asking to see your file?

i'm not sure this is a good idea, so i hope people can pitch in with their thoughts/ideas/advice.

pdoc has referred me to a new T. i am nervous about going for all the usual (for me) reasons - e.g., trust, building a new relationship etc - but also now because i really want it to work, to not be a waste of time, and for me to get value from it. i don't want to just continue going because that's what i think i'm meant to do.

i stopped seeing my old T in december. i had been seeing him for two years. in those 2 years, i don't think we achieved much at all. or certainly, i had hoped for a lot more. he did help in very general ways - like, making me think there was another person helping me through this, being there to listen etc - but not in any way more meaningful than that. i had one very specific goal going in to therapy - to get help with perfectionism, procrastination, anxiety etc to do with uni work, and hopefully the outcome of that would have been for me to finish uni last year. but that didn't happen.

i think in seeing him, though, my self concept really changed. my self esteem just went to the floor, and kept digging. nothing i did was good enough (e.g., he'd suggest i should exercise, so i took up running. next session, oh - but you should do something that also gets you to socialise, so i joined a dance class with a few of my friends. but even that wasn't enough, because apparently i should have joined it by myself instead of 'hiding behind my friends' ). he kept saying i didn't have enough friends for someone my age, that the ones i had didn't count because they were formed during school (i've known them for more than 15 years now! surely that means something?), that the new uni friends weren't good enough for me because they were based on very intellectual shared interests, and that i should be making friends who had 'fun' together, not those who enjoyed dissecting a piece of philosophy.

all that came out of it was that i stopped seeing the friends i did have for a year or more, stopped exercising altogether etc. it was like his way of trying to get me to change was to criticise what i did have, and i dont think that works well for me at all. the uni problem didn't get solved either, because the last time i brought it up, he said that we had talked about that enough already and he wanted to talk about something else.

one thing i am aware of is that i might be seeing all of this very negatively now, given that our relationship ended on such bad terms. i was thinking that maybe if i was able to read some of the reports he had written to pdoc about me, i might also remember some of the good stuff. in a sense, i do want a bit of closure. but also - i think it would be good for me to also know what works/doesn't work, so that when i see this new T, i don't "put up" with some of the stuff that really is damaging to me?

like, i'm just very surprised that i did continue seeing this T for as long as i did, given that he said some things which were really hurtful (imo). i want to remember some of that stuff, so that when i go to this new T, i can also be sure to look out for it. i'm not prepared to waste another 2 years of my life doing therapy that is going nowhere.

i guess i want to see the reports just so i can remember some of what we covered and if i did make any progress. unlike a lot of people here, i never journaled after a session, so i have no notes of my own. i dont want to criticise that T (to pdoc, anyway - maybe to you guys it's ok ) and i hope he hasn't said anything that will hurt (e.g., deli is a nutcase with no hope), but even if he has, i've finally learnt to take his opinion with a grain of salt, and it would be a good opportunity to ask pdoc about it, to see if he agrees and if so, what to do about it.

so.... any thoughts? has anyone else asked to see their file before? quite apart from the question of whether it would be good for me, i'm also a bit scared of asking, because i don't want to put pdoc on the spot. my guess is that he would say yes, because he always tries to be open with me, but he might also want to ask old-T if he can release them? i don't know.

my T was writing things down in session once and I said geez you're writing a lot - how long does it take to write SHE IS CRAZY or are you writing it over and over lol she said she was writing things down i had said to discuss them (she writes at the time so we get the full hour - which is good - no finishing 15 mins early to write notes) she offered them to me so I could see - I declined.

I know without a shadow of a doubt that whatever she wrote I would have misinterpreted -

e.g., if she wrote something simple like "she said shes doing ok at work"
My thoughts would be........
what does that mean ? should I have said doing great -? does she think im not trying hard enough? whyd she write that down? what does it really mean? does she believe me?

So no I would not ask for the notes - start fresh - treat this like a fresh start and try to lead the therapy where you want it to go - jmo - do whats right for you - good luck

Del, I am amazed that your T made so many suggestions like that - where nothing was ever good enough. I think it is great that you've had your school friends for 15 years! That is really quite something to 'toot your own horn" about. I don't know about the records. I wanted to see mine, but like was said, I'd surely mis-interpret everything. I tried to get them from my old t but it turned into a mess. Blah. Though, now that I've been working with this dr for 18 months I think the old T was the one who was nuts - not me. So I don't care so much about the info in there. I don't know if any of that helps... but your self-esteem shouldn't (i wouldn't think) go down in T. @_@ Best to you, whatever you decide.
Kiya ((((((((del)))))))))

I'm with P7, I would twist and skew the stuff written into something negative to attack myself with.

I often think about my chart, what's in it, if she ever consults other T's about me. I must mention my concerns about what is in my chart frequently. My T will just make a pacifying statement like, "you know what in here is safe and private." then quickly moves me along to a new topic. Often I am thinking yeah right...

I guess the records curiousity is something that is just always going to exist. At this moment, I am content with not knowing what she is writing. HOWEVER, if I was being referred OR if for some reason my neurologist or GP wanted access to this information, I would NOT approve the sharing of this information without it also being shared with me. Her personal notes are just personal notes...but when they are shared with others their not just personal notes anymore...at least in my view of things. They are now being used to influence the opinion and care others are giving me.

If I decided eventually to see another T, I would want to start from scratch. Expecially if my interaction with my previous T was ineffective or problematic. I know others have situations where this type of professional sharing is appropriate and beneficial.

[off track side note] i will say that last week something really scary came up that i needed to talk about but absolutely did not want written down. I had plotted for 3 days how to get this need met. I figured if I said "Don't write this down" she'd say something like "I understand your needs, but this is the way it is ... or I can't make any promises. Because I see her at night, sometimes my file is sitting right outside her office door. I had contemplated grabbing it on the way in and stuffing it under the cushions (often I get there before she does) and tell her i was holding it ransome until she swore not to take notes. Unfortunately, she was right behind me and the file was on her desk. But fortunately, she told me "then this shall never be written" *whew*. [end off track side note]

thanks for your replies, guys . oh, and thank you for the hugs! i'm a hugs-junkie .

i would just want to look through the reports he sent to my pdoc. so not the raw bones in-session notes stuff, but the ones he turned into paragraphs and hopefully sanitised a bit. i guess one good thing with him being highly critical is that it identified places i could work on, things i could do differently. i wouldn't have had a problem with him making so many suggestions, if he at least acknowledged that i was following through on the suggestions he did make - a 'congrats on doing that, maybe next time you could try this also'.

i don't *think* i would misinterpret anything, but i guess a potential problem is that i could get really upset. like, if he wrote that i was a loner who had nothing going for her in life. but at the same time, i think i'm far away enough from him now not to take everything he said as gospel truth.

i guess i'm just looking for it to be something that triggered what got covered, what helped and what didn't help. even if everything there is negative, at least it will help me understand what i do and don't respond well to. like, i'll know now that:
- i still need help with procrastination/perfectionism
- i won't continue with a T who won't believe me when i disclose past abuse (old T said he believed i was being 'genuine', but that he couldn't commit to believing the things i said actually happened because he wasn't there)
- need someone who will reinforce that i do have positive things going for me in life

one thing i must say i loved about him is that he talked through my sui ideations with me a lot, whereas pdoc gets a bit frightened and withdraws a bit. old T was prepared to argue with me on that sort of stuff.

i don't know . i've had such a bad rap with therapists (my school counsellor ended on bad terms too) that i'm trying to prepare myself and be on guard. and i think these people really did want to help, so i just think that if i put a bit of preparation into it, i might feel a bit more sure footed of what i want/expect and that can help guide me. the last thing i want is to end up with this new T for 2 more years and have nothing change.

i am content for pdoc to make his own notes, and tell others he consults too - like, i know he and old T used to talk about me, and i was ok with that. also, new T and pdoc work as colleagues and have already been chatting but i'm ok with that. i trust pdoc. i'm not curious about what's in his notes, nor am i worried about what's in his referral letters (although - he did dictate the last one while i sat there and i did ask him to take a tiny bit out - about previous abuse. that's my story, no one else is allowed to say it on my behalf). i didn't even care when i knew old T was reporting to pdoc but thankfully old T will not be referring me to the new T, so there won't be any contamination there. i would have a major problem if there was.

i think the issue could be solved completely if i had taken notes after each session myself. that way i would remember what did go on. but since i dont have that, and pdoc does, i guess it would be helpful. but i dont know how pdoc would take it.

LOL! at your plot . pdoc actually takes it upon himself to never write down that sort of scary stuff either. i find it reassuring, and it's even better, because i would never have thought to ask for it.

I agree it is sounding like you want some closure. Did you burn your bridges with this T? Would it be possible to go back to him for one final closure session so you can ask him your questions before moving on? I'm just not sure you will find what you are looking for in the notes, whereas if you speak directly with your old T, you can ask exactly the questions you need to ask. For example, you can ask him to remind you of the "good stuff", that it's important to you as you move on. It also sounds to me like you don't really need to read the notes to know what works and doesn't work. You have expressed very clearly here what does not work for you about how your old T did therapy. I don't think reading the notes will help you not to "put up" with the same behaviors. You already know what behaviors you don't like from a T, and the ball is in your court not to put up with them in a new practitioner.

If you cannot go back to your old T for a closure session, you can ask your pdoc the same questions directly. You can ask him what positive things your old T said in his notes. If pdoc is reluctant to tell you, I wouldn't push it. He may be protecting you.

It sounds to me like you know what you need to look out for.

I wonder if it isn't more valuable to make your own judgment about whether you made progress or not? What is really important is your perception and belief, not his. Did you feel you made progress? If so, no one can take that from you, and it doesn't matter what your T wrote in his notes.

He may have written things that will indeed hurt. How will it help you to read that? You already know to take his opinion with a grain of salt, so why read what he wrote. You can ask pdoc your questions without having to read your old T's notes.

If you want to look at your old T's notes, you will probably have to put in a request at your old T's office. I don't think it is appropriate to ask your pdoc to share any but the notes he himself has written.

To avoid these issues regarding future T - pdoc information sharing, I suggest you do not give your pdoc permission to share his records and notes with your new T. Get a fresh start and eliminate the concern that one caregiver could bias another. I have seen three therapists (2 individually and one with my daughter) and a PNP (pdoc equivalent). None of them has seen notes from the other nor asked about it. They have been able to work with me and form their own opinions.

(((((((deli)))))))

personally, i wouldn't go near any of my previous t's notes. i doubt i would be comfortable with what i'd read and would get highly offended, and it would mess up how i felt about the t and our relationship.

when i was in junior high i auditioned for a play and was on the wait list. one of my friends saw what the drama teacher wrote down about me and i asked her to tell me. ack! i still remember it and i really didn't like it at the time. the guy was right but it did me no good knowing it then. he wrote that i was "too serious". see, i still remember but it doesn't upset me now...only around 30 years later. be careful what you ask for...

deli, i think it would be good for you to discuss with the new t what you find helpful and not so helpful in therapy. i talked with my new t about what i thought was helpful and what wasn't and it was a very productive conversation. btw, your old t sure didn't know how to help a perfectionist! we need tons of encouragement and praise for what we do right and little to no criticism.

why does your pdoc want you to see this t beyond him being new to the practice and seems cool? can you get the lowdown on the guy's orientation, specialities, et al? since you've not had good experiences in therapy it might be really helpful to do a lot of thinking, possibly with pdoc, and research as to what types of therapy you want and the characteristics of a t. it has really made a difference for me and i also had less than helpful therapy but nice ts in the past.

take care sweetie

i guess it would be possible, but it's an avenue i don't want to take. i am still partly angry with him, and i don't think i could sit there and be receptive to anything he had to say anymore.

i think what triggered all of this is that pdoc mentioned to me in our last session that ex-T had done really quality work with me on procrastination/perfectionism stuff. and 2 things came out of it:
1) that i remembered that this was one of the goals of me entering therapy to begin with
2) that i didn't think it was quality work at all.
pdoc and i talked a bit about it (because he had assumed everything was now ok in that regard) and we realised ex-T was setting the bar far too high for me to achieve, so i just gave up. e.g., where i typically spend (at least) 60hrs researching, reading and writing for an assignment, T was saying i should be able to accomplish all this in 10hrs. pdoc said that what i probably needed where a 100 intermediate goals, such as reducing my hours to maybe 58hrs, then 55 etc.

anyway, so i just thought reading Ts reports might help clarify some of the goals i wanted to work towards. and also give me insight into how best to pursue them.

i trust my pdoc immensely, so i don't mind him sharing his notes with the other people i consult. also, i think it is a requirement here for a T to write a report to the referring doctor every 6 sessions (if you are getting sessions subsidised by medicare). i really don't mind that information gets shared, and in a way, i think it is important for my docs to touch base because i do go into crisis every now and again.

thank you, reflection . apparently this T has been with pdoc's hospital for quite a while - he's now the director of clinical services there. so another high flyer (old T had 3 masters and a phd).

pdoc said this T is a lot more caring/empathetic and he thinks that would be good for me. also, my previous issues with psychologists have had to do with privacy - my school counsellor told my parents what was happening (even though i was above the age where doing this was permissible) and then old T sent a crisis team to my house, against my express wishes. pdoc said he knows new T very well, and that new T wouldn't break confidentiality in that way. he said that new T would call pdoc if there was a problem, and let pdoc take over from there. so that is reassuring.
as to specific orientation - i don't know. to get the medicare subsidy, he has to either do CBT or interpersonal therapy. all the Ts stretch this, of course, to suit whatever the client requires. but at a minimum, he would have to be schooled in CBT, i guess.
god. all of this is so scary for me. pdoc knows i'm reluctant, but i dont think he's knows just how big this is. i kind of dont want to tell him, either (minimise everything! ).

but new-T called me yesterday, and explained he has a one month waiting list at the moment. he offered to refer me to one of his colleagues, but since pdoc has been telling me about this T i thought it might be good to just wait it out. when i told him who my referring dr was, it kind of clicked who i was, and he said that pdoc and him have already had a few conversations about me. eep! but also, i think it's ok (maybe). he certainly seemed very sweet - he said if there were any emergencies between now and when he called me back, just to check in with him and maybe he could find a cancellation, or help me out on the phone. i thought that was lovely, because he doesn't even know me yet, but he's offering to help out already?

anyway. one more month of waiting. uni will almost be over by then.

((deli))

I have no interest in seeing my file. I know it is filled with my poetry, that I have copies of. I think that what I think of me is more important than what anyone else does.

Take care of yourself.

deli, this new t sounds quite good so far! i'm glad your pdoc knows him well. i wasn't sure if he was just some new hire trying to drum up clients. he seems quite compassionate from how he responded to you on the phone. i hope it all works out well for you with him. keep talking to pdoc about your apprehension about seeing him. he might be able to work with you on that to lessen the anxiety.

btw, i looked at your file and this is what it says:

deli is an intelligent, caring woman who has had some rough breaks in life but she's going to get thru this.

sounds like this new T may be a nice guy

SQUEEE!!! thank you, reflection. that really made me feel warm inside .

it *does* sound like new T is kind of ok, hey? the other thing i am kind of glad about is that he is as camp as fairy bread, and that is always fun. Austin-the-camp-70s-pornstar-T .

Gee am i the only one who is exremely curious ? I think in some ways that i would like to know what the T has said in her notes about me , but at the same time i think it could possibly hinder my progress as i would most likely analize everything i was doing and saying , even more than i do now lol. Maybe if i left T i would request these notes , but as long as i am still there ,no way i am asking . Like the old saying goes curiousity killed the cat ... well i think my curiousity would hurt me more than help me.

What the heck is fairy bread?

Is this sorta like how you Aussies call soccer "footy" or whatever? Do you have your tea with crumpets? And, if so, what the heck is a crumpet?


((((((deli))))))
You know I love ya!!

I would have bapped your old T on the nose!
You DON'T need to see your old demented T records. Why even bother? There isn't any closure to be found there, and you know what is and is not acceptable without them. You just go with your heart and you'll do fine.

i was wondering what "squee" means. i think deli has gone all aussie on us.
sometimes my south african friend writes his facebook status updates with words in afrikaans and i am left wondering what in the world he's saying!

squee? half a squeel?

Fairy bread - bread and butter (or margarine) with hundreds and thousands on it - (like small candy balls ) kids are supposed to love it - my sister and I made two plates of the **** for a kids party and it was the only thing left afterwards! lol

Glad you like the new T Deli