[Bickle]

A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics.

I have reviewed the state ethics code and can find nothing to match this claim. Once the patient gives informed consent it’s smooth sailing

Am I missing something?.

[Amyjay]

You might be missing that maybe that particular therapist isn't happy doing family therapy. They don't have to. It can definitely be a conflict of interest to meet with others known to the client.

[nottrustin]

I suspect it may be because the more people who are added to therapy, the more complicated it gets. I may seem like smooth said but it is likely to be anything but.

[unaluna]

You cant make the therapist do something that they feel is not in your best interest. Like you cant boss them around like this. Here the patient is calling it "informed consent", but that definition is usually left up to treating physician.

Plus the role of a therapist is not to be the judge of arguments or arbiter of truth between family members.

[Iloivar]

I think they've made it more than clear that they won't be agreeing to your request, and they have the right to do that.

If you really want to know, you can ask them to explain further, and I suppose you can still inquire if there's still some confusion. But if you do, do that with the above in mind.

[winter4me]

Originally Posted by Bickle

A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics.

I have reviewed the state ethics code and can find nothing to match this claim. Once the patient gives informed consent it’s smooth sailing

Am I missing something?.

You are not missing anything. It would not be a violation of professional ethics if the patient and family are OK with this. It obviously would be very uncomfortable for this therapist (who may believe it an ethical breach)---It sounds as though it might be good to find another T (not necessarily to give up this one if it is working well for the individual) who is comfortable doing Family therapy---This T should be able to give a referral to someone more skilled and comfortable with working with families.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by Bickle

A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics.

I have reviewed the state ethics code and can find nothing to match this claim. Once the patient gives informed consent it’s smooth sailing

Am I missing something?.

How do you know this?

[Bickle]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

You might be missing that maybe that particular therapist isn't happy doing family therapy. They don't have to. It can definitely be a conflict of interest to meet with others known to the client.

It’s not family therapy. It’s more like the witness stand so they can see the pathology. How do you know which are the lies without corroboration?

[Bickle]

Originally Posted by IceCreamKid

How do you know this?

How do I know what?

[Bickle]

Originally Posted by unaluna

You cant make the therapist do something that they feel is not in your best interest. Like you cant boss them around like this. Here the patient is calling it "informed consent", but that definition is usually left up to treating physician.

Plus the role of a therapist is not to be the judge of arguments or arbiter of truth between family members.

I’m not the patient. Informed consent is a legal term. The fact that they’re a compulsive liar is not in question. How do you treat a liar when you have no way to know when they lie?

“I don’t wanna” is not a justification. She agreed to treat this patient and is deliberately handicapping it.

informed consent

permission granted in the knowledge of the possible consequences, typically that which is given by a patient to a doctor for treatment with full knowledge of the possible risks and benefits.

[Omers]

It may violate their professional ethics even if, in theory, waivers could be signed allowing the meeting. I know my T has refused to allow some people from my life to come to session but is very welcoming of others. He does state it as a professional ethics boundary... it is complicated but I can see what he is getting at.
One example was my son as my T 1. Did not feel competent to deal with my sons mental health issues 2. Felt that becoming involved in my parenting might threaten our other therapeutic work/relationship 3. That my son might become destructive and again, the dynamic may impact my work with T. T did however let my husband come to a session.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Bickle

I’m not the patient. Informed consent is a legal term. The fact that they’re a compulsive liar is not in question. How do you treat a liar when you have no way to know when they lie?

“I don’t wanna” is not a justification. She agreed to treat this patient and is deliberately handicapping it.

Still, "informed consent" implies information is given by the doctor that is consented to by the person being treated. Like, if you have this operation you may die. What is the parallel here?

The therapist does not function as a human lie-detector test or machine. The therapist creates a safe space where perhaps one day the patient may be able to tell the truth.

My parents taught me to lie to them. Thereafter, even when i told the truth, they thought i was lying. Sometimes i was, but mostly i wasnt. But they started it when they promised they wouldnt punish me if only i would tell the truth, then laughed and said it was a trick to get me to confess and punished me. The trick part really hurt. Why does your liar lie?

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by Bickle

How do I know what?

You wrote:

"A therapist treating a compulsive liar has refused, despite the patients repeated requests they do so, to meet with other family members o hear their sides claiming it is a violation of professional ethics."

If you are not the patient, how do you know about the therapist's refusal?

I just want to suggest that sometimes people do not always tell the truth when they report what their therapist said. I am not even suggesting that the person is lying; it could very well be they report what they think the therapist said or meant. It sounds to me like the therapist does not want to do this and so the patient has two choices: either try whatever else the therapist is suggesting, or find another therapist who will have the kind of group meeting you are talking about.

[Salmon77]

It’s more like the witness stand so they can see the pathology.

Therapy isn't a prosecution and it's not an interrogation. It's a place where the client gets to talk, in private, and I'm afraid other family members aren't usually welcome.

I'd think a decent therapist would notice if their client lied a lot but I suppose it depends. Some people are good liars.

[cakelover]

Hi, Bickle.

I don't think it is necessary to bring the family to identify lies or fact-check in order to treat the pathology itself. I would even go further and say that in psychotherapy it actually doesn't matter if what a person is saying is the truth or a lie, because what is going to happen there is finding out what is the purpose of what the person is saying, the words they choose and the meaning of the stories they tell...

I found an article explaining how treatment for pathological lying works ("What to Do When Your Client is a Pathological Liar"), and I thought it could help you, but since I'm a new member, they won't let me share it

Just Google it if you are interested.

Best regards!

[sarahsweets]

I am curious as to what your relationship is with the person in question?