client just for the sake of it, when it is desired/demanded. In some ways, one reason my own therapy was not very useful was because the Ts often engaged and went along with my BS too much, at least for a good while in the beginning. I think they realized it was a mistake later but then it was hard to change, even when I told them repeatedly that it's not positive reinforcement that helps me but more objective assessment and tackling my problems instead of just accepting them. I know different people have different needs and things that help us, but perhaps it's good to keep in mind that merely chasing what feels pleasant, accepting and welcoming is unlikely to lead to true change because it's either just repeating what's familiar or momentary wish fulfillment. Not saying that preferring friendly people necessarily has those currents, am just suggesting to look at what truly drives a preference that is so strong it can cause blocks and prevent from exploring different options, some that might actually lead to great results.

This should be stitched on a pillow. LOL!: " merely chasing what feels pleasant, accepting and welcoming is unlikely to lead to true change because it's either just repeating what's familiar or momentary wish fulfillment"