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Grand Magnate
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#161
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Pretty miserable feeling, though, going through it. . .Will it ever end? Last edited by here today; May 22, 2019 at 05:21 AM.. |
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Anonymous56789
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Grand Poohbah
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#162
In a way, the human condition comes out in therapy, intensified to the nth degree. Whatever unfillableness, longing, memories of violence, awareness of mutability and fear of impermanence we have, whatever fragilities, are summoned from the unconscious while our defenses against them are dismantled. The cliche of therapists is one can only take a client as far as one has been oneself. It becomes dangerous when you have a trauma client in the hands of an inexperienced clinician or someone with a personality disorder matched to a therapist with secure attachment and training in CBT only or a SU client with a burned out and spiritually exhausted T who phones it in for the requisite 45 minutes. Poor fits and mismatches not just between client needs and therapist, but even between modalities of practice make it more of a gamble than it should be, and a drastic gamble for those with SH SUI and psychic pain on an excruciating level. It is a conundrum bc those new to therapy do not know who and what they need, and not all therapists seem self aware about their limits . I still think healing can take place within the client-t relationship if the t has done his/her own work , feels a sense of calling/ meaningfulness about the work, and has depth and breadth of training relevant to the case .
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Forgetmenot07
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Grand Magnate
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#163
I would encourage you to re-read your interpretations of your therapist's silence and consider three questions: 1) how can I possibly know what was inside her head, her feelings or thoughts or intentions?; 2) if I can accept that I can't possibly know what's inside her head from her silence, how can she possibly know what's going on with me?; and 3) what is the most benign way to understand why a therapist might be silent in response to a client's silence? (one possible benign answer: because she's trying to give you space and time to bring to the surface what you need to).
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Forgetmenot07, Xynesthesia2
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#164
I like this, too, in most situations of life. I personally do not tend to agree with views that, in therapy, the client can do whatever and everything should be the Ts responsibility to keep together, tolerate everything etc. Here we mostly talk about adult clients in outpatient services, so not so severely impaired individuals who are unable to make basic judgments and see their side of the construct. Even in the context of therapy that does encourage certain feelings of dependency etc in people that are prone to that or find that hierarchy emotionally appealing. I also do not believe that only people with seriously unmet needs and early life traumas can fall in the trap of such dependencies, it is much more complex IMO, and I often find it frustrating and annoying how simplistic the "therapeutic interpretations" can be. They can easily make people chase concepts and interpretations that have little or no relevance to their unique situation and history.
In any case, I do believe it is very healthy to look at these situations from various angles, including how our (the clients') own limitations distort and drive an experience. This can also help draw better boundaries and not accept any BS Ts or, more generally, the therapy industry are pushing ordinarily. Plus try to stop attempting to mind-read or except that anyone can do that (to Anne's point above). |
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Forgetmenot07
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#165
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This is also why a certain amount of insight is needed to do psychoanalytic therapy. If you don't have an observing ego despite everything surfacing, the client is contraindicated for the therapy. It's a known limitation. |
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Forgetmenot07
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#166
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ArtleyWilkins, Forgetmenot07
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Grand Poohbah
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#167
I agree about the part about transference. Ideally a therapist can recognize it and NOT engage in it - thus not allowing their counter-transference to influence their behavior. Unfortunately, therapists are fallible humans who can very easily be drawn into behaving poorly.
Thanks, HD7970ghz __________________ "stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget" "roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles" "the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy" "don't put all your eggs - in one basket" "promote pleasure - prevent pain" "with change - comes loss" |
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#168
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I also see it in others outside of therapy very frequently, including people with no known trauma history. This can include someone at work relating to me as if I was their mother. Everyone has distortions regardless of what approach you view. The defense mechanisms and transference exists outside of psychoanalytic practitioners. Denial, repression, dissociation, etc. prevents people from 'seeing' quite often--this is common. The opposite happens too-if you have a good T who doesn't engage in your patterns or enmesh, the client can get very angry or distressed and quit, ending badly. If you have relationships that follow a certain pattern and outcome, and the T doesn't follow the usual or desired pattern, then it can be extremely disconcerting but still be outside of one's awareness. So damage can be done regardless of therapist skill, so I am acknowledging that possibility here. |
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Xynesthesia2
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#169
You may be interested in this as it's one concept I have in mind in terms of thick transference and inability to see.
I've always said idealizing transference is the same as falling in love outside of therapy. This article (non-psychoanalytic) explains how the idealization (transference) blocks your sight of things. This happens in therapy every day but tends to be stronger in analytic therapy. That transference distorts reality is so common that there are sayings, poems, hundreds of songs, novels, etc., written about this concept because of how common it is. "Love is blind", "blinded by love". This is the exact same thing as transference. The Science of Being Blinded by Love Science Proves that Love is Blind Maternal/child and romantic/adult are not mutually exclusive either as they are more similar than different. The articles talk about that a little bit too. These are all psychoanalytic concepts revived. I think it all has evolutionary purposes. Quote:
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Grand Magnate
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#170
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I hired the therapists to help me with those parts -- that's what I understood their job to be. If it wasn't that, what was it? If/when the client is disabled in some aspect of their functioning, even if they are able sometimes to make basic judgments about some things, then I definitely do see it as the therapist's responsibility to try to keep things together. And to help the client get some better understanding of what is going on with themselves. How therapists are supposed to do that I don't know. But it is something that I think was reasonable of me to expect from them. I don't expect it any more and hence am not going back to a therapist -- I no longer expect that any of them have any ability to help me with this stuff. |
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Mopey, SlumberKitty
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BudFox, Mopey, Xynesthesia2
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#171
I know many people here would disagree with me (and I know this issue keeps coming up in different forms), that's why this forum is good, to get a variety of opinions and experiences IMO. There is nothing wrong with disagreeing, including with the fact that it is hard to find universally applicable truths and practices for these things.
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Grand Magnate
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#172
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Grand Magnate
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#173
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Xynesthesia2
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Grand Poohbah
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#174
I just wanted to say I LOVE this thread!
__________________ "stand for those who are forgotten - sacrifice for those who forget" "roller coasters not only go up and down - they also go in circles" "the point of therapy - is to get out of therapy" "don't put all your eggs - in one basket" "promote pleasure - prevent pain" "with change - comes loss" |
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Forgetmenot07
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#175
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I think I know what you are trying to say. Nobody is a mind reader and I should not expect my T to know how I feel just like that neither should I make assumption in interpreting her silence. The key should be an open and honest coversation but what if this is the inability to do so is the problem itself? I don't fully agree with you because the situation that I described has a 5 year context which should not be neglected. it wasn't too strangers trying to reach each others minds, She probably recognises some pattersn of my behaviour and should have responded in a more more empathic way. 1. I cannot know what was inside her head unless she tells me but communication is more than the words people use, there are a lot of non verbal clues and mainly context. I never said she must have thought all those thoughts but this is how her behavious made me FEEL, this is how I reacted to it. she wasnt maintaing eye contact, looked impatient and was rushed to finish before time was up. Even after I said I don't think I can bring myself to talk anymore there was no prompting just a quick: 'so when are we meeting next'. A very cold reaction. Towards the end I muttered " i cant do it' and she asked if I want to have the next session at all. Isnt this a massive overreaction on her side? I don't understand what she was trying to prove with her firmness but all I can think of (again my intepratation only) that it was a power struggle. I can't imagine that with so many emails she really had no clue what was going on, and even if she didn't there are better ways to react eg. ASK a question. My point is that I asked in emails for her to initiate the conversation and repeadly wrote how difficult it is for me to open up about our relatioship for a few weeks in a row so this is not that difficult to figure out. 2. I think I answered this in the first question. I wrote many emails soon after previous sessions to express my disappoitment with not being able to talk our relationship through. Even if she didn't know what I was directly reacting to on Monday there were still more than enough clues to at least be more curiuous and any question. Silence can be very poweful if you get stuck. 3. This is an option too... but if so it wasn't very helfpul to me. I have no idea where to start next week. Writing another email seems counterproductive and I worry it will not be mentioned at all. Its also strange because I FEEL like I crossed some kind of line. I wrote a couple of emails since our session and as far as I know she has not read them. She always checked all my messages before. Am I being too defensive? I suppose i won't know the answers unless we talk about it next week. Not sure if I can make it happen! |
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Mopey, SlumberKitty
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Mopey
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#176
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Mopey
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#177
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here today, Xynesthesia2
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#178
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its fascinating how some of us are resistant to this lure and others even though cognitively strong get sucked in... |
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#179
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There are definitely those Ts who foster dependency and those idealistic views about the T-client relationship and they probably will not encourage limiting/regulating it directly. I think many of them also believe this approach will bring out important patterns more, to be examined. I believe that can be very true but also that it can create a parallel, mostly or totally artificial universe that can be irrelevant to our normal lives. But discriminating between the two (i.e. when it is some important pattern, transference etc and when it is merely the product of the structure of therapy) can be tricky. I also definitely got caught up in that confusion in the beginning. |
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Forgetmenot07
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Forgetmenot07
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Grand Magnate
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#180
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I guess I see it as your job to say, perhaps at the beginning of a session, "I wrote in an email last week that I would like for you to initiate the conversation about ___. Can you do that?" Are you saying that you've been seeing this therapist for five years and you still can't say basic things in session? If so, I think it's time to move on. |
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here today
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