How does your T deal with this? (Trigger)

I hope it's helpful! I am just listening to the end of it now, and he says something around 45 minutes in about not getting hijacked when somebody hurts you. I don't think Dr. T intends to hurt you, but I think you do get hurt sometimes when you are with him, and that is when the really big reactions happen and you get hijacked away from yourself (spirals of SH, etc). That's why I think trauma therapy could be helpful as a different strategy to stop the two of you from getting sucked into this painful rupture loop again.

ETA: Talk therapy with Liz once a week and EMDR/DBT with Amy once a week is my current setup. They are different enough that I don't generally get confused about what I have told each of them, and I usually bring different things to work on with each of them. Although lately I have been getting super triggered by Liz and then discussing/EMDR-ing the experience with Amy, but that is a whole 'nother story!

No, and I think that's part of the problem. LT, it seems to me like you are using him to fill a bunch of holes in your life--holes in your marriage (like, one example, he can discuss things with your daughter in a way it seems your husband can't), holes your parents left (the need for validation on some things, again your daughter as one example). That's a really tempting thing to do in therapy, and it's hard to avoid.

But that isn't his role, to make up for shortfalls elsewhere in your life, and the more you expect it to be, the more you will be disappointed. In fact, even if he did all the things you want or need or ask for, he probably shouldn't. He'd be creating dependency, and that can end badly (MC example).

He is who he is. Figure out how he is most useful to you, and let him fill that role. If you need more than that, it's not going to come from him.

Getting hijacked from myself is a good way to describe it. And it does feel like at times he just lists assorted coping skills, and I think I need something beyond that at times--perhaps like what DBT could offer? As I do have some borderline traits (I think you said you do as well), which Dr. T agrees with.


Sorry you keep getting triggered by Liz...that makes me think of how I'd end up using much of my ex-T sessions to discuss what happened in marriage counseling.

You make some good points here. I know some people in the past have suggested I need a T who is more humanistic and accepting than him, but I worry that would just lead to *more* dependence. I feel he has helped me in many ways (I notice I interact with my mother differently now, for example) and that I'm not quite done getting what I can from him yet. So maybe the solution is like what EM suggested, I add someone else on that works in a particular modality.

I was just reading about neurofeedback, and that's intriguing to me. In part because it can be used for sleep issues as well, which is something else I deal with. I imagine if I slept better, I'd function better. And from what I was reading, it seems like results can start to happen pretty quickly--not just for the sleep stuff, but for anxiety and other concerns. So it could be something to try for, say, a month, see how it goes. Or EMDR (thought that's a longer process). Or DBT. Or maybe somatic/body-focused therapy?

I think you can have acceptance and treat feelings sympathetically without validating them. I might expect the therapist I see to be accepting of certain feelings I have, such as my irrational anger at her, but she doesn't validate it. I think that's probably a good thing - I have also been angry at her for legitimate reasons and she has validated that. There were a couple times we disagreed and she was not validating. That was not good but I also wouldn't want her to lie, so better than a false validation. Anyway, I don't need her colluding with me to justify my dysregulation as something that is valid and not problematic.

I have received neurofeedback, though it's been quite a while. The results were not really drastic in the sense that I didn't notice anything had changed until I reflected later. It did make me quite sleepy, but that could just be a result of being still for an hour. It took a while to find a protocol that worked on me and did not actually trigger anxiety. I also ended up doing it while lying on a couch with my eyes closed, which I've never heard anybody else has done.

EMDR usually works pretty quickly for me (within a single session) for each specific incident. Like, before the session, that memory would make me tear up and feel bad, and immediately after EMDR I don't have the reaction anymore. It's more like, "Oh man, I felt really bad about that. What an unfortunate incident that was."

The closest analogy I can think of to before and after EMDR is a terrible break-up. When it first happens, it feels awful and like you will never be happy again. Then after time passes and life goes on, you think about that person and you just don't have those feelings anymore. You remember that you liked them a lot and that the break-up was hard, but you can't conjure up and re-experience the really awful feelings anymore, even if you tried.

EMDR is kind of a long process for childhood trauma in general, though, because there are lots of fragments and incidents and half-remembered things. It is more straightforward and faster for single-incident traumas that occur in adulthood. But it still beats letting the trauma fester and linger indefinitely!

EMDR doesn't do anything for me. Seems like it does for most people, though. Sitting there ruminating in silence about trauma is what it felt like. I've done enough of that in my life.

I get annoyed with EMDR because I feel like the whole time I am sitting there with my eyes closed doing all the work while my EMDR T just occasionally says, "Deep breath... What are you feeling now?... Okay, go with that."

Like, seriously? This is how we are spending this hour? But it seems to help, so I keep doing it, kicking and screaming the whole time.

I read on reddit recently that someone was doing EMDR and they opened their eyes to see their therapist texting. I mean, I get that it's probably really boring just sitting there, but that just seems so disrespectful. And she didn't stop when they saw her. After the second time they opened their eyes when she was doing it, they put the buzzers down because it was too upsetting.

My word, that seems extremely disrespectful.

That's pretty shocking behavior from the therapist. I'm going to have to peek at my EMDR T now. And it will probably be pretty awkward if she is staring at me like I presume she is supposed to be.

She did admit one time that she let the silence go on especially long because her mind had wandered to what the DBT-ish response would be to a thing we had been talking about. I feel fine about that, though, because she was still thinking about my stuff.

Wow, that's really awful for the EMDR T to be texting. I mean, I checked to make sure Dr. T's eyes were closed a couple times during the couple times we did a brief meditation exercise together. Wanted to make sure he wasn't staring awkwardly at me, but would have been really bad if he'd been texting.

Really good session with Dr. T today. We discussed some stuff that came up in this thread, among other things. Will share more later once my brain has processed some of it more.

Sorry, EM, didn't mean to make you worry about what your therapist is doing. I'm sure she's not texting in your session! I've only heard of a couple therapists getting caught playing on their phones during sessions (one was not EMDR, it was psychoanalysis where the client was on a couch facing away from the therapist). Of course, it seems like there are a bunch who think it's appropriate to interact with their phone in a blatant manner during regular therapy, but that's a whole different issue.

Most of my T's have maintained a pretty neutral stance on SH. None of them have really had a huge emotional response one way or the other. Some have asked to see it, others haven't. We deal with it a lot in my therapy because it's kind of the main problem that I'm there for. We are mostly doing safety planning lately. Do this. Then if it is still there do this. Then this. Then this. Then this. All the way until you get to the point where you have to go to the hospital. I would like my T's to be more empathetic about the SH but I don't think it's going to happen. But interestingly, they want me to be empathetic with myself about it. But they don't model that. Hmmm. HUGS Kit

Oh, no worries. I don't really think my EMDR T would do that. I am just curious about what she looks like when I am not looking at her. The most annoying phone-related thing she has done was forget to silence it and get eight million notifications (also when I was trying to focus on EMDR), and she was apologetic and corrected it. For a while, the people in the office next door had a somewhat noisy baby which was incredibly distracting but not her fault.

Aah yes me too!! Just wanted to say THANK YOU for writing this, I’m glad it’s not just me who feels that way about EMDR!!

Thanks for sharing your experience, SK. It's hard to be empathetic to yourself...and I certainly get the desire for them to be more empathetic.


I do understand why they go with the neutral stance--Dr. T explained a bit more today. I said how I sort of wanted him to validate how, even though I know intellectually that it makes sense to be neutral, the more emotional or maybe younger part of me did sort of want more empathy from him. And that it would help to know he understood that, even if he wasn't willing to give it. He said that he did understand my feeling that way (and seemed genuine about it). It helped to hear him say that. And really maybe that's all I needed, for it to seem that he understands.

“...(though he agreed that H had, as he put it, a "case of asshole-itis").”

I am speechless.

Why does that leave you speechless?

Also curious! Because of the cursing or something else?

Maybe because of all people your therapist shouldn’t be diagnosing others with asshole-itis...pot, kettle.

In my opinion, “asshole-itis” is an unkind and cruel word to be used by a professional in a professional setting. It’s also judgmental and disrespectful. There are kinder and gentler word choices for discussing tough/frustrating situations. I can’t imagine any one of us here would be happy to learn that our spouse’s therapist used that word to describe our own behavior. Okay, I’m not all that speechless after all!

No, but I would be more bothered by a spouse tattling on their therapist, which would be the only way I could possibly find out about such a characterization. A spouse doing that would be trying to hurt me by triangulating.

Besides, sometimes people are assholes. Sure, you can sugar coat it and put it "kindly," but that minimizes the experience of the victim of the asshole. Seems crueler to me to safeguard the feelings of parties who aren't present and have no reason to ever be hurt by phrasing being divulged over that of the client who is actually sitting right there.

Also, sometimes I am an asshole. I might not like it if someone has the nerve to describe my behavior in such terms, but just because it's my own behavior and I don't like being called out doesn't mean I think calling me an asshole is invalid. Sometimes it is. I'm not perfect. I definitely don't feel entitled to be affronted at someone calling me an asshole to their therapist if I've been an asshole.