A Why Do They Do That Question

I had a fairly difficult session this week. I'm kind of hating my T at the moment (SORRY, DocJohn not bashing the profession just expressing my likely displaced feelings...) In trying to settle down I am curious about something my T seems to do deliberately. I just want to know if it is a ... necessary part of therapy, a specific technique or something.

Current state of things from my (the patient's) perspective:

OK... First like most of you... my childhood was less than ideal. I don't believe that I completely...dissociate(d)...however I seem to be quite skilled at distancing myself or tuning out certain things. However I coped with stressful events in the past has left me with some major memory gaps. I am trying my best to "deal" with the issues of my past but these memory gaps make that difficult for me. I try to avoid making assumptions about what actually did or didn't happen. Mainly I feel that since I can't remember specific events that I need to be careful that my mind just doesn't make something up (maybe a plausible event or interpretation) to fill the gaps.

The bottomline is...I don't remember a lot of specifics about some of my experiences. I know I am hypersensitive to certain things like touch and smell. Even the slightest detection that someone is becoming volatile or emotionally charge send my whole body into a state of...heighten alert. I know that I was under what feels like constant threat of physical and sexual assault by several boys where were considerably older than I was. I am not sure how much of a threat I was REALLY under. What I mean here is you know as a child you might have felt like the bully at school was really going to KILL you in the gym locker room; but in all actually the most that could happen was that he/she would get off a few pushes or punches before a friend or teacher intervened. Your life was never really in danger.

Most of my discussion during the therapy sessions lately has been about the present. But during my last session, I attempted to talk a little bit about my abuse mainly because one of my childhood friends is very sick and I want to go visit but I don't want to bring old baggage with me.

Well, not sooner I start talking about this relationship...it leads into a discussion about some mental noise (frequency) I recently experienced... and after great reluctance... I share some of the thoughts I had recorded on my phone's electronic notepad immediately following my mental noise episode....well after my T read this... she hands the phone back and says..."Can you send me a copy of that, I'd like to review it more closesly." Well, the alarm bells sound in my head! This pissed me off because I wasn't really feeling all that comfortable with her reading it to begin with and I REALLY didn't want it to become part of my medical record. So me being the expressive person I am... I simply said.."No, I don't want that in my file." We move on.

We continue talking about my friend and how she has a lot of memories about the past that I don't have and how part of me just wants to flat out ask my friend..."Hey, you know that stuff that happened to you... was I like actually there and... can you fill me in on specific details?" My T is like "DO IT!" and I'm like "No, I don't think it is fair of me to ask someone to go back and rehash painful memories just to help me remember and sort out what is real and what is not real." So as we are having this conversation, my T starts repeated using words that she KNOWS I don't like to hear, and defining different terms and asking me for clarifications, and how I know what I do know. In reviewing my mental recording of this session it is CLEAR that she repeatedly and deliberately used and defined these words as if trying to shock or trigger me. Now I am not the sharpest tool, but I clearly understand the these terms and their legal definitions...I don't need to hear rape, assault, and penetration and all that over and over again...yet she just kept going with it. I had told her when we had gone here before several months ago that her spouting off definition and being so... frank bothered me... a lot. When I reflect back on the exchange... I don't think she was attacking me or being deliberately mean...but I do think she was rattle me.

After all this.... my question is...IS THIS SOME THERAPY TECHNIQUE? To repeat triggering words until your patient finally can't resist the urge to up and smack you? What is the point of doing this? What benefit was I supposed to gain from listening to these terms repeatedly used? Is this really necessary? Am I in some stage or phase in a treatment protocol?

I just need to understand this.

Well, therapy would be great if we just talked about the weather for 50 minutes but therapy is therapy. It can be painful. I don't know for sure about how your T does things but sometimes 'careful' triggering is used. You said that you have some memories but with lots of gaps. In therapy the gaps of the memories can be filled in.

The feeling of wanting to smack the therapist is actually a good emotion to come out. As long as you are not actually leaping up and smacking T right in the chops, see if you can let your T know verbally how you feel.

Sounds like you are doing good stuff in therapy, ask T to slow down a bit if it gets too much.

The closest I have experienced to that in therapy was with the word "abuse." After a number of months, when T had learned of my experiences, he would refer to them as "abuse," and I was very uncomfortable with that. Very resistant and I would cringe when he said it and say I didn't identify with it or that I wasn't abused. He would not stop using the word when I said this. He would continue to call it abuse in our sessions if we were talking about it (calling a spade a spade). He didn't push the topic on me, but if we were talking about it, he wasn't going to deny my abuse just because I was. I think he felt an important mission of his was to get me to agree I had been abused. He didn't harp on it or try to desensitize me or anything, but if the conversation was about abuse, he would not use a euphemism. It took me ages to be able to say I had experienced abuse. He gave me books to read and in them I saw myself and this helped me a lot to admit to it. I still don't like to use the word, but I know inside it applies to me.

Anyway, chaotic, it's not quite the same as what you are experiencing with your T, but maybe somewhat similar.

Remember, you can always try to set limits with your T on her behavior. Your efforts may not be successful, but you can try. "Do not use those words with me today." "I don't want to talk about this right now." I think a T should back off if the client indicates they cannot handle a certain topic at the moment. Because I think when a T (especially a male in session with a female client who has been "forced" in the past by a male), pushes too agressively against the client's will, it can feel very invasive--like abuse and rape all over again. If the T is being too forceful and won't stop, you can always draw the line and say, "I've had enough today" or "I don't feel safe anymore" and walk out.

I think having frequent sessions can help with this, because if you are only going once every few weeks, the T may try to "do more" in your sessions. When you meet regularly, it is easier to unwrap things gradually.

Hmmm...in my youth she would have definitely been smacked... luckily that is one problem that I've overcome. I guess I'm not sure how me getting angry with her...is something good. I'll have to think on that one more.

As for verbalizing, I'm still working on that. We had a short email exchange a day later that went something like:

T: ...I know, I really do, how difficult this is.

ME: "No you don't or you wouldn't have said x,y,z a million times."

T: Yes there was some shock factor to those words I know. I'm sorry. I wasn't sure you were ready to hear that....but I had to ask.

I don't know... I know I am over reacting but... no I don't think she had to ask and go through all that again. We had already covered that ground. I don't know I guess that is just what therapy is going over and over the same **** until it no longer bothers you to hear or say certain things.

My T's a female... and I've already determined that---I can take her down without much effort . But the this tactic did feel very invasive.
I was just waiting for her to say... "Ah... refresh my memory... what was the _____ that really bothers you again." Stuff like that really bothers me because, rarely does her memory really need refreshing. Its like the school teacher asking the student..."Can you help me solve this math problem? I'm having trouble remembering how to do it."

I am aware that only part of my anger is about what she actually said and that most of the real anger is related to the past. Again I'm not stupid, I know this not about just the use of a few words.

I think the thing that really irks me even more today is ...and I hate to admit this to myself: After I had the email exchange and vented a bit of my anger, I felt bad. After I realized that I was displacing some of this anger towards her, I go worried that my questioning her approach would piss her off. In an attempt to "fix" this and reassure the therapeutic relationship.. I apologized and freaken sent her the transcript she requested during the session! WHY DID I DO THAT! I did not want to do that!!! Today when I look back over the emails I sent... they were not inappropriate, rude, or anything that should piss off a professional. She had written something, I contested it, she acknowledge my point, appologized, and justified it somewhat. No big deal! I did nothing that warrented an apology or would have threathen the relationship; but I went into "**** got to fix things mode and ended up doing something I didn't want to do." .... NOW, THIS IS A BEHAVIOR PATTERN THAT CAUSES ME A LOT OF PROBLEMS TODAY and needs to be avoided. Hmmm... I guess her pissing me off did yield some new insight after all.

Just sucks that I couldn't have figure that out before I pushed SEND

Therapy BITES!... do you think a thread with that title would get janked.

Oh boy, yeah I do believe it is DEFINITELY a "technique."

I have been known to just sort of say, ugh, or echh, when he does this. I think it is supposed to help us own our experiences and put an end to the dissociative cycle. When children have these abusive experiences, it overwhelms the psyche, and we dissociated because there was truly no other choice. Now, we get to integrate these experiences.

Are we having fun yet?

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T has certainly used the word "rape" many, many, many, many times in my sessions. He didn't use it until I gave him the "okay" - he kept saying "we need to name this" and I kept saying no, no, no. Finally, I told him, HE could say it. The first time he said it, I literally blacked out. Since then, he throws it in...but I know he is careful at times when I am especially vulnerable. I do think hearing the word so much has made it easier for me to kind of think it in my own head - and I think I even said it once. Part of the PTSD is total avoidance of the memory, the word, etc....I think hearing it is starting to calm that bit down a little tiny bit.

There are other words - abuse, molestation - they are hard to hear. HARD TO HEAR. But necessary, I think. Which is why therapy just sucks sometimes.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( chaotic ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) So, yeah, I do think it's a therapy technique. And I'm sorry that it's something you have to go through.

Well I think this technique stinks.

Me too. In fact, I think the whole damn package stinks right about now.

EM,
Let me ask you this..Do you think the use if this technique and your T getting you to own this experience has contributed at all to your recent stress level and need for more intensive treatment?

I'm just asking... I think overall I'm able to manage my life pretty well. But this week was rough. I'm just wondering about what my the risk to harm ratio is. My T has responded to me since I sent my "fix it" email.She must be pretty comfident I am able to cope with skin crawling and mind racing. I guess she must figure I still good at compartmentalizing stuff.

No, not at all. T is VERY CAREFUL about when he uses those words. He hasn't used them at all during this time, actually.

I do think that the technique has helped me with one trauma.

But during this time, it was more about other things, not about the really specific trauma stuff. And if it was, I am positive he would have chosen his words very carefully.

I wonder if you could talk to your T about the timing of her use of those words? I know it's really important for me that T is really careful about it. And if I ask him to stop, he will.

yeah two of my old t's used to deliberately use words they knew would trigger me. one even admitted to it. my current PsyD does not purpousley try to do that. She does not believe it to be benificial or healthy.

chaotic, I'm glad your T apologized to you. I wonder why she didn't do it in person but by email?

What did your T ask you? Did she ask your permission to use those words?

I don't think so. It sounds like you are trying to minimize your feelings about this. Why? It's OK to have those feelings.

That's so easy to do with the Internet. Maybe make yourself a rule to sit on emails to your T overnight so you can think in the AM if you really want to send it?

I have a stubborn memory too. Therapy has helped some with that. But it's frustrating when it doesn't help with it.

To me, and because I can relate to what you posted, I think one of the reasons we have memory gaps is because repressing the memory represses the feelings too. We can be really good at not feeling. I think feeling anger toward T is also protective, but since the feeling is being felt and not repressed, it's healthier. I think it's also a good thing because it says you feel comfortable enough with T to have feelings like those; there is trust there, so you don't have to repress the anger.

During the session when the words were used, they echoed in my head and sent waves though my body, but I don't know if this was visible on the outside. She didn't apologize because I didn't do my part and open my mouth.

No my T usually doesn't ask permission for things. I believe in her statement she was indicating that she felt like she had to (it was her job to) ask me to clarify and describe and challenge some of the things I said. One thing I think I like about my T is that she rarely apologizes for her actions. She will acknowledge that they may have cause harm or weren't received as intended... but she usually doesn't admit that she had made a mistake. In some sick way this is comforting... make me feel like she is confident in what she is doing and willing to accept the fall out.

During one of my early therapy session I was going nuts because therapy didn't seem to have defined rules of engagement. At one point I create a few, one of which was that she be honestly and direct with me. Maybe this week she was following that request.

I definitely need to figure out some way the delay the email send. Just writing a message doesn't cut it for me sometimes. The mental loop sometimes doesn't stop unless I hit the send button. I need built in mail server delay---can any computer programmers out there write me a applet for that?

Thanks to everyone who shared here. I am definitely not having fun. EM thanks for answering my question. I'm glad your T has been very careful in dealing with you on this issue. Yesterday I guess I was just questioning whether our T's really "get" how therapy affects us. They poke at you for an hour and then leave you to sit and deal with it alone. I guess I was still harboring the "F*&K Her" response yesterday.

I am MUCH better today--maybe sitting in it is also part of my job as the patient. I haven't heard back from my T since my "fix it" message (thanks for your tolerance for my typos and missing words). I'm OK with that mainly because while writing in this thread and hearing from you that feeling a little anger at this point is probably OK and expected. I also realized that what I expressed in my after session fallout didn't really need fixing. I don't really need a reassurance from my T at the moment.

I guess I am surviving...so my T must not have been too aggressive.

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I'm glad you're feeling a little better today. Sometimes just sitting with things helps me too - like right after session, I'll think, well, this SUCKS, I'll never feel better! But time does help sometimes.

As for your question about if T's get how our therapy affects us. T and I talked about that yesterday. After the "I want you to go to the hospital" appt on thursday, we scheduled an extra session for Friday. I was worried because I didn't know if it was going to help or make it worse. And T told me in session that HE wasn't sure when we made the appointment if it was a good idea...he was worried that we were going to rip a bunch of things open and I would be stuck to deal with it. I appreciated that he "got" it. And I appreciated even more that the session didn't work out that way.

(((((((((((((((((((((((( chaotic ))))))))))))))))))))) thinking of you today!