[MissCharlotte]

Yesterday in session the adult me was present the whole time. I was talking about my career plans. T has a wonderful way of making it all seem possible. I love him for that.

It is very difficult for me to stay in my adult state for that long and when I do I begin to feel distant from T. Isn't that weird? I suppose my child state has been present more often than not and the adult me is afraid of intimacy. It gets so confusing.

At one point in session, I drifted just a bit, for a second and T asked where I went. Frankly, I had gone to a point earlier in the day when I was really completely agitated and si'd. But I didn't want to go there so I sort of just brushed it off and said I was agitated earlier in the day and was trying to remember the context. T didn't push me on this and I was able to return to the conversation. Maybe he sensed my need to stay as my adult self. Maybe he was just too tired. He did seem tired yesterday.

I'm trying to put my finger on the whole session which was sort of not filled with our usual context. I'm thinking he reminded me of my mother. She really wasn't present very much for me. She was exhausted all the time. But sometimes, when she was present, she could give of herself intellectually, even though she was exhausted. It was a rare occasion but it was there for sure. Yes, I think we re-enacted one of those exchanges.

Sigh

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It is very difficult for me to stay in my adult state for that long and when I do I begin to feel distant from T. Isn't that weird?

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not to me.. it doesn't seem weird at all. It seems like whenever we get "serious" or more intellectual, part of me pulls at me... makes me drift away or ruins my concentration. Things get hazy and i will have trouble remembering what it is said. i don't feel i have a child vs adult state but i do believe i have a thinking vs feeling state.. and the feeling side hates being ignored or is prone to feeling ignored. To be honest, i think T likes or prefers the thinking side... but that could be just my perception.

give yourself some credit for doing the work that needs doing.. can't ignore either state, gotta address them both.. maybe the child state is more demanding and reallu "rules the roost" so to speak... ? either way.. it isn't right or wrong, it just is. Give yourself a big hug for me.

I know that for me, there is a younger, much more vulnerable version of me that I only allow to show in therapy. And he accepts and cares for that part of me - like no one actually did when I WAS younger. It feels nurturing and important to let that part of me out in therapy. I think it's where the healing comes from, and it's when I feel closest to him, and it's when I actually sometimes FEEL my feelings. It feels like a very deep, secret part of myself.

I think because that is the part of me with the feelings, I definitely feel more distant from T when things are more adult/intellectual. I didn't realize that until I read your post, Miss C. I don't like to feel distant from T, I do know that!

Maybe part of therapy for both of us is allowing that ADULT part of ourselves to be vulnerable and intimate?

(((((((((((((((( Miss C )))))))))))))))))))

[Behindthemoon]

Trust me , you were much too nervous and you should have taken it easy.

[ECHOES]

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Isn't that weird?

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I don't think it's weird at all. I think that's where are needs are.

I feel lonely when it's an "adults-only" session. The child me feels left out and often lets me know about it afterwards.

[chaotic13]

Like Jello I kind of have a intellectual me and a feeling me. My problems is that I can't seem to bring the feeling me to therapy. I can describe situations but when I am asked what something felt like or what I'm feeling, I can't connect. Then I get hit hard by the feeling me after the session (usually like 3 AM). Luckily, who ever I bring with me to therapy seems to record everything. When I journal afterwards, the feeling me seems to pick up certain comments and insights provided by my T that were totally dismissed or left unacknowledged by the intellectual me during the session.

[pachyderm]

For me I think the adult state is hard to stay in, because it was never approved when I was younger, and I find it hard to believe it will be approved of now.

pachyderm... from whom is it that you now seek approval? Can you foresee giving that to yourself?

[MissCharlotte]

Thanks all for your insight. I am thinking that the child me was so desperate for mother's attention that she took what she could get. Sometimes it was nothing but sometimes it was an intellectual encouragement because that was all she had to offer.

So, in those exchanges there was no acknowledgment of feeling, but there WAS some meaningful exchange. Is it possible to have an exchange without feeling? Or was the feeling buried by me a long time ago. Yes, I do think that I wanted to feel even back then but that was disallowed in my family. Rule # 1 was Thou Shalt Not Feel.

It feels now that there is a tinge of disappointment here. A longing from long ago and a regret from just yesterday, when I couldn't feel. And yes, it was the adult me but the child was in the back row of the theatre, so to speak.

Peace

[sunrise]

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MissCharlotte said:
T has a wonderful way of making it all seem possible. I love him for that.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">That really is wonderful. I get this sometimes from my T too. He's very positive and empowering. It's so great to have someone like this in one's life. (My family is soooo negative.)

I'm finding the discussion of who each person "brings to therapy" to be really interesting. I have several child ego states, including a teen, and sometimes they come to therapy, but not often. We worked with one of the little girls early on in therapy, and sometimes they pop in when I have flashbacks. There have been times when I wanted T to work with the teen, but I felt he rejected her, so she hasn't come around in ages. I don't think I have split thinking/feeling sides. I'm more integrated, or let them both out often. Since starting to see my T, I have learned to let my feelings out more and so the feeling me is often there in therapy. But I'm very analytical and intellectual and that part is rarely gone. I think I just bring both those parts with me every time to therapy, they're quite merged. T makes it safe to be that way. I am also learning to let out my feelings more outside of therapy. But sometimes outside of therapy, I can really get whacked (by my "enemies") if I let my feelings come out.

[chaotic13]

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A longing from long ago and a regret from just yesterday, when I couldn't feel.

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So Miss C are you saying here that you regret not being able to feel things sometimes? When you think back to past events, are there things that you think you should have felt but didn't?

[MissCharlotte]

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so the feeling me is often there in therapy. But I'm very analytical and intellectual and that part is rarely gone

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Yes Sunny, I experience both of those aspects of myself but rarely simultaneously. I was left unintegrated and this is my goal in therapy--to know my whole self.

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My family is soooo negative.

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Mine to Sunny--it's a lot to shake off and even more to maintain once you've managed to put it behind you, isn't it?

[MissCharlotte]

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So Miss C are you saying here that you regret not being able to feel things sometimes

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Yes, indeed, I do regret those moments when I am numb. It's a funny quandary because I distinctly recall in the beginning of therapy when things would come up and I would ask T how to get rid of it! LOL Now, I would rather feel the pain than not. And that is progress for me.

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When you think back to past events, are there things that you think you should have felt but didn't?

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Well, that's an interesting one. I guess the longing from long ago, is a longing for some validation of my childhood experience. The validation would have allowed me to be visible. The brain is an amazing protective organ. When children are faced with overwhelming experience, the brain takes over creating amnesia, dissociation and basically protects the child because the child does not have the capacity to manage the experience. But that also takes away the feeling state. I think that in therapy we are able to experience some of those feelings that were buried out of necessity.

[pachyderm]

> from whom is it that you now seek approval?

Anyone and everyone, it seems. Whether or not I do so openly.

> Can you foresee giving that to yourself?

Maybe. It is not easy.

((((((((((((MissC))))))))))))))),
I am at a loss for any words of wisdom here but wanted you to know that I care. Love ya'

[chaotic13]

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Well, that's an interesting one. I guess the longing from long ago, is a longing for some validation of my childhood experience.

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So by validation do you mean you want your parents to say...Hey we ___ up, you have a right to be angry...you have good reason for being the way you are etc. Or is it that you would like someone to say... yes, I was there, I saw what happened to you or what you endured, its not just all in your head, your childhood sucked.

Sorry if I am off base. Just trying to understand what you wrote.

I sometimes feel like things weren't all that bad and I have no real reason for being the detached %#@&amp;#! I am today. Having someone who was there might help me decide if I was justified in adapting the way I did or if I was just exaggerating the threats. Then again, I guess if I was justified or not, or if life was actually worse or better than I remember is irrelevant. It's what I do now that really matters.

[MissCharlotte]

Chaotic,

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do you mean you want your parents to say...Hey we ___ up, you have a right to be angry..

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Wow, I never even conjured that up. My experience was so obliterated that they literally DID NOT speak about my childhood prior to age 12 when my father sobered up. My parents are no longer alive, but talk about denial....

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yes, I was there, I saw what happened to you or what you endured, its not just all in your head, your childhood sucked.

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Yeah, I think that is more like the longing I would benefit from. If only one of my siblings would validate my experience. But you know, everyone's experience is different; even in the same family. So, for example, my sister who I feel closest to is six years younger than me. So that means she never experienced the abusive rage of my alcoholic father who sobered up when I was 12 and she was 6. When he was beating my brother and me, she was a baby in the crib and she was spared his rage. Unfortunately, the fallout from her lack of experience with this a huge invalidation for me. She denies my experience in order to preserve her memory of the good father. It is devastating for me.

[chaotic13]

I see.
I get your experience living in a home where the alcoholic rages and just plain stupidity: crying, walking into walls, pissing in trash cans, and many other things were not talked about inside or outside. Both my parents are deceased as well. My brother is still alive, unfortunately he thinks the memories are funny and plays the "Do you remember when Dad thought you stole one of his Schlitz beers from the frig... That was so funny..." game. All I can do is say, "yeah I remember." Inside I'm thinking.. dad was a real butthead, and your a real butthead for thinking it is still funny at 45. Between my mother's Diet Fresca and my dad's cheap beer, I'd choose the polluted creek water behind the house.LOL

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...everyone's experience is different; even in the same family.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> So here you seem to be saying, the longing feels like it is for someone to validate your childhood experiences. But they can't because they didn't experience stuff the same way you did. Therefore, really it is you who you need most to validate them and how they really impacted you??? When you use the term visible are you meaning acknowledged to yourself, to others, or both? Is this where you are or am I totally off base?

[MissCharlotte]

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herefore, really it is you who you need most to validate them and how they really impacted you??

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YES!!! That is it! Developing the capacity for self knowledge and trust of my own knowing and my own truth is my work right now. This goes beyond acknowledgement, and into a realm where the actual damage to the child self is accepted and known by me.

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When you use the term visible are you meaning acknowledged to yourself, to others, or both?

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Actually, here I mean something quite different. When I was a kid, I dissociated -- split away from myself--in order to avoid unmanageable pain--both physical and emotional. Beyond the abuse there was constant neglect and frankly I am beginning to realize that was worse. So, to be visible invoked pain of punishment simply for being. So I "checked out." I guess that what I meant is that if (back then) others had known or validated my pain (mother, sibs, whoever) then maybe I wouldn't have had to check out. For now, there is no going back on that card. My sibs have decided how they wish to remember the horrors of our childhood by denying most of it in the same way my mother did. They have chosen to identify with her on that count and there is little I can do about that. In fact, I used to crave their affirmations, now I don't care.

Wow, I know it sounds harsh, but in fact, I think I am healing.

[chaotic13]

That does sound really tough to deal with--the group denial thing. My brother doesn't deny stuff happened, he just thinks it funny or that it was no big deal from his perspective. That is a lot easier to deal with I think than collective avoidance or memory gaps. Ignorance is bliss, unfortunately we don't have that luxury anymore so we find ways to deal with it I guess. Sounds like you and your T are doing that.

I'm reading an interesting book right now called the "New Earth" by Eckart Tolle. I know I'm a few months late because Oprah did a big online series on this book. Anyway, the book is interesting but nothing new. One line in it that seem to click with me recently was: "The past has no power to stop you from being present now. Only your grievance about the past can do that." I think some of the authors comments about overcoming past issue is a bit simplistic but, this one stuck in my mind.

Thank for helping me understand your post better.

[MissCharlotte]

Chaotic,

I enjoyed our discussion--we could be in therapy together!

It seems that everyone I speak to is reading Eckart Tole. I'm so backed up on books, but he's about being in the here and now, right?

I do believe in working on staying in the now. But it can't be done at the expense of ignoring the past. The integration can only take place if we acknowledge the past and the grief it brings up. Somehow we need to walk alongside it, so that it doesn't consume us now.

Sigh.

Thanks.