Race

Perpetuallysad

Thank you. People were always very respectful to the black executive at the corporate office too and would never say anything to his face. They did, however, give him the jobs no one else wanted to do.

I worked for the president, and there was an opening for an executive vice president of marketing. HR sent us the resume of a candidate that was so impressive, he already had all the paperwork set to hire the man. In his rush, he never bothered to notice the man was black.

The man showed up for the interview, and sat with me until my boss was out of his meeting. He was a very nice and cordial man. Out of the corner of my eye, I could see everyone peeking in on us and whispering to each other.

After the man entered my bosses office, one of the executives came running over to me to ask why the man was in my office. When I told him he was a candidate for the Sr. VP job, he laughed and said "Oh, he'll never get the job." When I told him my boss already had the paperwork set up, he said "We don't need any more of them here." In response to my look of shock, he said "You know what I mean" then imitated a monkey. Unfortunately, he was right - the man with the Ivy league education and qualifications up the ying-yang did not get the job. Why?

As for the children, I agree with you. My son was only harassed by adults when he was little - the kids didn't care. However, things changed around fifth grade - around the time hormones start to kick in with kids. His childhood friends began to bully and target him with racial slurs - to the point of threatening his life and sending their older siblings/cousins to chase him down for them. Talking to the children didn't help. Talking to the parents didn't help. Talking to the police didn't help. Talking with the teachers didn't help. Talking with the religious leaders didn't help.

As the song from South Pacific goes, you have to be carefully taught to hate. Maybe if more emphasis was placed on the subject during the prepubescent years, it wouldn't turn into such a vicious hatred by the time they become teenagers. However, teaching "tolerance" doesn't appear to be working. What does that even mean? I "tolerate" a cold, but I still hate being sick - and I would never give a cold a permanent job in my body.

I believe the problem with racism is it's ignored. People will point out "We're living in the year 2010, we have a half-black president, racism is a thing of the past". Obviously it's not, it's just a bit more of a sneaky subject these days.

There are a lot of things people can point to as the cause of racism, but it's an array of problems all rolled into one.

Firstly, there's hate groups of course. Blind hate, rolling an entire nationality into one and branding it the enemy. This is the most obvious of the problems, since it not only furthers the hate message to other adults, but it is almost guaranteed to pass onto their children. You see this in the kids with the confederate flags on their power wheels, or the children in the middle east chanting about how Israel is the great satan and will be wiped off the map. This obviously only furthers the cycle and teaches them to grow up and instill the same values in their children. This has another problem tagged onto it, the race that these hate groups are targetting can't help but assosciate that color/nationality of people with the hate groups. So a few ignorant racists that live in a state nowhere near me can influence the mindset of my neighbor. And the worst part of it all? They're protected by the constitution to march the streets spitting their hate in every and any direction.

Second, the closet racists. I'll give an example. I worked in real estate in NYC for two years, directly interacting with many different property owners. I would say 90% of them were Jewish, I don't know why, but they are. In a meeting, everyone would be completely civil, looking eachother in the eye, speaking respectfully without a hint of any racism. Once the client would leave and we were outside having a smoke, the jokes would start. These men that were totally respectful to the clients faces were now saying some of the most disturbing and racially insensitive things you would ever hear. This is basically forming... I guess you could call it a secret hate group. I think this is just as destructive as a group that will openly declare their hatred. This "secret" group is still going to try to look out for eachother and always have a hidden agenda.

Third, community. It's impossible to deny that a child growing up in a home in a nice neighborhood and safe streets is going to have an easier time than one growing up in the projects where the can't even walk around outside of their apartment without fear of being harmed. Typically the worse communities will also have worse schools. This isn't exactly racism, it's just the vicious cycle capitalism produces. A child growing up in a bad community will have low self worth, and project it onto themselves. Chances are they will turn to crime, get into trouble with the law, and the government will scratch their heads as to why test scores and graduation rates in these areas are so low. It's sickening they can't see the obvious.

Next is the media. Typically, white people make up the "mass" of media in this country. If you see a black guy, he's good at basketball, or he's a rapper. Honestly, how many black stars are there? Tyler Perry and Will Smith I guess, but most of the others are cast strictly for black roles, rather than lead roles. It's the same with every race, asians and indians are cast for smart roles, the accountant or the computer whiz. I know that may not sound like an insult, but it's still racism even if the signs aren't all there. And have you noticed how every criminal on these shows is a middle aged white guy? They're afraid to cast minorities in a criminal role because they will be accused of racism if they do.

Lastly, we have reverse racism. I know, it's a term that has been thrown around and never properly defined (at least to me). Example, have you ever watched a black comedian? I am yet to watch one that hasn't incorporated a joke about white people in their act. If the shoe was on the other foot, and you had a white comic making black jokes, he would likely be boo'd off the stage in seconds. It's perfectly ok to call a white guy any name in the book you can think of, but if that same guy dares to retaliate he's immediately a racist and his name and reputation is smeared. I've felt this plenty of times, walking home from the subway only to have a group of young black men follow me saying "whiteboy whiteboy where you goin whiteboy". It got to the point where I actually had to run because I felt I was in serious danger. Did I go home and cry about it? No. Was I genuinely offended? No. Did I feel threatened? Yes. It's just another way racism is perpetuated, because before that I could walk home at 4am no problems no worries. After that I choose my routes carefully just to avoid where the drug dealers and what not hang out at night. I'd be lying if I said I didn't get a little unnerved walking home alone past a group of "thuggish" looking black guys. It's just sad because one or two bad experiences has somewhat changed my outlook on a certain type of people, though it would be ignorant to lump an entire people together because of two bad things.

I think AAAAA's story about her niece speaks volumes about human nature. She saw people that looked like her and identified with it. We all just want a place where we belong, and one of the easiest ways to do that is surround ourselves with people who look and act like us. If you take a child and give him colored blocks with letters on them and different shapes, and tell him to organize it, I believe chances are that the child will organize them first by color, then by matching letters and finally by shape. We are social creatures, and perhaps over the countless years of evolution one of our simplest survival strategies has been "Stay to your own". When western cultures started to advance ahead of the rest, they kept this mentality, and the walls are really just now being torn down. I saw someone wrote that racism is taught, which I agree with, however to a degree I think it's human nature to want to surround ourselves with people that look and act like us.

Now, how do we fix it? I have no idea. I think it will take a lot of people swallowing their pride on both sides of the fence. This is not an exclusively white thing no matter how hard the media tries to portray it as such. Ignoring there's a problem on one side and only focusing on the other is just going to lead to more injustice. I have sat here at the end of that sentence for about 10 minutes trying to think of some way that we could "combat" racism. I really can't think of anything. We just need to continue raising children in schools that are culturally rich, teach them that even though we may look different on the outside, we're the same on the inside. It's not going to be something easy to be rid of. Time will tell I suppose...

THANK YOU. The Southern Poverty Law Center keeps a watch on the hate groups nationwide. There are 932 active hate groups in the U.S., and who knows how many active chapters they have within each group.

Like pedophiles, they lure vulnerable children - usually teenage outcasts - to join them. They brainwash their victims to believe all their problems are due to people of color. Once they've worked them up into a frenzy, they offer them friendship and a chance to be a "warrior." WAY too many young punks have "practiced" on me and my family.

Why do we have to wait until a crime has been committed before people show outrage? If these young punks who have attacked me in the past decide to take it a step further, how many people will laugh at our misfortune? Am I just an isolated incident? Should my extended family sit back and do nothing?

IMO, the "reverse racism" is bad, but it doesn't hold a candle to what people of color have had to endure for centuries in this country. There is no history of generational systemic abuse, discrimination and oppression against white people as a whole in the United States. It doesn't carry the same triggers and memory of trauma,

I'm aware it's not only white people who hate black people. My son had a Jordanian friend when he was young. This kid practically lived at our house, and he REALLY liked my husband. One day he said to me "I HATE Mexicans!" I asked him which one. He responded "ALL of them!" I looked at him with surprise and said "You know EVERY Mexican in this country and in Mexico?" I then told him my husband is Mexican - he didn't know what to say.

Unfortunately, after 911 people blamed this kid - even their teachers. They were in high school by this time. Mohammad was waiting at the stop light to turn into the school parking lot. A gang of flag-wavers came over to him, pulled him out of his car and beat him senseless. He recovered from his injuries, but committed suicide a few months later on Christmas Day. He was born and raised here and had NOTHING to do with 911. No one hear mourned for him. He was such a good kid.

I do have to disagree here. My Grandfather told me stories that his grandfather told him about the things he had to put up with when he immigrated here from Ireland. Back in those days, they called the Irish "The black of Europe" and "Blacks turned inside out". The Irish were refused of nearly all work, except for the most dangerous work. Irish workers were sent to do work that was deemed to dangerous for a slave to do because if the slave died it would cost his owner money. If the Irishman died it was for the good of the country. The Irish had many struggles in coming to this land, and were never though of as "white" until they formed so many unions, took so many terrible jobs that they were finally able to monopolize them, and fought their way to equality and eventually blended in. I suppose once the accents disappeared over a generation or two it was almost impossible to spot.

It comes at a cost though. The Irish have jumped into the melting pot and forgot their heritage. We were the opressed people of europe. I once heard a supposed joke that black slaves used to tell. They would say "My master is terrible, he treats me like the common Irish man." We (American Irish) have forgotten all of the injustice we suffered from the UK and countless other nations, all of our culture that was destroyed in the name of Christianity. We've lost it all except for shamrock tattoo's and St. Patricks day. Most people don't even know what St. Patrick did. He introduced Christianity to Ireland, basically embracing the systemic destruction of the celtic/druidic culture. We're so out of touch with our culture it's saddening. But I will always say, I'm not white, I'm Irish.

A very interesting subject and perspectives. As a young boy growing up in a big city in the north east USA I know about racism. I went to school in the 60's. I was a half American Indian half white who had the unfortunate problem of the hue of his skin being dark and lived in an all white neighborhood. I used to take bleach and try to lighten my skin up. I was called the N word and sp*c and half N for most of my adolescent life.
I got chased home from school by whites and punched around in school by black and spanish kids. I couldn't walk 2 blocks past my house without a confrontation by another group. In my neighborhood, blacks lived across the Avenue and whites lived by the river. Everyone stayed in their own "hood or got beat up. I have an intergrated family where my nieces have married spanish or black men and they have children. My SIL is married (25 years) to a black man. I have been married to a white as snow woman for 37 years. I lived racism and today is nothing compared to then. Racism today is nothing but political correctness run amok. People like to be with their own kind, blacks will gravitate to blacks, whites to whites and hispanics to hispanics if left alone and not forced to be together. Why is there a NAACP and not a NAAWP Why is there Cinco d Mayo and not White May or why Black history month and not White history month? Why do we celebrate Kwaanza and notan Indian celebration ritual, why is there ISLAM or black Pride and not the KKK? Lots of people are too sensitive and the government is doing all it can to keep it that way by enacting hate laws that go only one way .....white on black. Now, whitey is getting pissed off and forming their own protection and scaring the heck out of a lot of minorities and their sympathizers. Too bad, you reap what you sow.
I don't feel sorry for anyone and if they are idiots, I don't care what color they are they are still idiots. Racism is only in the racists person mind and usually the one that shouts it the loudest is the perpetrator.

It is time to move on.......life is too short, if you hate me for the color of my skin or hate anyone for outward looks, I don't want to be counted among you. I accept people for who they are MLK said judge me on the content of my character, not on the color of my skin. When I look to the leaders of this country I find them wanting.

Have a great life............

A very interesting subject and perspectives. As a young boy growing up in a big city in the north east USA I know about racism. I went to school in the 60's. I was a half American Indian half white who had the unfortunate problem of the hue of his skin being dark and lived in an all white neighborhood. I used to take bleach and try to lighten my skin up. I was called the N word and sp*c and half N for most of my adolescent life.
I got chased home from school by whites and punched around in school by black and spanish kids. I couldn't walk 2 blocks past my house without a confrontation by another group. In my neighborhood, blacks lived across the Avenue and whites lived by the river.

(((50'SGUY))) - I feel so sad when I read your post. It must have been so horrible, feeling like you didn't fit in anywhere. I feel so bad that you felt you had to lighten your skin. I think you make an important point, that it's not just the typical white man, who's prejudice - there's also prejudice within ethic groups verses other ethnic groups. There's even prejudice within the black community - if you're too dark or too light. I don't like judge by the color of your skin, religion or sexual orientation - only by character alone. I don't know what's the answer. Thank you for your post.

((A long ways))

I'm aware of your history, but it's not the same and it's not connected to the racial problems we face today in the U.S. Irish people (and other poor/immigrant white people) had the opportunity to fit into mainstream if they worked hard and earned their salt. No matter how hard a black person works, no matter how many accomplishments are made - he will always be black.

There is no nationwide systematic abuse of Irish people in this country. The overhead speaker at Walmart did not say "All Irish people leave the store NOW." That is all in the past. The stories may be painful, but the Irish community does not face the same threat today as your ancestors did. Our Vice President is Irish - we don't see Irish slurs and bonafide death threats thrown at him and his family - young and old alike. There are no hate groups currently dedicated to destroying all Irish people in this country.

Kathy, I get where you are coming from, but you opened a discussion about race and racism and Irish were severely discriminated against. Its seems like the only discussion you want is specifically about black people being discriminated against or treated badly. Its not reality. Many people, for many different reasons are subject to racism and bigotry. You cannot define the situation and force everyone to only look at the black issue, without accepting that others are in similar situations.

Yes I agree bigotry and racism comes in many forms.

After reading Kathy.M. response to 50guy,I pulled myself from further involvement than that which exists at pen here,but i have alot of experiences regarding race and almost allowed myself to partake in sharing.I see,however that it is pointless ,as even those who appear to be very widely informed,and well spoken,have failed to grasp that they too have succumbed to the segregation they so rightfully abhor specifically kathy.I am deeply saddened by any and all division among peoples and personally view us as Gods children.Don't be mistaken i lived each side of the fence post here and can feel the pain on all sides,but there are as many barriers as opinions which dam up civilizations forward progression in the resolution to such an evil smear on the face of humanity .Satan is alive and well and those who fall into his trap wear welding goggles what else can i add?To state anything more than: my spirit prays for healing on all sides, is all I can offer to this as I am not particularily informed or stable for that matter,and feel powerless to alter the disease....Treesa

Treesa - I did not respond to 50guy's post. I responded to A Long Ways' post - but thanks anyway.

I would prefer to hear from people who have ideas on how to resolve these issues rather than have to defend and expose my personal trauma against people who haven't walked in my shoes.

Does anyone else have any ideas in response to my original post?

Sometimes people see racism in something that wasn't at all racist. Racism comes in all colors and creeds.
If we are going to heal the wound of racism, we have to make it that everyone is treated with respect and not judged because of the color of their skin or their religion.

I find whites are being openly hated and the people doing it are not being punished, fired from their jobs or being turned into a criminal like when a white person expresses any shadow of a criticism towards anyone of another race, especially blacks.
It's especially frustrating when whites are accused of such things when racism had nothing to do with their actions such as being accused of crossing the street when a black man is walking towards you in the opposite direction. You dare cross the street than it's automatically assumed you're being racist. Not that you just wanted to cross the street because you wanted to cross the street as you would have if it had been a white man or woman walking towards you.
Also, I don't like being accused of slavery. It's assumed because I'm a white American, my ancestors had slaves. Which is not true as it isn't for millions of other whites in America who's families came only a few generations ago. A lot of Irish Americans in this country. I don't think any of them were here for the slavery period.

My point is-when someone keeps accusing someone of being racist at any thing they do and there was nothing racist about their actions but then you see these same people talking trash about whites very openly and being applauded for it...that's not going to heal any wounds. If anything, it's only going to make them bigger and sorer.

I'm not saying some whites aren't racist...I know they are.
And I also know all blacks aren't racist towards whites either.

It's a sticky subject. But it does work both ways. I think as long as human beings will be human beings...they will always find a reason to hate on another human being, even if it's just because they're wearing something that doesn't match.
It's just the way humans are.
I wish we could heal the wounds too but sometimes I'm afraid I'm going to become racist because I don't like being blamed for things I had no part of and being made to feel paranoid because I want to cross the street but omg, there's a black guy walking towards me and he's going to think...
I guess blacks have gone through this for many decades so I shouldn't complain.

Thank you Flaming, your post made my thoughts collect into a coherent form so that I can say what it is that has been needling me in the back of my mind. It is very frustrating when you cannot verbalize what you’re feeling.

There is no question in my mind racism exists. But someone that sees it EVERYWHERE isn’t taken seriously. They are dismissed as a chronic complainer. Like the little boy that calls wolf too many times. If and when this person actually experiences racism, how much credibility do they have?

We have been discussing white vs. black racism as the most predominant. There is another form, one that I personally find more disturbing. My husband is “mixed race” (a term I detest but that’s a discussion for another day). He is Native American and Black (if you take exception to the term, take it up with him).

We had a good friend named Mark. Mark raised in a predominately “white” neighborhood, he was extremely well educated, intelligent, kind, quiet, well-mannered and very funny. I have to say he was one of the best human beings I’ve had the fortune to meet. Mark would come to our home on a regular basis. He was single so he spent his holidays with us as well. He was in the military stationed on the same over-seas base as we were. He would play with our son for hours.

One day we were near his barracks and decided to stop and see if he wanted to join us for dinner (phones were not common in the barracks at that time). His roommate answered the door. His roommate was also African-American and this man was one of the rudest people I’ve ever met. He left the door ajar and went to “announce” our arrival he said absolutely horrible things about us (whom he’d never met) and to Mark. It seems that he felt Mark was “too white” (wtf that means). Mark did not invite us in, as you can imagine, but he did join us for dinner. He never reacted to this other man’s verbal assault. We heard from another mutual friend that Mark got a great deal of bullying, not only from his roommate, but that whole social group.

Why did these men feel that “centuries of oppression” gave them the right to harass another individual just because he didn’t share their feelings? They felt that Mark’s success in the military was because he “acted” white. WHAT an insult! This man was extremely knowledgeable in his field; his promotions were most definitely based upon his knowledge and work ethic. He took a great deal of pride in his job. His father was a VERY high ranking individual in the same branch. Of course Mark was too modest to share that tid bit.

Thank you FlamingJune

How would you explain this clip?

I understand what you're saying, but as Al Sharpton said after the Michael Richards fiasco, "You can't spit out what you haven't eaten" - meaning when your stomach has had all it can take, your heart and mouth can't throw out feelings that aren't there...when you've had all you can take, the truth comes out.

It's not possible to tell good from bad merely by appearance, sweet smiles and manners. It's difficult to believe a promise of friendship, support, opportunity, or an apology if you can't tell good from bad. For this reason, people need to be tested before they can be trusted.

It really hurts to get into an argument with a friend who promises they are not racist, only to have vulgar hatred and vile racial slurs thrown in my face. It really hurts to be given an excuse on why you cannot participate - only to overhear laughter, being called vicious names, and cries of victory for destroying your hopes and dreams....based solely on your skin color (in my case being a "N-lover." and "race-traitor"). it really hurts to hear them laugh at what they would like to do to you - to "teach you a lesson" - if they had the chance to spend some "quality alone time." It really hurts to witness your husband and your child's life being threatened. It really hurts when you take it to the authorities and people who are supposed to be your "allies" tell you it's YOUR fault and no one cares.....time after time, day after day, year after year, decade after decade, generation after generation.

http://www.housingwatch.com/2010/03/17/chicago-mans-racist-yard-art-hurts-neighborhood-home-sales/?icid=main|htmlws-main-n|dl5|link5|http%3A%2F%2Fwww.housingwatch.com%2F2010%2F03%2F17%2Fchicago-mans-racist-yard-art-hurts-neighborhood-home-sales%2F

This article belongs here instead of Current Events Forum because it explains what is happening in my neck of the woods. It's the reason for the "white flight" that happened here in the 60s and why so many neighborhoods were destroyed. It's the reason I'm at my wits end and not going to take it anymore.

I can't and WON'T sit through another assassination. Does ANYONE have any ideas on how to help bigots rid themselves of such vicious hatred?

A lot of intellent exchanges here and that is good.

Racism will always be with us, until we get rid of the idea of Race itself. Until people are purely seen only as they are as individuals and not part of this "group" or that "group" and not "black", "White" Hispanic" etc...

On the genetic yardstick, the physical characteristics that identify "Race" are in fact infintesimal. We all carry 99.5% of the exact same DNA sequences.

Truth is "Race" is purely a fictional thing. Race has no scientific validity and is not recognized by any hard science.

That being said we as a society are lonnngggg ways from this, as "we" are still driven by our emotions, rather than rational, objective thought. I am not sure if we as a species will survive that long.

THANK YOU Tim. I was about to throw in the towel. I'll give it another day.

Take a look at this short clip of those two men harassing an old man with Parkinson's disease.

How should their father/loved one feel and respond?

Are you asking for more laws or more individual changes?

Thank you everyone for your input. Unfortunately, this discussion has been taken up before without any clear cut answers and again, no clear cut answers. This kind of discussion is also against our community guidelines. For that reason, I will close it at this time.

Be well everyone!

_sabby_