[texascoco]

I have noticed that some of my fears that usually only apply to guys I am attracted to, has, recently, also been applying to my brother. (I am not attracted to my brother at all, to be clear.)

Usually, I feel affectionately towards the guys I'm attracted to and have had sex with, and I care about them, even though it is a casual relationship. They are usually pretty valuable to me because when I am upset or lonely, it is usually most effective for me to text friendly and jokey conversation to guys who I am attracted to. (In person would be better, but usually I don't have guys like that I can go to, usually they are far away or unable or too busy to hang out.) However, I always feel like these guys don't care about me, are kind of using me, and would be willing to hurt me at any second, and to leave me and not even be friends with me anymore, ever. I feel like they do not value me or like me that much and I feel expendable and kind of worthless to them, and it feels kind of ******, and scary. Usually I feel like it turns out to be true because they do leave me and don't want to talk to me anymore ever, but I feel those ways right from the very beginning, even when they are being nice to me.

None of the guys I'm attracted to who I would go to to text and cheer me up will talk to me anymore, and I've found that texting my brother is rather effective. He and I had had a pretty crappy relationship, and it didn't start significantly improving until the past several months, though there is still a bit of a strain and awkwardness. I was home from college for spring break and so was he and when I was at school I missed him, and I hardly miss anybody. I admire him a lot and think very well of him. And when I left home to go back to school, I sat on the bus and got a feeling similar to how I feel about guys who I'm attracted to - that my brother doesn't care about me, I am worthless to him, I care about him more than he cares about me - just like I always do with guys I'm attracted to - and he won't be here for me and he won't want to be friends with me because I am not worth that to him, and that is kind of similar to the fear I have of being left. He and I won't ever be in an actual interpersonal relationship, a friendship, we will never be in a real relationship (just like I'm not in a real relationship with any of these guys, they are basically acquaintances I have sex with) - my brother and I will never be close or real friends because he will never value me or like me enough to want to be friends with me. Right now it feels like he is an acquaintance and he only talks to me out of convenience and out of obligation as a brother. That is the feeling I get and my fears and my perceptions, even though I know they might be inaccurate.

I just thought it was interesting that that feeling extended beyond guys I'm attracted to, to another male who I'm not attracted to. I'm curious about what is going on there. Was wondering if anyone has felt the same way.

[Leed]

Actually, it sounds about normal for your age group. Most guys are just out to have fun (fun, meaning chalking up as many "conquests" as they can get). They aren't into wanting to have relationships - they really aren't mature enough. I'm sure you know that women mature earlier than men do, so we're much more eager to have a relationship that lasts than men are.

This has nothing to do with you, so don't take it personally. It's just the nature of the 'beast.' And I'm sure there are some guys that are more mature than others but I guess you just haven't found him yet. LOL

I wish you the very best. Take care and God bless. Hugs, Lee

[texascoco]

Originally Posted by Leed

Actually, it sounds about normal for your age group. Most guys are just out to have fun (fun, meaning chalking up as many "conquests" as they can get). They aren't into wanting to have relationships - they really aren't mature enough. I'm sure you know that women mature earlier than men do, so we're much more eager to have a relationship that lasts than men are.

This has nothing to do with you, so don't take it personally. It's just the nature of the 'beast.' And I'm sure there are some guys that are more mature than others but I guess you just haven't found him yet. LOL

I wish you the very best. Take care and God bless. Hugs, Lee

Yeah, I guess what I'm most curious about is with how I have the same kind of feelings of unease and feeling worthless and scared towards not just guys I'm attracted to, but towards me brother, too.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by texascoco

They are usually pretty valuable to me because when I am upset or lonely, it is usually most effective for me to text friendly and jokey conversation to guys who I am attracted to. (In person would be better, but usually I don't have guys like that I can go to, usually they are far away or unable or too busy to hang out.) However, I always feel like these guys don't care about me, are kind of using me

I do not know whether they are using you, but you are using them - see the bold part.

[texascoco]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I do not know whether they are using you, but you are using them - see the bold part.

Yes, I am using them. But everybody uses everybody else. People usually spend time and effort on other people who they get something out of. The friends that a person chooses are usually people who bring something positive to that person's life - fun, laughs, human connection, closeness, support, comfort, etc, because why bother otherwise?, and that is how it is naturally and how it should be. Why would you surround yourself with people who don't have any things about them to affect you positively at all, unless due to obligation? So these guys are valuable to me and sure, we can say that I'm using them, just the same way everybody uses everybody else. But I care a lot about these guys - I feel very warmly towards them, I feel tremendously happy when I see that they are happy, I would like to be there for them when I can, if they let me, I want to do things that make them laugh or feel cared about, and on occasion I do, which is risky for me, because me doing nice things might creep them out and usually they don't appreciate it, and when I even imagine them sad it makes me tear up. They, on the other hand, are prone to ignoring me, snapping at me, standing me up, glaring at me, lying to me, and just generally not valuing me - I can feel that I am not important to them and I can feel that they would hurt me with a pretty clean conscious, even when it could be easily avoided.

They are not all bad and there is definitely good to them and to how they treat me sometimes, but oftentimes not, but in the end, they're going to hurt me, or they already have, and they're okay with that, and they're going to take what they can from me, without ever having cared about me, and without ever having cared about if I am happy or sad, and without being sad or even aware that I'm not in their lives anymore, while I think about them at least briefly almost everyday. And I realize that I am at fault, for letting them do that to me. But my point is, the difference between me and them and the concepts which each of us "uses" each other is pretty significant.

[hamster-bamster]

I see your point.

Then, you need other friends. It is not normal or expected to be treated like that.

I think you should also try non-sexual friendships, even in the presence of some attraction.

Not that my record is any indication of a general trend or pattern, but two of my very very good male friends with whom I did not act on some mutual attraction (and, when you are so young and spend time together, attraction is bound to happen) remain my very good friends now 2+ decades later - via email/phone since this is long distance, one in Germany and the other in Florida, but still. And, the sexual boyfriends/first husband - two not in contact with me and one dead so no info available.

So in my tiny dataset, not acting on attractions translated into decades of friendship and acting on attractions did not.

FWIW

You really sound like a nice caring warm girl, so there is no reason for you to be treated the way you are. You need to form more connections and hopefully they will be better for you.

[texascoco]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

I see your point.

Then, you need other friends. It is not normal or expected to be treated like that.

I think you should also try non-sexual friendships, even in the presence of some attraction.

Not that my record is any indication of a general trend or pattern, but two of my very very good male friends with whom I did not act on some mutual attraction (and, when you are so young and spend time together, attraction is bound to happen) remain my very good friends now 2+ decades later - via email/phone since this is long distance, one in Germany and the other in Florida, but still. And, the sexual boyfriends/first husband - two not in contact with me and one dead so no info available.

So in my tiny dataset, not acting on attractions translated into decades of friendship and acting on attractions did not.

FWIW

You really sound like a nice caring warm girl, so there is no reason for you to be treated the way you are. You need to form more connections and hopefully they will be better for you.

Thank you, that's very kind of you I'm sorry about your boyfriends/husband I think that's really great you're still friends with two of your guy friends. I always hear people say that it is impossible for guys and girls to be just friends and I hate that, and how if a guy or girl is in a relationship they basically shouldn't have anything to do with anyone of the opposite sex. I hate that. I think it's ridiculous. It cuts out half the population of potential connections. It relieves me when I hear instances that prove those people wrong.

[eskielover]

I have had many wonderful guys as good friends in my 60 years of living. However I do not allow the friendship to ever go sexual as I do not believe in sex out of marriage. If the men are willing to be friends on my terms....great....& most do. You don't have to feel forced into having sexual relations with guys just to keep them as friends & those who only want you for sex.....good riddance anyway.

I was an aerospace firmware engineer & worked with only guys while I was married & so was my husband.....my life was surrounded basically by only men & I held onto my moral values tightly & only one guy attempted to cross my boundaries but I kept the relationship in strictly my professional boundaries.

If you want others to respect & care for you, you have to respect & care for yourself first & that doesn't mean using guys for sex even though in the past we have thought that's what guys mostly tried to do with women.....to be honest....guys worth having as friends & eventually as a husband aren't that way & they hold onto the same good moral values & have learned how to really care about women not just for sex.

Yes, I am using them. But everybody uses everybody else.

Not true. I don't use people...I have my own life & my friends have theirs & our lives come together through mutual interests in the things we value in our lives....there is no using of anyone. It's truly caring relationships that exist without any USE involved. We do things for each other out of caring not out of using the other person....there is a huge difference between the 2 attitudes.