I've been told pretty much my whole adult life that I'm a very intimidating person even when I don't mean to be. I used to be a really angry person and couldn't really control that anger. Now I can for the most part. But apparently I'm still intimidating…

I'm not sure how not to be…it's sort of my personality. I think it's more important that I'm not threatening people and getting in very heated disagreements. I was going to refer to them as fights, but physical violence hasn't happened other than throwing stuff.

Also, it's pretty much only men who find me intimidating. So, I don't know if it's my looks—sort of punk-ish (not sure how to describe my style), I have bright red hair fringed with black and if I have time, I prefer to have thick black eyeliner. Or if it's my personality—because I'm more masculine/aggressive by nature. I've tried to make myself more effeminate (mainly in the way I look because that's easier to change), but at some point, I'm not myself anymore.

So, what makes guys intimidated by girls? And what can I do to be less intimidating to guys aren't terrified. I'm nice, not threatening, none of that stuff anymore.

[healingme4me]

Intelligence, can be intimidating. Being able, to hold a conversation, can be intimating.
Body language, as well. Can always, think about how you posture yourself, then 'search' it online.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

I don't want to play "dumb" and "weak" though…is there a way to be less intimidating if you are really intelligent and have a more "tough" personality. I will look into body language though…

I just wish I could be myself and it not terrify all guys (at least around my age).

[healingme4me]

You're right, about not wanting to dumb yourself down. It would probably be hard, anyways.

Why change who you are, to please others or what you imagine others to desire? That's not the answer, to your current frustrations.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

[ReallySheRanAway]

Hi!

You sound like me, my style is different, but the basic intimidating to men is definitely there. I used to throw stuff too. Now when i think about it I see my sweet little 7 yr old begin me not to throw a vase she loved…I did, it smashed.

To survive we learned to be strong. Most women learn to be demure. Our job is to learn to be more demure. (Quit throwing up!) It is not easy and you will need the understanding of the man in your life.

I have been in my current relationship 6 years, married for 2.5. My husband knows all the details of my life. We live apart most of the time. We are faithful and supporting of each other.

He helps me, and yes he gets angry, but I have encouraged him to teach me. So, this is what I have learned about squashing the intimidation…

Ask - Don't tell
Say Thank You - A lot and do it sweetly (stop gagging)
Be gentle - kiss is head when you pass him sitting in a chair, let him open the car door, walk slower when you are with him, lay his bathrobe out when he is in the shower….
Speaking to Others - let them talk, do not correct their statements, walk up to other casually - not with authority
Relax Your Body when you approach work mates, friends, neighbors and laborers.

Good luck! I am old and still working on this.

[unaluna]

It doesnt have to be just your physical presence. Anyway i have the same problem, but with both men and women. Ive heard, if men feel like you dont NEED them, they wont stick around. Which sounds like a power play to me. Cant i just WANT them? Isnt that better? Apparently not!

[always_pushing]

HI. I didn't read all of your post yet, short on time.. BUT i did see your image and I found it interesting that even the image you picked is of an intimidating nature... any thoughts on that?

Originally Posted by healingme4me

You're right, about not wanting to dumb yourself down. It would probably be hard, anyways.

Why change who you are, to please others or what you imagine others to desire? That's not the answer, to your current frustrations.

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

They don't desire me the way I am. I know I'm doing something wrong—whether it's body language, the way I look, or my personality.

Originally Posted by ReallySheRanAway

Hi!

You sound like me, my style is different, but the basic intimidating to men is definitely there. I used to throw stuff too. Now when i think about it I see my sweet little 7 yr old begin me not to throw a vase she loved…I did, it smashed.

To survive we learned to be strong. Most women learn to be demure. Our job is to learn to be more demure. (Quit throwing up!) It is not easy and you will need the understanding of the man in your life.

I have been in my current relationship 6 years, married for 2.5. My husband knows all the details of my life. We live apart most of the time. We are faithful and supporting of each other.

He helps me, and yes he gets angry, but I have encouraged him to teach me. So, this is what I have learned about squashing the intimidation…

Ask - Don't tell
Say Thank You - A lot and do it sweetly (stop gagging)
Be gentle - kiss is head when you pass him sitting in a chair, let him open the car door, walk slower when you are with him, lay his bathrobe out when he is in the shower….
Speaking to Others - let them talk, do not correct their statements, walk up to other casually - not with authority
Relax Your Body when you approach work mates, friends, neighbors and laborers.

Good luck! I am old and still working on this.

I appreciate your advice, but I need to know how to attract a guy first. I'm apparently too intimidating or awful in some other way to make it to a second date, if I can even make it to a first date (that's rare).

Originally Posted by hankster

It doesnt have to be just your physical presence. Anyway i have the same problem, but with both men and women. Ive heard, if men feel like you dont NEED them, they wont stick around. Which sounds like a power play to me. Cant i just WANT them? Isnt that better? Apparently not!

I thought I was acting like I did need them to some extent…for example I mention needing someone to help carry stuff because I can't carry things like I used to be able to because of my joints.

I'd rather just "want" them, but I'll "need" them if that's what they want.

Originally Posted by always_pushing

HI. I didn't read all of your post yet, short on time.. BUT i did see your image and I found it interesting that even the image you picked is of an intimidating nature... any thoughts on that?

I changed my avatar…hopefully it's better.

[always_pushing]

I would say that's a god starting place

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

I've been told pretty much my whole adult life that I'm a very intimidating person even when I don't mean to be. I used to be a really angry person and couldn't really control that anger. Now I can for the most part. But apparently I'm still intimidating…

I'm not sure how not to be…it's sort of my personality. I think it's more important that I'm not threatening people and getting in very heated disagreements. I was going to refer to them as fights, but physical violence hasn't happened other than throwing stuff.

Also, it's pretty much only men who find me intimidating. So, I don't know if it's my looks—sort of punk-ish (not sure how to describe my style), I have bright red hair fringed with black and if I have time, I prefer to have thick black eyeliner. Or if it's my personality—because I'm more masculine/aggressive by nature. I've tried to make myself more effeminate (mainly in the way I look because that's easier to change), but at some point, I'm not myself anymore.

So, what makes guys intimidated by girls? And what can I do to be less intimidating to guys aren't terrified. I'm nice, not threatening, none of that stuff anymore.

No one can simply state what is intimidating to guys because of course, we are all different so I will say this from a personal viewpoint of myself as a guy.

Outgoing, assertive and outspoken women tend to be intimidating but then tht's not just women, I'm intimidated by people in general that are those things because, I am, pretty introverted IRL myself. I go with the flow, I conform and give in in large groups so, when soemone is overbearing and those things I've mentioned, I sort of back up into the shadows.

Intelligence does not intimidate me... but how they portray their intelligence can be. If they are busy speaking out, showing off their smarts, their ability to keep up with the males or other intelligent females, it can be intimidating because although I feel like I am an intelligent guy, when feaced with "competition" so to speak I will usually concede that I know nothing first before competing.

I'll post more if I find more ideas.

[Webgoji]

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

So, what makes guys intimidated by girls? And what can I do to be less intimidating to guys aren't terrified. I'm nice, not threatening, none of that stuff anymore.

From a man's perspective, I can say the only thing that ever intimidated me about a woman was when she was really pretty. I would feel like I wasn't good enough to talk to her.

But other than that, if a man feels intimidated by an intelligent woman that can carry on a good conversation and is his emotional equal ...

Then he isn't a man at all, but a child that's better left on the playground anyway.

Originally Posted by Webgoji

Then he isn't a man at all, but a child that's better left on the playground anyway.

That's not entirely true. Some people are intimidated by different things and to say that a man "isn't a man at all" because he might be intimidated by any single thing, regardless of if it's intelligence or anything is just judgemental.

Waht if one person said to you that you're not a man at all if you feel unworthy of a woman that is highly attractive? That would be equally judgemental.

Men are intimidated by different things…ok, that makes plenty of sense. What isn't making sense to me is that apparently all men near my age are intimidated by me or they don't like me for whatever reason. I don't think its my looks—I may not have the body of a supermodel but my face and hair are pretty. So theoretically I should be pretty enough to be attractive but not attractive enough to be intimidating. Especially if I'm making the first moves (since they won't when given the chance).

And yes, I'm intelligent, but I'm not demeaning about it. In fact, I try to make people feel more at ease if I sense they feel inferior about not knowing XYZ when I do. Or I'll try to explain it to them in terms more suited to their set of knowledge/education etc. And there's plenty of stuff that I don't know myself and I'll admit that on the spot, so I really can't see how my intelligence is intimidating.

I am more competitive than probably the average girl, but I don't really want to lose that. It's sort of important if I want to make money in music and/or writing someday.

You can't tell me that the majority of guys in their 20's and 30's want their women to be completely submissive little mice? Ok, that was an exaggeration, but you can get what I'm saying.

This is probably made even more complicated by the fact that I consider myself more "bigender" than "female". It's the alpha male part of me that's probably terrifying.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

Men are intimidated by different things…ok, that makes plenty of sense. What isn't making sense to me is that apparently all men near my age are intimidated by me or they don't like me for whatever reason. I don't think its my looks—I may not have the body of a supermodel but my face and hair are pretty. So theoretically I should be pretty enough to be attractive but not attractive enough to be intimidating. Especially if I'm making the first moves (since they won't when given the chance).

This may be part of it. Some men, not me... may be intimidated by women that do make the first move. I personally am introverted so it's not necessarily something I dislike. Gets me into trouble sometimes but definitely is not an intimidation.

And yes, I'm intelligent, but I'm not demeaning about it. In fact, I try to make people feel more at ease if I sense they feel inferior about not knowing XYZ when I do. Or I'll try to explain it to them in terms more suited to their set of knowledge/education etc. And there's plenty of stuff that I don't know myself and I'll admit that on the spot, so I really can't see how my intelligence is intimidating.

I dunno, it's hard to say without seeing how you interact. The truth is even by your own standards you may not see how you are perceived. Its hard to say exactly if this is it but it sounds like probably not.

I am more competitive than probably the average girl, but I don't really want to lose that. It's sort of important if I want to make money in music and/or writing someday.

It could be this but in no way would I ever imply that it's something you should lose. NOthing about you should be lost in order to find a male that is compatible with you. Key word is compatibility. If the ones you are meeting are intimidated, then you just haven't found the right one. I know that's a cliche'd statement but really quite true. Maybe it's the groups you look to to find a mate.

You can't tell me that the majority of guys in their 20's and 30's want their women to be completely submissive little mice? Ok, that was an exaggeration, but you can get what I'm saying.

I know I don't. I'm not in my 20s but that wouldn't change if I were. I mean, sure I want someone who is not overly outspoken and outgoing but that doesn't make for a submissive, meek girl that is like a mouse. I'll give you an example of the girl I am very interested in and I've told her why I like her so much -- it is this: She is intelligent, she is funny, accomodating and caring. She is very pretty yet, in spite of that is in no way conceited about it nor flaunts it like she's "all that" she is respectful and not condescending. She also is in no way submissive to me. She is sometimes submissive and kind of looks up to me but other times it's the opposite and I look to her.. this is all that I see in her.. So you're right it would be ridiculous to say men all or even most men look for women to be under their thumb and controlled by them. You don't want a man like that anyway!

This is probably made even more complicated by the fact that I consider myself more "bigender" than "female". It's the alpha male part of me that's probably terrifying.

That might be. Again in all of this all we can see is your text, we can't hear your voice, see your demeaner or anything other than what you say. It is hard to say what the case may be for you but I think you've been given some good ideas on where to look, or at least I hope this all helps!

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

This may be part of it. Some men, not me... may be intimidated by women that do make the first move. I personally am introverted so it's not necessarily something I dislike. Gets me into trouble sometimes but definitely is not an intimidation.

Well, I don't go out of my way to make the first move…I don't WANT to make the first move, but if I don't nothing will ever happen so I feel forced to.

And even though it may not seem like it, I'm more of an introvert/loner. I spend most of my time alone, mostly by choice. I would like to interact with people a little more (which I will when I finally get a salaried job and/or start a band), but I'm far from "extroverted", in my opinion.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

I dunno, it's hard to say without seeing how you interact. The truth is even by your own standards you may not see how you are perceived. Its hard to say exactly if this is it but it sounds like probably not.

I probably can't tell how I'm perceived since body language and social cues really don't register for me. I think this is because I didn't really interact much with other children when I was younger because I wanted to play in more intellectual and creative ways while the other kids just wanted to run around and scream and play in a more physical way. So, I probably do miss a lot of social cues because they just don't register.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

It could be this but in no way would I ever imply that it's something you should lose. NOthing about you should be lost in order to find a male that is compatible with you. Key word is compatibility. If the ones you are meeting are intimidated, then you just haven't found the right one. I know that's a cliche'd statement but really quite true. Maybe it's the groups you look to to find a mate.

I already know what group I need to look in to find a compatible mate, and that's where I've been looking. I'm now looking at a different age group, hoping older (and generally more mature) guys would be the way to go. Nothing so far. At least I got to the first date this time, right? *sigh*

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

I know I don't. I'm not in my 20s but that wouldn't change if I were. I mean, sure I want someone who is not overly outspoken and outgoing but that doesn't make for a submissive, meek girl that is like a mouse. I'll give you an example of the girl I am very interested in and I've told her why I like her so much -- it is this: She is intelligent, she is funny, accomodating and caring. She is very pretty yet, in spite of that is in no way conceited about it nor flaunts it like she's "all that" she is respectful and not condescending. She also is in no way submissive to me. She is sometimes submissive and kind of looks up to me but other times it's the opposite and I look to her.. this is all that I see in her.. So you're right it would be ridiculous to say men all or even most men look for women to be under their thumb and controlled by them. You don't want a man like that anyway!

Well, I certainly don't flaunt it…I have a hard time finding myself attractive at all, since evidence certainly doesn't point that way. Apparently an attractive girl should have guys hitting on her regularly and get lots of messages online if they're on a dating site. Not me. There's something about my looks that puts them off…I've done one of those picture comparison things (on OkCupid) where people vote either for me or for some other random person on who they perceive is more attractive and I don't think I've ever been over 50%. I don't like those odds.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

That might be. Again in all of this all we can see is your text, we can't hear your voice, see your demeaner or anything other than what you say. It is hard to say what the case may be for you but I think you've been given some good ideas on where to look, or at least I hope this all helps!

I'm afraid it comes down to being myself and being alone (this is after I've already made compromises and made changes to myself and made myself a bit more effeminate) or become what's actually wanted.

Right now, no one is compatible with me. And I don't see that changing unless I change.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

Well, I don't go out of my way to make the first move…I don't WANT to make the first move, but if I don't nothing will ever happen so I feel forced to.

And I'm not saying it's ever a bad thing. Depends on the guy. You should never feel forced. though, it may come off badly if you act when you feel forced to

And even though it may not seem like it, I'm more of an introvert/loner. I spend most of my time alone, mostly by choice. I would like to interact with people a little more (which I will when I finally get a salaried job and/or start a band), but I'm far from "extroverted", in my opinion.

Don't wait for something to happen in order to do what you want to do. If you are waiting for that "perfect moment" like a job that you want or what not, you'll find that nothing, other than the job itself is different except that. Do whatever you need to when it's needed, waiting for happiness is just a chasing after the wind

I probably can't tell how I'm perceived since body language and social cues really don't register for me. I think this is because I didn't really interact much with other children when I was younger because I wanted to play in more intellectual and creative ways while the other kids just wanted to run around and scream and play in a more physical way. So, I probably do miss a lot of social cues because they just don't register.

I know that I too miss social cues. My ex used to get pissed at me for women flirting with me and I'd be like "what are you talking about? She never flirted with me"... genuinely clueless about such things 90% of the time.

I already know what group I need to look in to find a compatible mate, and that's where I've been looking. I'm now looking at a different age group, hoping older (and generally more mature) guys would be the way to go. Nothing so far. At least I got to the first date this time, right? *sigh*

this would assume that we "older" guys are more mature. O.O Boy do we have you fooled! :P But in all seriousness, sure taht's not necessarily a bad thing to do.

Well, I certainly don't flaunt it…I have a hard time finding myself attractive at all, since evidence certainly doesn't point that way. Apparently an attractive girl should have guys hitting on her regularly and get lots of messages online if they're on a dating site. Not me. There's something about my looks that puts them off…I've done one of those picture comparison things (on OkCupid) where people vote either for me or for some other random person on who they perceive is more attractive and I don't think I've ever been over 50%. I don't like those odds.

percentages suck. viewing the outcome of a thing on OkCupid only shows you what that small group or society thinks of you. Not a real number nor anything to go by. Besides, who cares? Many of the people on okCupid are way more superficial anyway and look at pictures to find those they interact with rather than actually looking at the profiles first. So you don't want to go by that at all.

I doubt there is anything that puts the men off by your looks, and those that are, you want nothing to do with, they are superficial and judgemental.

I'm afraid it comes down to being myself and being alone (this is after I've already made compromises and made changes to myself and made myself a bit more effeminate) or become what's actually wanted.

If I were to want to date you and you did this, I'll be honest, I'd be put off by this idea. When I find a girl I want her to be real and herself not soemthing she perceives that I would like. Eventually true colors have to be shown and what do you have at that point when you're with the guy that fell in love with your forced effeminate self?

Right now, no one is compatible with me. And I don't see that changing unless I change.

Changing yourself is ok as long as it has to do with what you re doing, but never YOURSELF YOU ARE who you are. That is what you want a guy to fall in love with, not some creation of someone you thougth you have to be to be attractive (physically, mentally and spiritually) Change your methods, not your personality.

Hope this helps.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

And I'm not saying it's ever a bad thing. Depends on the guy. You should never feel forced. though, it may come off badly if you act when you feel forced to

I can't just sit idly by either and apparently there isn't another way to say "I'm interested" that I would be comfortable with.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

Don't wait for something to happen in order to do what you want to do. If you are waiting for that "perfect moment" like a job that you want or what not, you'll find that nothing, other than the job itself is different except that. Do whatever you need to when it's needed, waiting for happiness is just a chasing after the wind

I guess I should have worded that I am in the process of socializing more/getting a salaried job/getting the job(s) I actually want. So I'm not completely waiting.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

I know that I too miss social cues. My ex used to get pissed at me for women flirting with me and I'd be like "what are you talking about? She never flirted with me"... genuinely clueless about such things 90% of the time.

Yeah, I have to be blatantly told that someone is flirting with me. Or I won't know I'm on a date until afterwards…and then it gets quite awkward.

this would assume that we "older" guys are more mature. O.O Boy do we have you fooled! :P But in all seriousness, sure taht's not necessarily a bad thing to do.[/QUOTE]

Well, they're at least more likely to be more mature. At least compared to guys college-aged, which is who I'm used to.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

percentages suck. viewing the outcome of a thing on OkCupid only shows you what that small group or society thinks of you. Not a real number nor anything to go by. Besides, who cares? Many of the people on okCupid are way more superficial anyway and look at pictures to find those they interact with rather than actually looking at the profiles first. So you don't want to go by that at all.

I doubt there is anything that puts the men off by your looks, and those that are, you want nothing to do with, they are superficial and judgemental.

That's true. In fact, I was just making that argument to my parents about political polls.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

If I were to want to date you and you did this, I'll be honest, I'd be put off by this idea. When I find a girl I want her to be real and herself not soemthing she perceives that I would like. Eventually true colors have to be shown and what do you have at that point when you're with the guy that fell in love with your forced effeminate self?

I just want someone to give me a chance…if I'm completely myself right off, I'm not sure I'll get one. Actually, I'm pretty sure I won't.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

Changing yourself is ok as long as it has to do with what you re doing, but never YOURSELF YOU ARE who you are. That is what you want a guy to fall in love with, not some creation of someone you thougth you have to be to be attractive (physically, mentally and spiritually) Change your methods, not your personality.

Hope this helps.

It helps. I just wish I knew what to do to not be the only single person within the groups of people I spend the most time with. It's awkward when you have a small party with 2-3 couples and one single person.

My methods must just be completely wrong. Apparently, I really am still too scary, annoying, etc.

[healingme4me]

So, this group of couples friends, has no one available for you? What happened to the guy you've been, in contact with?

What does, throwing things, in past, have to do with carrying over, to the present?

Are you physically intimidating?

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

Originally Posted by healingme4me

So, this group of couples friends, has no one available for you? What happened to the guy you've been, in contact with?

What does, throwing things, in past, have to do with carrying over, to the present?

Are you physically intimidating?

Sent from my LG-MS910 using Tapatalk 2

No, they don't have anyone available that I know of. With the guy, he never contacts me first and usually doesn't respond to my texts. I'm just going to wait until I see him again to talk to him. Texting him feels like pulling teeth.

I was just saying that I used to have an anger problem which was why I was probably intimidating in the past, but I think I'm pretty much past that now.

I'm not aware that I'm being physically intimidating. I may be sometimes with my eyes or my body language though, but I don't think that's what you're referring to.

I'd recommend that you relax a bit with interpersonal communications. Just let things flow if you happen to meet someone, etc.? There is no need to prove yourself, as you know. Guys also like a little bit of mystery in a woman...or mystique, if that makes sense. It's not manipulation or submitting. Just try and relax, let your hair down, so to speak?

This is not a criticism, but I think perhaps you may come off as abrasive or aggressive in your communications? Not here, but I was thinking maybe IRL. Just be you. Let others be who they are. No more, no less. I think it will work out fine. =)

I think I'm still pretty mysterious…but I probably come across as aggressive/abrasive. But if I don't pursue the guy, I have zero chance. A guy will NOT pursue me, even if he likes me and I keep my distance.

I guess my next question would be, how to I get over the desire to be with anyone, especially guys? I'd have better luck at winning the lottery!

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

I think I'm still pretty mysterious…but I probably come across as aggressive/abrasive. But if I don't pursue the guy, I have zero chance. A guy will NOT pursue me, even if he likes me and I keep my distance.

I guess my next question would be, how to I get over the desire to be with anyone, especially guys? I'd have better luck at winning the lottery!

well you're not alone in the lottery thing.. >.>

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

well you're not alone in the lottery thing.. >.>

Well, at least you're a nice person and didn't spend most of your life being a d-bag to everyone. Well, I guess I'm assuming a bit, maybe you were a jerk when you were younger too…(joking).

I think a lot of my trouble came from me being confused about both my gender and sexuality for years. Nothing ever really gets clearer either, as I'm not comfortable with experimenting with random people or friends (I don't think any of them are single anyway…). So I almost have to sort of just guess what gender I feel more interested in at the moment and commit to a relationship where I may or may not be able to be really sexually attracted to them. I know that sounds impossible…obviously I should be able to tell if I'm sexually attracted to someone or not without any physical contact, but it seems that I can't.

Also, because of school and fear of coming out in any way, I missed out on at least opportunity to date a girl…and then I wasn't really interested in anybody but guys since then.

So, basically, my point is even if you're with me on the lottery thing, at least you seem to know who you are and what you want. Not only am I playing the lottery, I'm trying to kill a gnat with a dart while blind-folded. Someone's going to get seriously injured. As in, me.

Originally Posted by I.Am.The.End.

Not only am I playing the lottery, I'm trying to kill a gnat with a dart while blind-folded. Someone's going to get seriously injured. As in, me.

throwing boomerang darts, are we? You should try the kind that dont' turn around and fly back at you instead XD

All joking aside, the lottery is the lottery, whether your challenge is with gender attraction or something else. I won't minimize your challenge but know that even if you were solid in knowing what you wanted gender-wise, the lottery still leave a lot to chance. take heart hun, it will happen for you.

Originally Posted by s4ndm4n2006

throwing boomerang darts, are we? You should try the kind that dont' turn around and fly back at you instead XD

All joking aside, the lottery is the lottery, whether your challenge is with gender attraction or something else. I won't minimize your challenge but know that even if you were solid in knowing what you wanted gender-wise, the lottery still leave a lot to chance. take heart hun, it will happen for you.

I wish I at least knew how to raise my chances. Or why other people seem to have much higher chances. Like all those posts complaining that girls have so many guys that would want them that most guys don't stand a chance? Who are these girls and how can I be one of them? I think I even mentioned on one that they should pursue girls who never get attention from guys. They'd definitely have a chance there.