Couch 216: The Baseball Couch

I cant believe my psychological emotional abusive ex has a real men dont hit women attachment on his messenger

Is it possible that he felt embarrassed about his display of emotion? He seems pretty buttoned up, so I could imagine that getting teary and expressing his pride toward a client would be uncharacteristically mushy for him. He thinks of himself as non-nurturing, right? So that kind of lovely, warm moment would probably be pretty perplexing to him afterward, which might make him want to minimize it or even try to forget it.

Also, it is sooo understandable to want to revisit that moment with him and bask in the feeling again. Believe me, I've been there. If you have been starving for all that good parental stuff, you'll return to the source for more at any cost. So very normal in terms of human development and attachment.

@SummerTime12, I'm glad you're getting a second opinion! Also, this situation is not your fault, even if you did ask. It's his job to maintain the boundaries. The ethical thing to do here would have been to explore why you were asking the question and what the answer might mean to you. That's therapy. Him answering (especially with that level of detail!) is not therapy. It's creepy.

I've discussed my therapist's sexuality and whatever assumptions or ideas I have had about it (like when she was leaving to go on her honeymoon). It's clearly fine with her for me to talk about how I feel or what I am curious about, but she has never revealed any details.

I always want to know what's inside the head of psychologically abusive people. It seems like some unenlightened people think physical abuse is the only kind of abuse, even though psychological abuse can be just as damaging.

I miss my therapist again today. I don't know what is wrong with me. I hope I am not getting attached to her. It's too painful when the therapy ends if one is attached.

The layering effect - pandemic restrictions on top of everything else...is really getting to me.

HUGS @LostOnTheTrail

I agree that he might have been embarrassed. Earlier this year (I know it was while still meeting in his office), I mentioned something sort of offhandedly about how Dr. T had seemed to wipe a away a tear or two a few times recently and something about my being OK with it (I find it validating, and it makes him seem more human, though I didn't say that last part!), and he deflected it with some sort of joke (I forget what it was, but I gave him an easy opening for it). I kind of wanted to discuss it more but sensed he might be uncomfortable about it. I've noticed him wipe a tear or two during a few Zoom sessions, but tend to look away when I notice it and don't bring it up.

And, like EM, I definitely understand why you would want to revisit the moment. And to maybe have him say something like "It's because I really care about you" or something (I know it's the sort of thing I'd want to hear, at least).

5 months today since I was hospitalized at the mental hospital so lots of bad memories today. The stupid ER doctor who had me held on a 5150. I think it's almost comical. I requested, and received, my hospital notes. It said something about my affect being good and my responsiveness being good. If I was truly SUI I would not have had a good affect or a good or maybe any responsiveness. I still can't believe three doctors thought I was sui even though I told each of them that I wasn't in a very calm and even tone. I wasn't upset or crying or anything. Ugh. Then the hospital itself, I didn't even have sheets on the bed for two days. Just a bare mattress, the two blankets that the ambulance crew had stolen from the first hospital, and a comforter that the staff kind of lobbed in my direction when I was going to bed when I first got there in the middle of the night. My pets have better bedding than that! Inhuman. Ugh. I was trying to talk to my parents on my lunch break from work about how I'm having thoughts about the hospital but they don't get it. They literally were like turn that frown upside down and turn it into a smile. Am I a five year old? No. I don't want the 25th of each month to be a bad memory. So far it is. I'm trying to think of something positive, so you know, 6 months til Christmas! That's something. I have Monday off of work for my birthday and I'm going to the aquarium. That's something. I have Friday off of work next week for the 4th of July since the 4th lands on Saturday we get Friday off. So I have a three day work week. That's pretty cool. Ugh. It's not working.

Yeah, I do wonder if he was embarrassed. He cried once before in session and he said he wasn't embarrassed but I just don't know if I believe him.

I am totally perplexed about why this is messing me up so very badly. I wasn't messed up after the "I'm proud of you" moment itself--that just felt nice. What got to me was when we tried to talk about it later and it felt like he was being... I dunno, dismissive? Avoidant? It seemed like he didn't want to talk about it any more but I did. And I wanted to know more about what he had been feeling, but he wanted to discuss what I assumed he was feeling, what I wanted him to be feeling... but, like, what I wanted to know was what he was *actually* feeling at the time, not my random guesses about his interior state.

He also implied that it seemed like maybe by asking him about that moment, I was wanting more of this emotion from him, which felt accusatory. Like I was trying to extract something that wasn't there, or something that I didn't deserve, or something that was wrong for me to have.

I think one reason this is making me so unhinged is that it feels familiar somehow, like when my dad says he's feeling one thing but actually is feeling another thing and then he can't contain his real feeling and then the real feeling bursts out in a scary way? Vs. it feels like I'm butting up against the boundaries of the therapeutic relationship (i.e. T won't tell me what he's feeling because that's Not Good Therapy), which is hard because it feels like I want more than I can have which is excruciating. Vs him saying he's proud of me is something my dad does and my dad also does scary things sometimes. Vs I hardly ever cry and can't imaging myself crying because I was proud of somebody so I am legitimately perplexed about wtf he was feeling.

I just don't know. I had to stay up all last night because I'm on the night shift this week and if I don't stay up all night on my days off my sleep schedule gets all screwy. And I was so upset I almost went to the ED. I'm perplexed and embarrassed that I am so super messed up about this. I just don't get it. I can't seem to sort through it by myself. But talking to T about this feels so bad and invalidating and hard that I don't want to talk about it with him either.

This sucks.

I'm sorry, chihiro. This is exactly why I'm in therapy with one therapist to talk about therapy with the other therapist. It sounds ridiculous, but honestly it's been helping a lot with figuring out why I feel the way I do and how I can feel better. It helps that the therapist causing the problems (the mother figure, if you will) is more analytic and the other therapist is much more concrete/practical. I get the depth and associated disquietude with one and the ability to find my way out of the dang woods with the other.

I'm not trying to hit you over the head with the ol' "get a second opinion," but if this relationship keeps pushing you to the brink, I think maybe you owe it to yourself to experiment with something that can break the pattern.

Is he wrong, though, even if it felt accusatory rather than understanding when he brought it up? As for everything in your second sentence, I am not going to gaslight you and pretend like it isn't entirely plausible that he managed to convey those messages without actually saying them explicitly. He might feel that way, or may simply be using covert disapproval to discourage additional prodding at a vulnerable moment he experienced because it's uncomfortable for him and because therapy isn't really supposed to be about delving into the therapist's emotions.

We humans communicate so much indirectly.

If you were, in fact, seeking connection through this discussion, the way he responded would understandably feel like rejection. So I can understand why you're upset - especially given the rejection was couched in a way that "put you in your place," so to speak. What I mean by that is running into therapeutic boundaries conveyed in a way that could be perceived as disapproval. I always feel put in my place whenever the therapist says tiny things that remind me the way I feel should not be acted on because it's inappropriate. For example, I almost had a meltdown last week because I texted her about something and she said "We have a lot to talk about next week." My mind read this as "leave me alone until your next session and you're in trouble for harassing me." I think the only drop of truth in there was that she probably didn't want me texting her all weekend.

I'm sorry, Chihiro. I completely understand your reaction. It makes me think of times that Dr. T has said things like he shouldn't be the one to reassure me or to provide certain things because of his role as a T, how I should be getting them from other people in my life and, ultimately, from myself.. But of course I still want them from him.


In a separate post, I'm going to share the email I sent to Dr. T yesterday, as something about it seems similar, not necessarily what I actually wrote in the email, but some of the emotion behind it.

Exchange with Dr. T last night/this morning:
Me: "So today I had one of those delayed reactions to session. Where I felt really sad about it starting an hour later. In talking it through a bit with [friend], I think much of session felt like you basically saying "You're doing it wrong" to me. It seemed how most every example I gave, you said I was problem-solving, which was the wrong step. I know intellectually that you were trying to be helpful and improve my chances at successful communication with [H]. And [friend] said we need people to call us out on our bull****, which is true.

But it's like the insecure, perfectionist part of me was triggered. I felt sort of like I do when my mom is critical of me. And I know, you were trying to help me. But it felt like nothing I said was right, like no example of "Maybe I could say this to [H]." I feel it also particularly affected me because you seemed especially empathetic and supportive during Monday's session regarding stuff with [D] and [H]. I felt really validated and heard then, and like I wasn't overreacting. And then today it sort of felt like you went into THERAPIST mode, rather than "[LT's] therapist" mode, if that makes any sense. I guess i just wasn't feeling the empathy or connection, just the "here's what you're doing wrong and what you need to do instead."


Again, I imagine you didn't intend it to come out that way, or at least not for me to interpret it that way. And connection is harder over Zoom. Just struggling...and attempting unsuccessfully to hide my tears from [H]. (I know, this could be a good opening to a conversation with him, I just can't do it right now.) I know this is something to talk about Friday, but any thoughts (however brief or long) in response to this are welcome."

Dr. T: "Hi [LT], I’m sorry to read that you had such a negative reaction to my suggestions on how to communicate better with [H]. While I stand by those suggestions as being important and relevant, I don’t want you feel chastised or criticized by my presentation. As you suggest, we can talk more about this Friday. I hope you appreciate that I do not think you are doing anything wrong. Communication is very challenging, and my suggestions were intended to help things move along more successfully – they were not intended as a criticism."

I appreciated his reply. I really do think much of it is that I felt so much empathy/caring from him a few times in the past couple weeks, that when it seems like he's switching more into sort of an instructional mode, it feels lacking (even though I explicitly asked him for help with a particular communication issue last session...)

I dont think this is fair ut the deputy principal said that in a unit if a pupil has completed 4 out 5 assessments and the 5 one is late there is no special consideration and the first 4 assessments arent considered its an instant fail for that unit these arent the school rules its the education departments rule. He said they are making incredibly hard for pupils to get there final certificate

He always hated that i earned more than him and he gradually wore down my mental health til i was only capable of working part time due to thinking i was a piece of ****.

Huh. So did my first h. I didnt even know how much he made. Later my coworkers told me they thought i was heading for a nervous breakdown, end quote. Which was probably the last time anybody used the term. It fell out of fashion.

We finally got our backyard emptied of the tree branches/limbs and the neighborhood brush & bulky pickup carried it all away today. Well I think I heard them out there using a chipper thingy first. It was a LOT of work but we did it ourselves and didn't have to hire it out!! I took 3 days off work last week and we got 'er done and I am proud of us.

How long ago was that? Just curious, no pressure. I called mine a nervous breakdown in 2010 that led me to pdoc and eventually to L. Wow, that was 10 years ago already. Dang. I sure wish I'd known about PC back then. It would have been helpful while I was in the middle of my breakdown/the worst of my depression. I didn't find y'all until after I'd already been in therapy for awhile.

I just read a thread on Twitter where an anti-masker said her husband had to wear a mask on a business trip and it gave him chlamydia.

That can't be real. Nobody can be that stupid, surely...

Anybody here seen a nephrologist?

Surely they were joking, right?

Also, thanks for bringing us the word "doomscrolling" a while back. Exactly a word we need in "these unprecedented times." (a phrase I would like to never hear again)

I hoped so...but their other comments indicated that that was about their level of intelligence.

I think it was HL Mencken who said no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

EM: there is also “doomsurfing.”

what was he using for a mask though... nevermind I don't even want to think about it!